Where are all the "states' rights" folks?

[Scooter]

Nothing to say about Trump sending out his Gestapo goons into the streets of U.S. cities?

[Darren]

Nothing to say about Trump sending out his Gestapo goons into the streets of U.S. cities?

Are you talking about the federal agents that are part of the task force created by executive order after the murder of the federal guard?

Is it the states' responsibility to protect federal property from damage?

I think we can agree that we have the right to peacefully assemble and protest. Do you believe damaging property is allowed by that right?

[liberty]

https://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/fed ... e-70970016
OAKLAND, Calif. -- A federal law enforcement officer in California was shot and killed and another wounded while providing security at the U.S. courthouse in Oakland amid one of the increasingly violent protests unfolding around the country.
“When someone targets a police officer or a police station with an intention to do harm and intimidate — that is an act of domestic terrorism,” Department of Homeland Security Acting Deputy Secretary Ken Cuccinelli said at a Washington, D.C., news conference Saturday.

The Oakland shooting occurred after a vehicle pulled up outside the Ronald V. Dellums Federal Building at about 9:45 p.m. Friday. Someone opened fire at two contract security officers who worked for Homeland Security's Federal Protective Service, killing one and critically wounding the other, authorities said.

The officers protect federal court houses as part of their regular duties. DHS officials said the two officers were monitoring the Oakland protest over the police killing of George Floyd in Minnesota.
The identities of the officers have not been released.

A suspect hasn’t been named and it wasn’t immediately known whether authorities have determined if the shooting was connected with the protest.

Gov. Gavin Newsom called for patience and perspective as the federal investigation plays out.
“No one should rush to conflate this heinous act with the protests last night,” he said in a statement.
Federal officials said they're seeing more threats and assaults against law enforcement officers at protests and they will step up security measures to protect them.

“There are currently threats by some to attack police stations and federal buildings," Cuccinelli said. “That violence not only won’t be tolerated, we are also committed to ensuring that it won’t succeed anywhere."

Newsom said authorities in California are closely monitoring violent extremist organizations.

“In California and across the country, there are indications that violent actors may be attempting to use these protests for their own agendas," he said. “To those who seek to exploit Californians’ pain to sow chaos and destruction, you are not welcome.”
The protest in downtown Oakland began peacefully but spiraled into chaos late into the night. Some demonstrators smashed windows, set fires and threw objects at officers. Police said 13 officers were injured.
The federal building's glass doors were smashed and the front entrance was sprayed with anti-police graffiti.
California Sen. Dianne Feinstein condemned the violence.

“We have to know right from wrong and not use the terrible tragedy in Minneapolis to perpetrate more violence." she said “There’s never an excuse to shoot and kill a security guard, destroy businesses or injure innocent people."

[ex-khobar Andy]

I haven't seen the feds rushing in to protect judges in NJ. There was an actual attack on a family member of course; it seems that the killer may have had Trumpian tendencies. FBI is investigating of course (she is a federal judge) but I don't think we have seen unidentifiable uniformed federal agents.

[Scooter]

Nothing to say about Trump sending out his Gestapo goons into the streets of U.S. cities?

Are you talking about the federal agents that are part of the task force created by executive order after the murder of the federal guard?

I'm talking about federal goon squads wearing nothing to identify themselves as law enforcement, picking people up off the street, not on federal property, without warrant or probable cause, and whisking them away in unmarked vehicles to secret locations.

I think we can agree that federal agents have the right to protect federal property. Do you believe kidnapping people off the streets (because that's what it is, absent a warrant or probable cause) is allowed by that right?

[Big RR]

Even further Scooter, I am not certain federal agents have any right to arrest persons except for violation of federal crimes (or probable cause to believe a federal statute has been violated) or if the state has asked the feds in for help. Rounding up away from the federal buildings people is likely to be illegal. Does anyone know for certain? I yearn for the good old days when the republicans stood up for states rights and a small central government.

Andy--from newspaper accounts, I believe the FBI was involved in the investigation from the outset (which was likely because Salas is a federal judge and now because there are likely interstate entanglements).

[eddieq]

Don't worry, I'm sure Attorney General Barr will be on top of making sure none of their rights are violated /sarcasm

[Darren]

I haven't seen the feds rushing in to protect judges in NJ. There was an actual attack on a family member of course; it seems that the killer may have had Trumpian tendencies. FBI is investigating of course (she is a federal judge) but I don't think we have seen unidentifiable uniformed federal agents.

