I had no idea how much Alex Jones' idiocy helped Drumpf

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MGMcAnick
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I had no idea how much Alex Jones' idiocy helped Drumpf

Post by MGMcAnick »

I have never watched Info Wars, and don't plan to. It is scary that there are people who watch and believe the vile crap that he puts out. I realize we have freedom of the press, but that guy needs to be locked up in the looney bin.
This streamable program appeared on PBS this evening. I hope the link works. If you have 54 minutes to spare, it is worth watching. https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/frontline/film ... onspiracy/
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BoSoxGal
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Re: I had no idea how much Alex Jones' idiocy helped Drumpf

Post by BoSoxGal »

A few days ago I watched the movie Parkland, then went down a little rabbit hole of documentaries on JFK’s assassination. Found out Alex Jones has been a conspiracy theorist on that event for decades, long before he rose to his own ‘fame’ related to Sandy Hook and other more recent events.

One of the documentaries I watched on Amazon that was really well done and focused on tackling the conspiracy theorists around the issue was Conspiracy Theorists Lie. It’s really good - it covers the forensic evidence that all supports the lone whack job reality and then deconstructs conspiracy theories. The best part of the film is when he engages in conversation with a bunch of conspiracy theorists at the 50th anniversary commemoration in Dallas. He gets into the psychology of conspiracy theorists and it’s pretty interesting.
For me, it is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring.
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Re: I had no idea how much Alex Jones' idiocy helped Drumpf

Post by ex-khobar Andy »

Yes, I watched that Frontline. I believe in freedom of speech and the traditional limit - shouting "Fire!" into a crowded theater when there is no fire - applies to Alex Jones. He really is a vile piece of shit but that is constitutionally protected. He's a dangerous vile piece of shit and, in my belief, does not have that protection.

I'll look for that Amazon thing BSG mentioned. After I have had a chance to see Rosamund Pike in Radioactive, Marie Curie's story. Rosamund Pike can do no wrong.

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Re: I had no idea how much Alex Jones' idiocy helped Drumpf

Post by Econoline »

Speaking of the Kennedy assassination....I just listened to this for the first time.



(I'm not sure yet just what I think of it, except that it's the first thing I've heard from Dylan for a long time in which (1) I didn't hate the sound of his voice, and (b) I could actually understand all the lyrics. If you haven't heard it, it's well worth a listen.)
People who are wrong are just as sure they're right as people who are right. The only difference is, they're wrong.
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Re: I had no idea how much Alex Jones' idiocy helped Drumpf

Post by BoSoxGal »

I couldn’t get past the first two stanzas - clearly he’s another conspiracy nutter.


I honestly can’t quite grasp the mentality of people drawn to these conspiracy theories. There is abundant and fully sound forensic evidence that Oswald alone was responsible for the killing of JFK, and abundant evidence that the only federal agency culpability involved was the ultimately horrific negligence of the Secret Service agents accompanying the motorcade that day - a number of whom were operating with only a few hours’ sleep having stayed up until the wee hours drinking and partying.

The truth of that is awful enough, and should have been more strenuously emphasized for public consumption than was done in the Warren Report. They deserved the shame and perhaps the agency would’ve improved its culture more - a culture which still leads to scandals of the same sort, if with less horrible results. During the Obama years they had scandals with agents on overseas assignments and also had incidents where intruders got all the way to the East Room of the White House before capture, and another where windows in the WH residence were shot at and bullet damage remained undiscovered for days - luckily the Obamas weren’t at home at the time. It seems the SS suffers from the same arrogance and overconfidence that plagues law enforcement agencies in general.

All the other assassinations and assassination attempts of American presidents and civil rights leaders have been carried out by lone nutters, or at best in the case of Booth there were conspirators who were also nutters. The idea that JFK’s was somehow a vast conspiracy involving the CIA and LBJ and GW Bush et al. is just ludicrous. Damn Jack Ruby for killing Oswald and giving rise to all that stupid BS. - and what irony that JFK, who railed against right wing extremism and misinformation, should have become central to the greatest conspiracy in the history of the country.

Or at least until 9/11; don’t get me started on the nutters who think that was an inside job. The truth of our intelligence failures is horrible enough.
For me, it is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring.
~ Carl Sagan

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Re: I had no idea how much Alex Jones' idiocy helped Drumpf

Post by MajGenl.Meade »

It was a dark day in Dallas, November '63
A day that will live on in infamy
President Kennedy was a-ridin' high
Good day to be livin' and a good day to die
Being led to the slaughter like a sacrificial lamb
He said, "Wait a minute, boys, you know who I am?"
"Of course we do, we know who you are!"
Then they blew off his head while he was still in the car
Shot down like a dog in broad daylight
Was a matter of timing and the timing was right
You got unpaid debts, we've come to collect
We're gonna kill you with hatred, without any respect
We'll mock you and shock you and we'll put it in your face
We've already got someone here to take your place
The day they blew out the brains of the king
Thousands were watching, no one saw a thing
It happened so quickly, so quick, by surprise
Right there in front of everyone's eyes
Greatest magic trick ever under the sun
Perfectly executed, skillfully done
Wolfman, oh wolfman, oh wolfman howl
Rub-a-dub-dub, it's a murder most foul

