Where are all the "states' rights" folks?

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Darren
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Re: Where are all the "states' rights" folks?

Post by Darren »

ex-khobar Andy wrote:
Wed Jul 22, 2020 9:05 pm
"Locker room talk doesn't sway me. I've met enough sho nuff horn dogs so that most times, I'm not surprised. The one who out of nowhere asked me, "Did you ever notice redheads are always wet?" as we walked up mucho flights of stairs on a construction site was a surprise."
I'd guess I've been in locker rooms (rugby, cricket, track and field, squash, badminton, scuba training, football, gym, racquetball, ice hockey, canoe training - there must be a few I've forgotten) approximately 2 x per week on average during the past 60 years (let's call it 6000 times to save you having to do the arithmetic) and I don't think I've heard that kind of talk - his Billy Bush Access Hollywood stuff - since I and the guys around me were about 14.
There was some of that back in HS. There was far more of it on construction sites or in corporate offices by middle aged men. Those were almost always WTF moments. I don't count the Navy experience. That's more like Ripley's.
Thank you RBG wherever you are!

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MajGenl.Meade
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Re: Where are all the "states' rights" folks?

Post by MajGenl.Meade »

The administration has, we should hope, acted sensibly. Along with most Americans, I'm sick of the violence, whether from police/military or street thugs and anarchist opportunists.
President Trump announced Wednesday a surge of federal law enforcement into Chicago and other cities as part of a crime-fighting initiative that officials say is different than the government’s controversial actions in Portland, Ore. . .

. . .The department is under scrutiny for its alleged actions in Portland, which residents and local officials say has included officers in military uniform — but without identification — patrolling the streets and unlawfully detaining protesters, claims that the agency has denied. The city has seen more than 50 days of demonstrations against police violence prompted by the killing of George Floyd. . .

. . . At a press conference on Wednesday, [Chicago Mayor Lori] Lightfoot concurred that Operation Legend appears to be different than Portland, and noted that the federal agents will be supervised by John Lausch, the U.S. Attorney for the Northern District of Illinois.

“Federal agents who are here in Chicago have been here for decades,” she told reporters. “We routinely work in partnership with them. They know the city and they live here.”

Lightfoot said that the initiative will send agents, not uniformed law enforcement like in Portland, who will be aiding criminal investigations in the city. But she also seemed skeptical of the effort.
For Christianity, by identifying truth with faith, must teach-and, properly understood, does teach-that any interference with the truth is immoral. A Christian with faith has nothing to fear from the facts

Big RR
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Re: Where are all the "states' rights" folks?

Post by Big RR »

Meade--I'm sick of the violence as well, but that is not an excuse for a president to exceed his Constitutional authority and act like a petty dictator. Just because he doesn't think someone else is doing his/her job is no reason to substitute his judgment for that of the local and state elected authorities. "I had to act because they would not" is the excuse of every despot.

ex-khobar Andy
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Re: Where are all the "states' rights" folks?

Post by ex-khobar Andy »

MajGenl.Meade wrote:
Thu Jul 23, 2020 5:34 am
The administration has, we should hope, acted sensibly. Seriously? Why would they start now?

Along with most Americans, I'm sick of the violence, whether from police/military or street thugs and anarchist opportunists. I don't think you'll see any disagreement here. It's unfortunately true that 'thugs and opportunists' take advantage of whatever circumstances arise in order to advance their own interests. So they hide behind a legal smokescreen - e.g., a legitimate demonstration - to carry our their nihilistic agendas. In the same way thuggish police officers hide behind the laudable efforts of most LEOs, and thuggish businessmen manage to conceal their operations behind laws which are put in place to advance the idea that a functioning economy has a public purpose. For example the bankruptcy laws.

Darren
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Re: Where are all the "states' rights" folks?

Post by Darren »

Big RR wrote:
Thu Jul 23, 2020 1:46 pm
Meade--I'm sick of the violence as well, but that is not an excuse for a president to exceed his Constitutional authority and act like a petty dictator. Just because he doesn't think someone else is doing his/her job is no reason to substitute his judgment for that of the local and state elected authorities. "I had to act because they would not" is the excuse of every despot.
Can you provide proof the President exceeded his constitutional authority? Perhaps the lawyers can weigh in too.
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Big RR
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Re: Where are all the "states' rights" folks?

Post by Big RR »

Can you show where such authority originates? Hint: it's not just because the president claims he has that authority.

Darren
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Re: Where are all the "states' rights" folks?

Post by Darren »

Big RR wrote:
Thu Jul 23, 2020 2:56 pm
Can you show where such authority originates? Hint: it's not just because the president claims he has that authority.
Yes. Still waiting for lawyers to chime in.
Thank you RBG wherever you are!

Big RR
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Re: Where are all the "states' rights" folks?

Post by Big RR »

Yes? If you can, please do so.

As I have said several times, federal officers can protect federal property and enforce federal laws, they can enforce the orders of federal courts to ensure compliance with federal laws; they cannot enforce state laws absent the invitation of the state to participate no matter who is president and what (s)he says. That is not a power granted to the executive under the law or Constitution. So please, show us where this power arises from.

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Long Run
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Re: Where are all the "states' rights" folks?

Post by Long Run »

Based on the statements of federal officials (who know what they are talking about -- as opposed to you know who), they are enforcing federal law, detaining and questioning people reasonably suspected of destroying federal property and attacking federal officers, and other federal crimes. Obviously, even when he has a reasonable policy, Trump can and usually does make things worse with his rhetoric and trolling. You really have to look past him to the career feds and consider their actions on the merits -- that is what the federal judge will do.

