DONALD TRUMP HAS COVID19!!

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Gob
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Re: DONALD TRUMP HAS COVID19!!

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Bicycle Bill
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Re: DONALD TRUMP HAS COVID19!!

Post by Bicycle Bill »

One thing to keep in mind ... even if Trump gets hammered at the polls and is a one-term president, he does get to keep that honorific of "Mr. President" and all the other perks, like free Secret Service protection for life and access to pretty much the same medical care and everything else he has now — other than the at-call helicopters and motorcades, Air Force One, and the fancy digs at 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue.  And when he finally DOES croak, the USPS (assuming they're still around) will more-than-likely follow standard custom and protocol and issue a commemorative stamp with his picture on it ASAP, just like they've done on the death of every other president/former president since JFK.  (yes, even Tricky Dicky got a stamp!)

Here's hoping they just don't print too many of them, or they'll be lying around the warehouse for years.
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Big RR
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Re: DONALD TRUMP HAS COVID19!!

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ore-than-likely follow standard custom and protocol and issue a commemorative stamp with his picture on it ASAP
But people will be confused as to which side to spit on.

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Re: DONALD TRUMP HAS COVID19!!

Post by Big RR »

Much as it pains me to agree with anything Trump says, I do agree we should not be "afraid" of contracting Covid 19; indeed, we should not. The vast majority of people who contract Covid will not get very sick or become hospitalized or die; they will get mildly to moderately sick for a short number of days and recover without any continuing problems. Of course, some will fare far worse, and this should not be ignored.

Fear accomplishes little and can often paralyze us or lead us to stupid and rash actions (Trump's strategy as a politician counts on this). However, this does not mean we should avoid taking reasonable precautions to protect ourselves and others, that is still the prudent thing to do. I am pretty sure Trump would disagree with that statement, but just as I do not "fear" dying or being maimed in a car accident, realizing it is unlikely to occur, I will also take reasonably precautions, driving safely in a safer car and wearing a seat belt..., to minimize this risk even further. I won't fear, but I will act intelligently--and this is something I don't think Trump has any idea of how to do.

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BoSoxGal
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Re: DONALD TRUMP HAS COVID19!!

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Big RR wrote:
Wed Oct 07, 2020 1:59 pm
The vast majority of people who contract Covid will not get very sick or become hospitalized or die; they will get mildly to moderately sick for a short number of days and recover without any continuing problems.
You simply cannot know that; nobody on earth knows that yet. We don’t know this virus and how it is going to effect people years after initial exposure.
For me, it is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring.
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Re: DONALD TRUMP HAS COVID19!!

Post by Big RR »

Perhaps, but even if that is true (and I have not seen evidence that it is), fear accomplishes nothing useful. And FWIW, we have seen many viral diseases similar to Covid 19 that do not have these delayed effects, so we do have some ideas of what aftermath is likely.

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BoSoxGal
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Re: DONALD TRUMP HAS COVID19!!

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Big RR wrote:
Wed Oct 07, 2020 2:32 pm
Perhaps, but even if that is true (and I have not seen evidence that it is),
What evidence do you need to see to prove that you cannot possibly know today how covid19 exposure will effect the exposed decades on? That’s a fundamental fact. I’m puzzled by your response which seems nonsensical.

Measles and chicken pox kill decades after initial and even mild illness. Plenty of viruses and bacteria can debilitate and kill decades after initial exposure/infection. The short term evidence of this virus, only with us since late 2019, is that even the mildly effected have organ tissue damage and other ill effects that tend toward permanency in a large number of patients being followed up. The medical journals are full of this data.

Nobody is asking people to cower in a corner, but very diligent caution to avoid exposure/infection is definitely called for especially where there in many cases seems to be no rhyme or reason as to why some very healthy young people get terribly ill and die. It may be statistically a small number, but if it’s your son or daughter it is a devastating tragedy. So a healthy dose of fear is not unwarranted.

I just bristle at any language that seems to minimize the seriousness of this pandemic. Including the excess deaths our toll is likely 300,000+ already and we are only just starting into the first full length respiratory illness season with covid in the population. January is likely to be a very bleak time death toll wise.
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Jarlaxle
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Re: DONALD TRUMP HAS COVID19!!

Post by Jarlaxle »

dales wrote:
Wed Oct 07, 2020 6:42 am
Jarl doesn't care.

He only wants us to......REOPEN THE DAMN COUNTRY!

Because over 200,000 people have died and that's apparently not enough.
I get it. You want to crater the economy as long as it gets Trump out of office. You care not at all how many lives are ruined. You care not at all that hundreds of doctors were calling the lockdown a mass casualty incident 4 months ago. You care not at all that Larry Correia's wife could not get her breast cancer treated. You care for nothing except orange man bad.

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Re: DONALD TRUMP HAS COVID19!!

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BSG--I have not minimized the seriousness, but I have not exaggerated it either. As I have said, it should be taken seriously, and prudent public health measures are definitely indicated. As for the post infection effects, time will tell; no sense arguing about them until we see.