Hush, little children, you'll understand
The Beatles are comin', they're gonna hold your hand
Slide down the banister, go get your coat
Ferry 'cross the Mersey and go for the throat
There's three bums comin' all dressed in rags
Pick up the pieces and lower the flags
I'm goin' to Woodstock, it's the Aquarian Age
Then I'll go to Altamont and sit near the stage
Put your head out the window, let the good times roll
There's a party going on behind the Grassy Knoll
Stack up the bricks, pour the cement
Don't say Dallas don't love you, Mr. President
Put your foot in the tank and then step on the gas
Try to make it to the triple underpass
Blackface singer, whiteface clown
Better not show your faces after the sun goes down
Up in the red light district, they've got cop on the beat
Living in a nightmare on Elm Street
When you're down on Deep Ellum, put your money in your shoe
Don't ask what your country can do for you
Cash on the ballot, money to burn
Dealey Plaza, make a left-hand turn
I'm going down to the crossroads, gonna flag a ride
The place where faith, hope, and charity lie
Shoot him while he runs, boy, shoot him while you can
See if you can shoot the invisible man
Goodbye, Charlie! Goodbye, Uncle Sam!
Frankly, Miss Scarlett, I don't give a damn
What is the truth, and where did it go?
Ask Oswald and Ruby, they oughta know
"Shut your mouth," said a wise old owl
Business is business, and it's a murder most foul

Tommy, can you hear me? I'm the Acid Queen
I'm riding in a long, black Lincoln limousine
Ridin' in the backseat next to my wife
Headed straight on in to the afterlife
I'm leaning to the left, I got my head in her lap
Hold on, I've been led into some kind of a trap
Where we ask no quarter, and no quarter do we give
We're right down the street, from the street where you live
They mutilated his body and they took out his brain
What more could they do? They piled on the pain
But his soul was not there where it was supposed to be at
For the last fifty years they've been searchin' for that
Freedom, oh freedom, freedom over me
I hate to tell you, mister, but only dead men are free
Send me some lovin', then tell me no lie
Throw the gun in the gutter and walk on by
Wake up, little Susie, let's go for a drive
Cross the Trinity River, let's keep hope alive
Turn the radio on, don't touch the dials
Parkland hospital, only six more miles
You got me dizzy, Miss Lizzy, you filled me with lead
That magic bullet of yours has gone to my head
I'm just a patsy like Patsy Cline
Never shot anyone from in front or behind
I've blood in my eye, got blood in my ear
I'm never gonna make it to the new frontier
Zapruder's film I seen night before
Seen it thirty-three times, maybe more
It's vile and deceitful, it's cruel and it's mean
Ugliest thing that you ever have seen
They killed him once and they killed him twice
Killed him like a human sacrifice
The day that they killed him, someone said to me, "Son
The age of the Antichrist has just only begun"
Air Force One comin' in through the gate
Johnson sworn in at 2:38
Let me know when you decide to throw in the towel
It is what it is, and it's murder most foul

What's new, pussycat? What'd I say?
I said the soul of a nation been torn away
And it's beginning to go into a slow decay
And that it's thirty-six hours past Judgment Day
Wolfman Jack, he's speaking in tongues
He's going on and on at the top of his lungs
Play me a song, Mr. Wolfman Jack
Play it for me in my long Cadillac
Play me that "Only the Good Die Young"
Take me to the place Tom Dooley was hung
Play "St. James Infirmary" and the Court of King James
If you want to remember, you better write down the names
Play Etta James, too, play "I'd Rather Go Blind"
Play it for the man with the telepathic mind
Play John Lee Hooker, play "Scratch My Back"
Play it for that strip club owner named Jack
Guitar Slim going down slow
Play it for me and for Marilyn Monroe

