Does black thought matter?

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Scooter
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Re: Does black thought matter?

Post by Scooter »

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MajGenl.Meade
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Re: Does black thought matter?

Post by MajGenl.Meade »

Let me fix that for Scooter:
Only read the correct book (hint: it must be written a by a black person with a PhD because no other black voice is relevant). If you don't read that book, you are an ignorant racist white-supremacist, probably also a Grand High Wizard of the Ku Klux Klan, a persistent offender against young children, cruel to animals, and a thoroughly worthless being that should be exterminated.
File it under: "And so it begins"
For Christianity, by identifying truth with faith, must teach-and, properly understood, does teach-that any interference with the truth is immoral. A Christian with faith has nothing to fear from the facts

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Scooter
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Re: Does black thought matter?

Post by Scooter »

Gob wrote:
Tue Jun 23, 2020 8:55 am
So, you've decided, on no evidence, that she only wrote these things to improve her chance of it getting published, and she did this in order to support no change. Possibly the most patronising thing I've read here. You could at least have the courage to call her an "Aunt Tom" or something.
I'm sure she'll find a constituency, like Candace Owens. Or Diamond & Silk.
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Re: Does black thought matter?

Post by Gob »

I can make up imaginary people to feel superior to too! ;-)
“If you trust in yourself, and believe in your dreams, and follow your star. . . you'll still get beaten by people who spent their time working hard and learning things and weren't so lazy.”

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Scooter
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Re: Does black thought matter?

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I can pretend that something is imaginary in an attempt to deny its validity.
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Re: Does black thought matter?

Post by MajGenl.Meade »

Scooter wrote:
Tue Jun 23, 2020 10:45 am
I can pretend that something is imaginary in an attempt to deny its validity.
And you do. Constantly.
For Christianity, by identifying truth with faith, must teach-and, properly understood, does teach-that any interference with the truth is immoral. A Christian with faith has nothing to fear from the facts

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Re: Does black thought matter?

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https://www.aol.com/article/news/2020/0 ... /24533172/

Another attention-seeker bucks the trend. And boy, he sure was wronged by the police, twice over. Must be some kind of Uncle Tom, eh Scooter, Guin et al?
The 31-year-old said it wasn’t a complicated decision to help another human being. But even some of his close friends wondered if he hesitated because of his previous interactions with a few law enforcement officers.

“No. There is value in every human life. We are all children of God and I can’t imagine just watching anyone burn,” he said. “No matter what other people have done to me, or other officers, I thought, ‘this guy deserves to make it home safely to his family.’”

McLee filed a lawsuit in late 2018 against four Pennsylvania State Police troopers for wrongful arrest after he spent a year in jail related to a March 2016 fight outside an American Legion bar.
For Christianity, by identifying truth with faith, must teach-and, properly understood, does teach-that any interference with the truth is immoral. A Christian with faith has nothing to fear from the facts

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Gob
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Re: Does black thought matter?

Post by Gob »

Scooter wrote:
Tue Jun 23, 2020 10:45 am
I can pretend that something is imaginary in an attempt to deny its validity.
Well, personally, I do not know anyone who posts videos of black people agreeing with them, but won't read books by a black person who has a Phd in some subject. But your friendship group may differ.

Also, comparing an imaginary video to an imaginary book is a bit naff.
“If you trust in yourself, and believe in your dreams, and follow your star. . . you'll still get beaten by people who spent their time working hard and learning things and weren't so lazy.”

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TPFKA@W
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Re: Does black thought matter?

Post by TPFKA@W »

MajGenl.Meade wrote:
Tue Jun 23, 2020 12:10 pm
https://www.aol.com/article/news/2020/0 ... /24533172/

Another attention-seeker bucks the trend. And boy, he sure was wronged by the police, twice over. Must be some kind of Uncle Tom, eh Scooter, Guin et al?
The 31-year-old said it wasn’t a complicated decision to help another human being. But even some of his close friends wondered if he hesitated because of his previous interactions with a few law enforcement officers.

“No. There is value in every human life. We are all children of God and I can’t imagine just watching anyone burn,” he said. “No matter what other people have done to me, or other officers, I thought, ‘this guy deserves to make it home safely to his family.’”


McLee filed a lawsuit in late 2018 against four Pennsylvania State Police troopers for wrongful arrest after he spent a year in jail related to a March 2016 fight outside an American Legion bar.


Screeeeeech racist! asshole! He only seeks attention and white approval white approval! Screeeeech

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Re: Does black thought matter?