He was supposedly a volunteer for Trump in 2016. Epstein was a "volunteer" too at Mar a Lago and got his ass banned.

The killer was fucked in the head. The more you read the stranger it gets. It's thought he murdered another mens' rights lawyer. The murderer worked in Russia and married a Russian who he later kicked out.

I tend to not reserve judgement on men who marry foreign women. I suspect many are looking for a compliant servant. Recently I saw a young Filipino woman in a Walmart with a 50ish man. She was smiling and giggling. He was somber. That was the first Filipino I'd seen in the area. Was she a mail order bride?

Back to the murderer, the federal judge had the case against Deutsche Bank for allowing Epstein to violate the banks policies including reporting requirements based on the amount of the transaction. Epstein's lawyer asked how much he could withdraw w/o triggering reporting. Was there a quid pro quo as inducement for someone at the bank?

Feel free to jump to your own conclusions.

[Darren]

Nothing to say about Trump sending out his Gestapo goons into the streets of U.S. cities?

Are you talking about the federal agents that are part of the task force created by executive order after the murder of the federal guard?

I'm talking about federal goon squads wearing nothing to identify themselves as law enforcement, picking people up off the street, not on federal property, without warrant or probable cause, and whisking them away in unmarked vehicles to secret locations.

I think we can agree that federal agents have the right to protect federal property. Do you believe kidnapping people off the streets (because that's what it is, absent a warrant or probable cause) is allowed by that right?

They say ignorance of the law is no excuse. Ignorance in other areas seems to be A OK for you.

When I've checked I've seen the federal agents wearing clothing clearly marked police. If you've read Liberty's post you have the info needed to confirm everything.

As they say you're welcome to your own opinion. The facts remain the same for all.

[ex-khobar Andy]

Per Darren:

Recently I saw a young Filipino woman in a Walmart with a 50ish man.

Was he a Filipino? How do you know she was? Was she wearing a sign? (And BTW the word you are looking for is Filipina. You're welcome.) I think we should be told.

I tend to not reserve judgement on men who marry foreign women.

OK I'll stop accusing you of reserving judgment. I always thought you were the shy, reticent type who tended not to share his opinions with others until he had had the opportunity for sober reflection. Mea culpa, mea maxima culpa.

[liberty]

What a load of crap, the federal government has a right to protect federal property if not what was the big deal about Fort Sumter. They especially have a right to do it if the state won’t do it. True the federal government has no direct power over the states but that does not prevent them from doing what the state should do. What hypocrisy, since when does the left care about the Tenth Amendment or any other safeguard of liberty for that matter?

[MajGenl.Meade]

You are totally wrong. Well, not totally- you ain't that good.

Everyone here acknowledges that the Feds protect Fed property.

What's happening is that the Feds are zooming around the city illegally arresting and carrying off people who are NOT attacking (or even close to) Fed property

Get some help reading

[Big RR]

but that does not prevent them from doing what the state should do.

Where the hell does that right arise? For the most part the federal government has no righ to enforce state laws unelss the state asks them. Fort Sumter--sure they defended federal property against assault; Manassas, not so much--this was an act of war to quell a rebellion. Do you honestly think a president should have some sort of unilateral power to impose his will on the states? I clearly do not. There are extraordinary situations where federal law enforcement in states may be justified (such as enforcing federal court orders), but otherwise that power does not, and should not, exist absent valid laws enacted by Congress. Do you really want the president's fiats to be the law of the land? Talk about a load of crap.

absolutely MEde.

[Darren]

Per Darren:

Recently I saw a young Filipino woman in a Walmart with a 50ish man.

Was he a Filipino? How do you know she was? Was she wearing a sign? (And BTW the word you are looking for is Filipina. You're welcome.) I think we should be told.

I tend to not reserve judgement on men who marry foreign women.

OK I'll stop accusing you of reserving judgment. I always thought you were the shy, reticent type who tended not to share his opinions with others until he had had the opportunity for sober reflection. Mea culpa, mea maxima culpa.

Andy, you, I and everyone alive is prejudiced.

I've already mentioned the gold standard for understanding prejudice which was written over fifty years ago and has not been superseded. Prejudice is innate in the largest sense. I base mine, in this case about marrying foreign woman, on observation. Is it always true? It can't be.