Play "Please Don't Let Me Be Misunderstood"
Play it for the First Lady, she ain't feeling any good
Play Don Henley, play Glenn Frey
Take it to the limit and let it go by
Play it for Carl Wilson, too
Looking far, far away down Gower Avenue
Play tragedy, play "Twilight Time"
Take me back to Tulsa to the scene of the crime
Play another one and "Another One Bites the Dust"
Play "The Old Rugged Cross" and "In God We Trust"
Ride the pink horse down that long, lonesome road
Stand there and wait for his head to explode
Play "Mystery Train" for Mr. Mystery
The man who fell down dead like a rootless tree
Play it for the reverend, play it for the pastor
Play it for the dog that got no master
Play Oscar Peterson, play Stan Getz
Play "Blue Sky," play Dickey Betts
Play Art Pepper, Thelonious Monk
Charlie Parker and all that junk
All that junk and "All That Jazz"
Play something for the Birdman of Alcatraz
Play Buster Keaton, play Harold Lloyd
Play Bugsy Siegel, play Pretty Boy Floyd
Play the numbers, play the odds
Play "Cry Me A River" for the Lord of the gods
Play Number nine, play Number six
Play it for Lindsey and Stevie Nicks
Play Nat King Cole, play "Nature Boy"
Play "Down In The Boondocks" for Terry Malloy
Play "It Happened One Night" and "One Night of Sin"
There's twelve million souls that are listening in
Play "Merchant of Venice", play "Merchants of Death"
Play "Stella by Starlight" for Lady Macbeth
Don't worry, Mr. President, help's on the way
Your brothers are comin', there'll be hell to pay
Brothers? What brothers? What's this about hell?
Tell them, "We're waiting, keep coming," we'll get them as well
Love Field is where his plane touched down
But it never did get back up off the ground
Was a hard act to follow, second to none
They killed him on the altar of the rising sun
Play "Misty" for me and "That Old Devil Moon"
Play "Anything Goes" and "Memphis in June"
Play "Lonely At the Top" and "Lonely Are the Brave"
Play it for Houdini spinning around his grave
Play Jelly Roll Morton, play "Lucille"
Play "Deep In a Dream", and play "Driving Wheel"
Play "Moonlight Sonata" in F-sharp
And "A Key to the Highway" for the king on the harp
Play "Marching Through Georgia" and "Dumbarton's Drums"
Play darkness and death will come when it comes
Play "Love Me Or Leave Me" by the great Bud Powell
Play "The Blood-stained Banner", play "Murder Most Foul"
For Christianity, by identifying truth with faith, must teach-and, properly understood, does teach-that any interference with the truth is immoral. A Christian with faith has nothing to fear from the facts

Big RR
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Re: I had no idea how much Alex Jones' idiocy helped Drumpf

Post by Big RR »

BSG--I think most those drawn to conspiracy theories are people (mostly men) who feel they are smarter than everyone else but are still marginalized. The conspiracy theory gives them the cover of saying they are not taken in by the propaganda of the government (or the man, or "THEM", or ...) but know much better and aren't afraid to say it. It's a way of getting some modicum of self respect. Now not all conspiracy theorists are as completely marginalized, but most get some sense of self-validation from believing theiey are among the few "enlightened' people who ca clearly see through the bullshit.

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Re: I had no idea how much Alex Jones' idiocy helped Drumpf

Post by Econoline »

BSG - That's what I thought too, after the first few minutes, but after listening to the whole thing (almost 17 minutes! :o ) I don't think so. He does incorporate some elements of the conspiracy theorists, but the song (poem? whatever it is) seems to be mostly about the cultural aftermath and long-term effects of the murder, how it in many ways shaped a whole generation's worldview — and of course the proliferation of conspiracy theories and conspiracy theorists is undeniably a part of that cultural aftermath.
People who are wrong are just as sure they're right as people who are right. The only difference is, they're wrong.
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BoSoxGal
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Re: I had no idea how much Alex Jones' idiocy helped Drumpf

Post by BoSoxGal »

Well I will have to give it a full listen, then.

I have always been a bit fixated with the JFK assassination, since the anniversary falls the day before my birthday from a very young age I was very attuned to the media coverage of commemorations of the event that would happen all around that time of year. Additionally, my mother was deeply affected by the event (as I know the great majority of the citizenry were, whether they loved Kennedy or not) and her melancholy over it was something I absorbed from a very early age.

Anyway, whenever I watch anything about it and/or see the Zapruder film I am just not able to keep myself from crying, even 57 years on it is just so awful and heartbreaking. And no I don’t think Kennedy was perfect and I know there was a darker side to Camelot. But I do agree that his assassination marked the beginning of the end of something in the character of the United States of America that just has never been restored. The killings of Malcolm X and MLK, Jr. and RFK only cemented that damage. I couldn’t help thinking while watching Parkland the other day that our country really started the slide to where we are now when all those terrible things happened in the 60s and early 70s. I feel like the 80s and Reaganism set the stage for the kind of openly ugly politics that began thriving in the 90s and beyond with the advent of propaganda television and radio ala FOX, Limbaugh, Jones, et al.

Anyway I know John Lewis told us never to give in to despair, but I don’t have much hope for this country’s future. I am glad I am not young right now. If Trump somehow steals the upcoming election we are lost, but even if Biden wins - it is not a bright road ahead.
For me, it is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring.
~ Carl Sagan

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Joe Guy
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Re: I had no idea how much Alex Jones' idiocy helped Drumpf

Post by Joe Guy »

It's Dylan's American Pie.