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Carmen Carson
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I'm still shaking ... (today's alarming encounter with the UTC police)

After working a 14 hour day full of reopening our new facility, working to interview and hire new people (creating jobs and opportunities), then leaving this evening to take the regular 1.5 mile route from our center to my house. On the way, a guy runs the stop sign, pulls in front of me and we come to a stop side by side. I see him turn left on a road that has closure signs and I proceed ahead.

I notice two UTC police pulling out of my husband's office parking lot (he works at the State Building on campus) and normally I feel safe with campus police around, but this time, I get that feeling in my gut. I know that I am driving our little white VW bug. I know that I look like the everyday black person. I know that no one is technically on campus right now because of the pandemic. I see them pull behind me.

I continue to drive (I'm literally three blocks on the same road as before from my house). I stop at the stop sign on 8th street and Douglas. I now stopped, watching another UTC police SUV make a u-turn in the the middle of 8th street, driving to face me.

Now I know I am being boxed in. I have one police SUV facing me on 8th street and 2 behind my little VW bug.

I keep my cool, knowing that I am divinely loved, guided, and protected, but I feel fear, knowing that I am here in Chattanooga alone right now. Carson was away caring for dad and I'm two blocks away from my house alone.

I proceed to pass my old dorms (UTC place - yeah I'm an Honor's College/ Brock Scholar alumni of UTC too). Actually, I'm cool at this point. I think, "maybe they are heading in the same direction" since normally I do see campus police around our house (we live on campus).

I stop again at University Street and 8th. The SUV's are right on top of me - driving too close - so now I know something is wrong.

I keep going - now one block away - and then they turn on the lights. I immediately turn on my flashers and pull up another 25 yards in front of my neighbor's house and my house. I call my neighbor, John (who is a lawyer and like family) immediately and ask him to come watch since I am being pulled over. John stays on speaker phone and watches from him window, helping me to stay calm.

<Now, when I left my job, I had my teacher cart where you roll all of your stuff down the hall way out to your car and I put my bag in my trunk with the rest of my stuff. That makes it easier to get to when I pull back into the garage.>

They send the black police to my passenger window (I'm sure that was intentional). I lean over and roll it down. He says, "Do you have your license and registration?" I tell him it is in my bag in the trunk. (He looks puzzled)

Then he tells me that "I'm pulling you over because you ran through the stop on 8th and Douglas." I said, "No, I didn't. I stopped completely." He insists on lying and creating a narrative that I ran through the stop sign. (Mind you, that would be impossible due to the fact that his colleague was making a u-turn at that that intersection in the middle of the road). He then says he will be back.

By this time, my other neighbors - who are also action taking allies- step outside of their condos and begin confronting the police about why there 6 police officers surrounding me with 3 SUV's all with their lights on. John keeps assuring me everything is ok and that he is watching. I feel comfort, fear, rage, pain, exhausted, and hurt all in the same moment.

The police offer returns with a sticky notepad and pen, asking me again about my license being in the trunk. I affirm that it is in there. Then he asks for my Name and DOB. I give him that and my UTC ID. I point out my lawyer neighbor who is also on the phone with me and watching them "My lawyer is right there and I live right there". He says, "your lawyer is there?" "Yes."

He leaves and runs my information.

My ally white neighbors continue to demand answers for why I'm being cornered by so many officers (one of which doesn't even know that I'm Carson's wife - he worked with Carson before). I watch all of this in my passenger side mirror. Lights are flashing all around, I'm here in front of my own house on the campus that I attended and the campus that I still serve on being pulled over and accused of something that I did not do. It's a whole spectacle.

I call Carson, my husband (who also works at UTC), on 3 way to tell him that I have been pulled over. He and John both listen and I sit there. The minutes feel like hours as I wait watching the police trying to figure out how to fix this situation they have gotten themselves in. My neighbors are going off on them. John is monitoring them. They have ran my information and see my spotless record and that I am listed as Faculty for UTC.

After what seemed like 15 minutes, the black officer convenes with his colleagues and then returns to my car. He tells me, "I'm going to let you off on a warning. You are faculty?" He then begins to tell me how they were taking precautions since students will be returning soon and so forth (it all was a blur at that point because I knew they had been caught in their own mess and were trying to figure out how to get out of it). Then he said "I'm sorry about that".

UM - who apologize for pulling over someone who actually broke the law? NO ONE. Why would you apologize? Oh, because you realized that I'm not just a random person you were trying to profile on campus. Ok.

He says I'm good to go.
He and his colleagues return to their cars. Two of the six them stay to talk to and deescalate my neighbors. The other four drive off.