The man was not of Asian origin.

[Darren]

You are totally wrong. Well, not totally- you ain't that good.

Everyone here acknowledges that the Feds protect Fed property.

What's happening is that the Feds are zooming around the city illegally arresting and carrying off people who are NOT attacking (or even close to) Fed property

Get some help reading

Prove the arrests are illegal.

Suspects have long been arrested and questioned by law enforcement. Until they start arresting and hauling them off by the bus load, I'm not convinced there's a problem worth pissing yourself over.

Why haven't the mayors imposed a curfew?

[Long Run]

What's happening is that the Feds are zooming around the city illegally arresting and carrying off people who are NOT attacking (or even close to) Fed property

You are totally wrong. Well, not totally, you ain't that good. The Feds are not "zooming around the city". All of the action is happening in a few square city blocks. The Feds are not "illegally arresting" anyone, though I guess the lawsuits will sort that out. What they are actually doing is observing and spotting the criminal behavior in the midst of the protestors. When a suspect leaves the crowd, the Feds then remove the suspect and themselves from the mosh pit, detain the suspect like any other suspect, question and either arrest or release based on the questioning. It would be irresponsible for them to put on target on themselves by driving in marked cars or to be in the crowd with fully identifying clothing (the officers directly protecting the federal buildings do have on their identifying clothing). This is not happening everywhere, just here, where the feckless city leadership, now as in 2018 and Occupy, goes from genuflecting to the rioters/protestors and wagging a finger at the police department, to hands-off, to being upset at the toddlers' behavior and giving them a stern talking to.

fwiw, downtown used to be a safe and enjoyable place at night. No one goes down there anymore at night unless they are part of the "festivities". During the day it is pretty much normal, taking COVID into account. Though the plywood store fronts were good for the lumber business but don't really help sales that much. Nothing shows support for racial justice like ransacking minority owned businesses.

[Big RR]

I disagree LR; federal authorities are only entitled to detain someone if they have a reasonable basis to think they have committed a crime which is against federal law. They are not police and do not have general policing powers to enforce state laws unless the state specifically invited them in and they received those powers on account of it. Under federal law, the federal officers are permitted to protect federal property and to arrest those violating federal law, but not to conduct large scale sweeps. And face it, if they wanted to protect the buildings, identifying themselves as law enforcement and forming visible perimeters around them would do far more than the round ups by people in plain clothes. But that's not what the great pumpkinhead wants; he wants to have a way to spout off and engage in a pissing contest (talk about toddler behavior).

By all means local and state law enforcement should step in for protection, but if some are dissatisfied, this does not give the feds additional powers. We are, after all, a nation of laws, not men.

[Joe Guy]

I tend to not reserve judgement on men who marry foreign women.

I guess you don't like Trump very much.

[Darren]

I guess you don't like Trump very much.

I was put off by Trump's self promotion long before he ran for president. After doing some checking, he passed. Since he's assumed office, I mostly approve of his actions.

Locker room talk doesn't sway me. I've met enough sho nuff horn dogs so that most times, I'm not surprised. The one who out of nowhere asked me, "Did you ever notice redheads are always wet?" as we walked up mucho flights of stairs on a construction site was a surprise.

I did the same background check with Obama and found the documents he either wrote or approved while he was in the Illinois Senate were C material at best on a high school level. Same with his article for Vanity Fair but a bit more polished. His opus for the Harvard Law Review was poor. I was not surprised when he used Teleprompters extensively and came across as almost incoherent elsewhere.

After reading about Harvard under James Conant and his changes for improvement and now what it's become, I have little respect for a Harvard degree. It's meaningless to me and the person has to prove themselves as capable not wave the sheepskin and expect a free pass.

[ex-khobar Andy]

"Locker room talk doesn't sway me. I've met enough sho nuff horn dogs so that most times, I'm not surprised. The one who out of nowhere asked me, "Did you ever notice redheads are always wet?" as we walked up mucho flights of stairs on a construction site was a surprise."

I'd guess I've been in locker rooms (rugby, cricket, track and field, squash, badminton, scuba training, football, gym, racquetball, ice hockey, canoe training - there must be a few I've forgotten) approximately 2 x per week on average during the past 60 years (let's call it 6000 times to save you having to do the arithmetic) and I don't think I've heard that kind of talk - his Billy Bush Access Hollywood stuff - since I and the guys around me were about 14.