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Econoline
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Re: I had no idea how much Alex Jones' idiocy helped Drumpf

Post by Econoline »

American Pie was Don McLean's Desolation Row.
People who are wrong are just as sure they're right as people who are right. The only difference is, they're wrong.
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Re: I had no idea how much Alex Jones' idiocy helped Drumpf

Post by BoSoxGal »

I’m trying to find a video link for this show, but in the meantime, sharing the transcript. This was a CNN Special Report which aired July 20 and was hosted by Fareed Zakaria - titled Donald Trump’s Conspiracy Theories. It’s even more chilling than the Frontline program that focuses primarily on Alex Jones.

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/ ... sr.01.html

The damage being done to our democracy by this internet fueled conspiracy movement - including QAnon - legitimized by this president can’t be overstated. I truly fear the aftermath of November 3rd, whatever the outcome. Trump has been setting the stage for years for millions of people to reject the outcome if he loses.
For me, it is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring.
~ Carl Sagan

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Re: I had no idea how much Alex Jones' idiocy helped Drumpf

Post by liberty »

BoSoxGal wrote:
Wed Jul 29, 2020 11:09 pm
I’m trying to find a video link for this show, but in the meantime, sharing the transcript. This was a CNN Special Report which aired July 20 and was hosted by Fareed Zakaria - titled Donald Trump’s Conspiracy Theories. It’s even more chilling than the Frontline program that focuses primarily on Alex Jones.

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/ ... sr.01.html

The damage being done to our democracy by this internet fueled conspiracy movement - including QAnon - legitimized by this president can’t be overstated. I truly fear the aftermath of November 3rd, whatever the outcome. Trump has been setting the stage for years for millions of people to reject the outcome if he loses.
That is why the integrity of the election is so important. Not one person who is not authorized to vote should vote, and not one person who is entitled to vote should be prevented from voting. And everyone who votes should have to show a state identification card before voting to prove their right to vote.
I expected to be placed in an air force combat position such as security police, forward air control, pararescue or E.O.D. I would have liked dog handler. I had heard about the dog Nemo and was highly impressed. “SFB” is sad I didn’t end up in E.O.D.

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Re: I had no idea how much Alex Jones' idiocy helped Drumpf

Post by MajGenl.Meade »

BoSoxGal wrote:
Wed Jul 29, 2020 8:53 pm
I do agree that his assassination marked the beginning of the end of something in the character of the United States of America that just has never been restored. The killings of Malcolm X and MLK, Jr. and RFK only cemented that damage.
That is so
For Christianity, by identifying truth with faith, must teach-and, properly understood, does teach-that any interference with the truth is immoral. A Christian with faith has nothing to fear from the facts

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Re: I had no idea how much Alex Jones' idiocy helped Drumpf

Post by Big RR »

While the turbulence of the 60s did produce some unwanted fallout (and some of the violence was heartbreaking), I also think it produced a lot of positive results. Face it, civil rights made giant strides, we ended an unpopular war the politicians were hellbent on keeping, we even forced and old school, and somewhat popular, politician to resign the presidency. The sad thing is all that progress was rolled back before the 70s ended and Reagan was elected--Ford pardoned Nixon, adding to genuine feelings of hopelessness, and much of the progress was rolled back little by little. Then Carter (someone who I think was a very good man but a poor president) squandered all the remaining good will democrats had, giving way to 12 years of Reagan and Bush Sr and a shift in the legislature. In light of this, Trump is no surprise. Most of the progress has been squandered, making the sacrifices of the 60s pretty much pointless.

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Re: I had no idea how much Alex Jones' idiocy helped Drumpf

Post by BoSoxGal »

We also can’t forget that the great majority of folks who protested and pushed for fundamental change in the 60s became money grubber establishment types who just wanted their own comfort - that stalls things out a whole lot when it comes to social change. If there had been a lot more folks with the lifelong character and commitment of John Lewis, we might’ve kept the fight happening. No judgments; it’s human nature and I’m sure most of the young folks in the street right now will be too busy getting and spending in a decade to care anymore about actual social justice work. So we beat on . . .
For me, it is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring.
~ Carl Sagan

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Re: I had no idea how much Alex Jones' idiocy helped Drumpf

Post by Big RR »

That's true BSG, but then I think the disillusionment with the change progress affected that as well. People figured that, if they cannot change the system, they will use it to their advantage. Honestly, though, I seriously thought in the 60s/70s (as I'm sure many others did) that substantive change was possible; only to have those hopes dashed. I understand the disillusionment, but basically think the only change that is lasting is on a local level, often leaving the elected leaders out; it's cynical to be sure, but then who isn't cynical about government?

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