I park my car and walk to my neighbors. One meets me on the sidewalk hugging me and making sure I am ok. At this point the adrenaline and coolness is starting to wear off, but I hold it together. I thank her and her friends who were so adamant about standing there to make sure that I was not being mistreated. I saw the one police officer that worked with Carson and said hey, you worked with my husband Antoine. He nervously realized who I was and said he hadn't seen him lately. I tell him how Antoine has had military (army) duty and he has been helping to stay with my dad. I thank my neighbors again and walk away.

I stop by John's house, fighting the tears and trembles to tell him thank you for everything and then I get in my car. I pull around to the garage, unload everything from the trunk and walk in.

My board president (from my new job) randomly texts "Everything ok??" (she also works at UTC) and I tell her about this incident that has left me shaking here in my house alone. She apologizes, offers to help, recommends that. I reach out to another one of my dear friends at UTC and to others on campus. She is infuriated that I had to go through that (she always has my back - literally the best board president ever) and offers to bring me anything I need.

I then reach out to my dear friend and colleague at UTC to tell her what happened as we have had ongoing conversations about rase, privilege, and such lately. She's been doing her own share of work around allyship and had checked on me just yesterday. She immediately responds back, then reaches out to her colleagues, and then calls.

At this point, all adrenaline and collectiveness are gone and I break down. I can't answer calls because I can't talk without crying. I don't want to worry Carson since he is with my dad out of town and cannot be here, so I just let I'm know everything is fine and I'm ok. But really I am shaken to my core. I am seeing the lights flashing. I am feeling the fear that adrenaline had on hold. I am flooded with emotions.

How could this happen on the campus I love, in front of my house? How could this happen on the campus that I have worked at for so many years? How could this happen on the campus that I currently serve on advisory boards for?

It happened because I was profiled. It happened because I was targeted. It happened because someone lied about my actions and then realized who I was. What if I didn't have that faculty ID? What if he continued to persist that his story was true?

I am writing this now - as part of my processing and therapy. I have yet to eat my dinner that I had brought home from work (it's 10:22). My dad called to check in like he always does and I burst into tears telling him about how I got pulled over and cornered by three UTC police SUV's. through my tears I tell him not to let Carson know because I don't want to upset him since he is there.

My dad reminds me that this is part of being black and "at least you are still alive". He's right.

He goes on to say, "They could have lied and tried to take you to jail or something. At least you are home and safe now baby. Stop crying, you're going to be ok".

I have no words for these feelings, but I do say thank you to my neighbors who were determined to stand with me, to John who legally watched over me, to my board chair and my UTC colleague who both surrounded me with love, and to my COO who checked in on me, offer to come by and sit with me tonight.

I'm ok. I'll be ok. I'm still crying and processing, but I'll be good.

I share this to remind you all that this is America. This is the black experience. This is why I worry about my husband driving alone to come home to see me. This is why I've led many conversations with new people (who aren't black) with discussing my husbands 20 years of army service (as it makes us seem like less of a threat as black Americans). This is why our anxiety is through the roof and why many of us, particularly black women, overextend and stress ourselves out, operating at a near perfection mode in most areas of our lives in order to be seen as palpable and to maintain the standards we are held to.

This is why WE ARE TIRED. This is why we kneel. This. is why we will continue to stand. This is why we will continue to show up, call such profiling out, and why I will still show up on my job tomorrow as the badass CEO that I am making a difference for children, staff, parents and creating new opportunities for others.

BUT TONIGHT - I'll cry. I'll lament. I'll try to regain my appetite. I'll pull myself together.

"We now have this light shining in our hearts, but we ourselves are like fragile clay jars containing this great treasure.[ This makes it clear that our great power is from God, not from ourselves.

We are pressed on every side by troubles, but we are not crushed. We are perplexed, but not driven to despair. 9 We are hunted down, but never abandoned by God. We get knocked down, but we are not destroyed. " (2 Cor. 4: 7-9)

Blacklivesmatter is more than a #. It's my reality. Thank you to those who showed up today. #blacklivesmatter #utc #stillwerise  — feeling sad at The University of Tennessee at Chattanooga.
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Gob
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Re: Does black thought matter?

Post by Gob »

A Cambridge academic who tweeted “White lives don’t matter. As white lives” has called on the university to do more to advance the national conversation on race after being subjected to a torrent of abuse.

Dr Priyamvada Gopal, a reader in anglophone and related literature, received death threats and a campaign was launched to have her fired in response to what she described as criticism of systemic white supremacy.