Big RR
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Re: Where are all the "states' rights" folks?

Post by Big RR »

Maybe, maybe not; it depends on what their instructions are. I don't think we should just ignore the chief executive who is their boss. Perhaps they have shown restraint to comply with the law, but we will have to see. At this time, there is not sufficient information to come up with any detemrination, so all we can rely on is what the boss says.

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Scooter
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Re: Where are all the "states' rights" folks?

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Long Run wrote:
Thu Jul 23, 2020 5:05 pm
Based on the statements of federal officials (who know what they are talking about -- as opposed to you know who), they are enforcing federal law, detaining and questioning people reasonably suspected of destroying federal property and attacking federal officers, and other federal crimes.
There have been numerous incidents reported of those being kidnapped off the streets being released the second they express awareness of their constitutional rights. Which proves that these Gestapo thugs know that what they are doing is illegal.
"If you don't have a seat at the table, you're on the menu."

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MajGenl.Meade
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Re: Where are all the "states' rights" folks?

Post by MajGenl.Meade »

These men, identified by the Department of Homeland Security as members of a U.S. Marshals Special Operations Group and a Border Patrol Tactical Unit, have been trained in antiterrorism tactics and deployed in Portland with the sniper rifles and full battle rattle of an invading army. When not emerging on most nights to drive back protesters (including Portland Mayor Ted Wheeler, who was gassed Wednesday night), they have been filmed roving the downtown area in unmarked rental vans, leaping out to snatch individual protesters away for questioning.


https://www.aol.com/article/news/2020/0 ... /24570182/
For Christianity, by identifying truth with faith, must teach-and, properly understood, does teach-that any interference with the truth is immoral. A Christian with faith has nothing to fear from the facts

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Gob
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Re: Where are all the "states' rights" folks?

Post by Gob »

Scooter wrote:
Thu Jul 23, 2020 7:13 pm
There have been numerous incidents reported of those being kidnapped off the streets being released the second they express awareness of their constitutional rights. Which proves that these Gestapo thugs know that what they are doing is illegal.
There have been numerous incidents reported of people being abducted by aliens and anally probed. Doesn't mean it happened though.
“If you trust in yourself, and believe in your dreams, and follow your star. . . you'll still get beaten by people who spent their time working hard and learning things and weren't so lazy.”

ex-khobar Andy
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Re: Where are all the "states' rights" folks?

Post by ex-khobar Andy »

That was an excellent piece you linked, Meade.

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Scooter
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Re: Where are all the "states' rights" folks?

Post by Scooter »

Gob wrote:
Fri Jul 24, 2020 8:40 am
There have been numerous incidents reported of people being abducted by aliens and anally probed. Doesn't mean it happened though.
Except that there isn't any video of people being abducted by aliens.
"If you don't have a seat at the table, you're on the menu."

-- Author unknown

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Gob
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Re: Where are all the "states' rights" folks?

Post by Gob »

Videos of people being abducted? Ok, I can believe that, got links?
“If you trust in yourself, and believe in your dreams, and follow your star. . . you'll still get beaten by people who spent their time working hard and learning things and weren't so lazy.”

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MajGenl.Meade
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Re: Where are all the "states' rights" folks?

Post by MajGenl.Meade »

Gob wrote:
Fri Jul 24, 2020 12:57 pm
Videos of people being abducted? Ok, I can believe that, got links?
They're missing
For Christianity, by identifying truth with faith, must teach-and, properly understood, does teach-that any interference with the truth is immoral. A Christian with faith has nothing to fear from the facts

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Long Run
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Re: Where are all the "states' rights" folks?

Post by Long Run »

It is worth keeping mind that the only people down there are far left, farther left, and the even farther left anarchists. Any accounts by these activists and the criminals in their midst should be considered with their extreme bias in mind. While videos can show one angle for a few moments, they invariably miss the big picture and are often misleading. And seriously, if you're going to play in the sand box, you gotta expect to get some sand kicked on you.

fwiw, downtown looks terrible. There have been thousands of sheets of plywood put up to protect windows; pretty much a whole forest cut down to protect businesses, many minority owned. Many businesses have put up metal fences as added protection. Graffiti everywhere. Garbage strewn all about. Add in the hundreds of homeless tents, a near complete absence of regular people either working at home or idled, and what was once a vibrant and mostly successful downtown, looks like hell.

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Scooter
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Re: Where are all the "states' rights" folks?

Post by Scooter »

The Gestapo are free to document all of their interactions using body cams in order to capture "the big picture", if they believe everything they are doing to be aboveboard. One can only speculate why they would choose not to,..
"If you don't have a seat at the table, you're on the menu."

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Big RR
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Re: Where are all the "states' rights" folks?

Post by Big RR »

LR--That still doesn't give the president or the administration the right to violate federal law and decide to enforce the state and local laws the state/local authorities will not. Again, they can protect federal property, but this does not give them carte blanche to round up and interrogate protestors. Yes, we don't know what they have done in any detail, so all we can do is point to the rantings of their boss. and this does not bode well for believing their management has given them any training re the limited scope of their authority. Trump says he's sending them in because the governors and mayors are not "doing their jobs"; that is not something within the scope of his, or any president's, authority and is just another step along the road to eroaion of personal rights and totalitarianism. Do you honestly want that?

You don't like what your local and state elected officials are doing? Then take it up with them; don't encourage the feds to get involved on their own initiative. That's far too dangerous, especially given the current ass at the helm and those who surround him.

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