She tweeted on Tuesday: “White lives don’t matter. As white lives” and “Abolish whiteness”, in response to a banner flown over a Premier League football stadium that read “White lives matter Burnley”.

Gopal told the Guardian that her tweets were opposing the concept of whiteness – the societal structure that presumes the superiority of white people – and not attacking white people. But this had been misunderstood by many and used as a tool by others, she said.

When she had said “White lives don’t matter. As white lives,” she had meant their value should be inherent and not linked to ideologies around race, she said. “Whiteness does not qualify someone to have their life matter; the life matters but not the whiteness.”

She added: “You cannot oppose Black Lives Matter with ‘white lives matter’ because they are not comparable. Whiteness is already valued but blackness is not.”

Gopal subsequently shared a number of offensive messages she had received. A petition to have her removed from her post claimed her “statements are racist and hateful and must not be tolerated” by the university.

On Wednesday afternoon, the university tweeted a blanket defence of its academics’ right to free speech, without specifically referencing her case.

https://www.theguardian.com/education/2 ... ge-support
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Re: Does black thought matter?

Post by Bicycle Bill »

THIS ....
On Wednesday afternoon, the university tweeted a blanket defence of its academics’ right to free speech, without specifically referencing her case.
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Yes, I suppose I could agree with you ... but then we'd both be wrong, wouldn't we?

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Re: Does black thought matter?

Post by Gob »

Unfortunately, the University only supports free speech if you are left wing...
Quillette has been unwavering in its support of Noah Carl, a young conservative scholar who was targeted by an outrage mob after getting a research fellowship at St. Edmund’s College, Cambridge. After an “open letter” was circulated by a group of activist academics last December describing Noah’s work as “racist pseudoscience” and calling for an “investigation” into his appointment, we ran an editorial denouncing this witch-hunt. We published supportive comments by Jonathan Haidt, Jeffrey Flier, Cass Sunstein, Tyler Cowan, Jeff McMahan and Peter Singer, and asked people to sign a counter-petition which attracted over 1,400 signatories.

Unfortunately, St. Edmund’s College did the bidding of the protestors, launched two separate investigations and last month terminated Noah Carl’s employment. We ran a follow-up piece, this time criticizing St. Edmund’s cowardly decision, and invited professors and lecturers to put their names to a letter of condemnation. That got over 600 signatures, more than the number of academics who signed the original “open letter.”

Since then, Noah has received widespread support from a variety of sources. The Spectator has taken up his cause, as has Spiked Online, the Daily Telegraph and the Times of London, which ran an editorial in defense of academic freedom:

"One of Mr. Carl’s topics concerns the link between cousin-marriage and electoral fraud among Pakistani and Bangladeshi communities in Britain. A leading critic described this subject as “obviously ethically suspect.” It is not at all obvious why investigating such a link is ethically suspect. It may be there is no such link, but researching the possibility of one is a fitting task for a social scientist. By the logic of Mr. Carl’s critics, The Times’s groundbreaking investigations into the link between Anglo-Pakistani communities and the sexual abuse of children in several northern cities must be denounced as “ethically suspect.”"

https://quillette.com/2019/05/28/noah-c ... rPUrKkU4jI
“If you trust in yourself, and believe in your dreams, and follow your star. . . you'll still get beaten by people who spent their time working hard and learning things and weren't so lazy.”

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Guinevere
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Re: Does black thought matter?

Post by Guinevere »

MajGenl.Meade wrote:
Tue Jun 23, 2020 12:10 pm
https://www.aol.com/article/news/2020/0 ... /24533172/

Another attention-seeker bucks the trend. And boy, he sure was wronged by the police, twice over. Must be some kind of Uncle Tom, eh Scooter, Guin et al?
The 31-year-old said it wasn’t a complicated decision to help another human being. But even some of his close friends wondered if he hesitated because of his previous interactions with a few law enforcement officers.

“No. There is value in every human life. We are all children of God and I can’t imagine just watching anyone burn,” he said. “No matter what other people have done to me, or other officers, I thought, ‘this guy deserves to make it home safely to his family.’”

McLee filed a lawsuit in late 2018 against four Pennsylvania State Police troopers for wrongful arrest after he spent a year in jail related to a March 2016 fight outside an American Legion bar.
Kindly refrain from ascribing thoughts or comments to me that I have never ever expressed (like referring to someone as an “uncle tom.”). Strawman much?
“I ask no favor for my sex. All I ask of our brethren is that they take their feet off our necks.” ~ Ruth Bader Ginsburg, paraphrasing Sarah Moore Grimké

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Re: Does black thought matter?

Post by MajGenl.Meade »

Guinevere wrote:
Mon Jun 22, 2020 3:05 am
Scooter wrote:
Mon Jun 22, 2020 2:27 am
It's like when debates over same-sex marriage were going on, and conservatives would trot out the odd gay person to say he didn't believe that same-sex couples needed legal marriage, as if that should have decided the issue. It's used to give an excuse to the majority to ignore the oppression of the minority.
Exactly.
Guinevere wrote:Kindly refrain from ascribing thoughts or comments to me that I have never ever expressed (like referring to someone as an “uncle tom.”). Strawman much?
I think a more cautious reading is that I did not "ascribe" either thoughts or comments to you. I asked a question. Is the black dude (who was grossly mistreated by police; that's a fact) an "uncle Tom" because he saved a cop's life rather than burn down his local Wendy's?

The accusation of Auntie Tomism appears to be leveled by Scooter (of course) at a black woman who provided cogent reasons for opposing the organization called BLM (but very much NOT opposing the idea that BL's do M) for its socialist agenda and I rather thought you agreed with him. If in fact you think her position is reasonable, then I misunderstood your comment "exactly" above and below [or abover, depending on which way you order posts).

Am I in fact using this gentleman's story to excuse my oppression of the minority?
For Christianity, by identifying truth with faith, must teach-and, properly understood, does teach-that any interference with the truth is immoral. A Christian with faith has nothing to fear from the facts

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Re: Does black thought matter?

Post by TPFKA@W »

Kindly refrain from ascribing thoughts or comments to me that I have never ever expressed (like referring to someone as an “uncle tom.”). Strawman much?
Rather than taking umbrage and running, you might share your enlightened thoughts on the topic.

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Re: Does black thought matter?

Post by Guinevere »

My agreeing with Scooter was to his very specific example — what has become a common argument technique in the land of polarization and what I will call “whataboutism.” It is how Gob framed his argument here: I’m pointing to an African American woman who doesn’t agree with BLM, therefore my negative feeling about BLM are justified and cannot be racist or discriminatory because a black woman agrees with me.

I never said anything about the woman herself, her comments, or if they somehow make her an “uncle Tom.” Never said anything about Gob, either. So no Meade, you could not be more wrong and your argument above is an entire pile of dung (and whats more, you know it too).

I don’t ascribe to the theory that you’re with me or you’re agin me. People and ideas are usually a lot more complex than that, the world is not (forgive me) black and white. I make my living out of all of those shades of grey.

I do believe all we caucasians benefit from some degree of white privilege and there is unconscious bias in all of us (and I include myself in “all of us”). We all come at it from whatever our specific experiences may be.

Agree, disagree with BLM. It is a vehicle, one of many, and not the end all and be all. But does anyone really think there isn’t a deep vein of racism and prejudice and discrimination in this country? If you think we’re all fine, then we vehemently disagree. If you agree with me in concept, then lets talk about what it will take to fix the problem, and the many different ways to accomplish that, and perhaps stop calling each other names because we have different ideas and experiences.
“I ask no favor for my sex. All I ask of our brethren is that they take their feet off our necks.” ~ Ruth Bader Ginsburg, paraphrasing Sarah Moore Grimké

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Does black thought matter?

Post by RayThom »

Uniontown, PA? I bet most of the town folk are saying "he's a good N-"

I'm surprised that the responding officers didn't first taze, shoot, and beat McLee (in that order) before probing this incident.

Maybe the UPD officers don't have qualified immunity.
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Re: Does black thought matter?

Post by rubato »

Gob wrote:
Tue Jun 23, 2020 10:30 am
I can make up imaginary people to feel superior to too! ;-)

We've noticed.

Thank you.

yrs,
rubato

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Gob
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Re: Does black thought matter?

Post by Gob »

Guinevere wrote:
Sat Jun 27, 2020 5:15 pm
My agreeing with Scooter was to his very specific example — what has become a common argument technique in the land of polarization and what I will call “whataboutism.” It is how Gob framed his argument here: I’m pointing to an African American woman who doesn’t agree with BLM, therefore my negative feeling about BLM are justified and cannot be racist or discriminatory because a black woman agrees with me.

Oh please! I posted the article with absolutely no comment. So any whataboutism, or framing of the argument, is purely in your imagination.
“If you trust in yourself, and believe in your dreams, and follow your star. . . you'll still get beaten by people who spent their time working hard and learning things and weren't so lazy.”

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