As for fear, I see nothing healthy about it. Taking the threat seriously, showing concern for it, all are perfectly useful. But as for fear, I am with FDR.

ETA: Jarl--Pretty telling that the Article mentioned the Association of American Physicians and Surgeons, a pretty well known right wing reactionary group; I recall hearing about it during the 60s and it doesn't appear it has changed. I don't have time to do the research, but Wiki presents a few quotes:

"In 1966, The New York Times described AAPS as an "ultra-right-wing... political-economic rather than a medical group," and said some of its leaders were members of the John Birch Society."[2]

In 2002, AAPS said that its members included Ron Paul and John Cooksey. Ron Paul's son, Rand Paul, was a member for over two decades until his election to the U.S. Senate.[3] ".

Paul and Cooksey are members? Hardly a physicians association; I'm sure there are a number of libertarian physicians, but this artcle appears to be based as much or more in laissez faire captialism than medicine. And the mention of the AAPS corroborates this.
Last edited by Big RR on Wed Oct 07, 2020 7:42 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: DONALD TRUMP HAS COVID19!!

Post by Big RR »

Face it Jarl, look at the paper; in a discussion of restrictive hospital visitation policies, a member states: "How many cases of COVID-19 are prevented by these practices? “Zero,” Dr. Orient says. But the “ loss of patient morale, loss of oversight of care, especially at night are incalculable.”

Face it, how ridiculous is that statement; it's clear isolation policies clearly prevent communicable disease transmission; to deny this is at best disingenuous, and, more likely, outright lies. Sure, you could discuss whether the costs discussed at the end are worth savings realized in preventing that transmission, but I find it impossible to believe a medical doctor would argue lockdown and isolation does not prevent transmission of contagious disease; not only do the restrictive visitation policies protect patients, it protects visitors as well. Maybe she has a doctorate in some unrelated area (a DD?), or any honorary doctorate?

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BoSoxGal
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Re: DONALD TRUMP HAS COVID19!!

Post by BoSoxGal »

BigRR I didn’t post any article? Not sure what all that was even about.

I’m going to go with the public health officials and my own doctors and reject your more casual attitude about this deadly viral pandemic. We’ll agree to disagree.
For me, it is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring.
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ex-khobar Andy
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Re: DONALD TRUMP HAS COVID19!!

Post by ex-khobar Andy »

Jarlaxle wrote:
Wed Oct 07, 2020 5:50 am
Econoline wrote:
Tue Oct 06, 2020 11:07 pm
Image
The fact he had metastasized stage 4 colon and liver cancer, of course, had NOTHING to do with his death. No, PERISH THE THOUGHT!.
He had pretty good doctors who brought him past the cancer. But they couldn't help him defeat COVID. You seem to be using this sequence of events as some sort of argument that COVID ain't that bad, Jarl: your logic escapes me.

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Re: DONALD TRUMP HAS COVID19!!

Post by Big RR »

BoSoxGal wrote:
Wed Oct 07, 2020 6:16 pm
BigRR I didn’t post any article? Not sure what all that was even about.

I’m going to go with the public health officials and my own doctors and reject your more casual attitude about this deadly viral pandemic. We’ll agree to disagree.
Sorry, the mention of the paper was in response to Jarl's post which did include a link to an paper (I've amended the response to make that certain).

And, let's agree to disagree; public health officials and medical people can disagree, and so can we. But please don't confuse my approach (which you characterize as "more casual") as being indicative of my being dismissive of the danger posed. Regardless of the specifics, this is a public health crisis which must be taken seriously and addressed.

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Joe Guy
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Re: DONALD TRUMP HAS COVID19!!

Post by Joe Guy »

I'm trying to remember something. Too bad Lord Jim isn't here. After Ronald Reagan was shot, did he say, "Don't be afraid of bullets?".

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dales
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Re: DONALD TRUMP HAS COVID19!!

Post by dales »

No, if I recall he hoped that all the doctors were republicans.

Your collective inability to acknowledge this obvious truth makes you all look like fools.


yrs,
rubato

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Joe Guy
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Re: DONALD TRUMP HAS COVID19!!

Post by Joe Guy »

dales wrote:
Wed Oct 07, 2020 8:39 pm
No, if I recall he hoped that all the doctors were republicans.
I hope all Trump's doctors are democrats.

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BoSoxGal
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Re: DONALD TRUMP HAS COVID19!!

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Speaking of LJ, I think he might’ve posted this here (he’d become quite fond of Randy Rainbow).

For me, it is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring.
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ex-khobar Andy
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Re: DONALD TRUMP HAS COVID19!!

Post by ex-khobar Andy »

From a CNN piece about Trump's return to the WH and the Oval office.
Any aide who comes near Trump is required to don protective garb, according to a person familiar with the matter. It has given the White House residence the feeling of a sci-fi movie, one person said, as aides, staff and Secret Service personnel who need to come near Trump suit up to protect themselves.
And
Indeed, preparations had been made for Trump's eventual return to the Oval Office, including positioning a so-called "isolation cart" stocked with yellow medical gowns, respirator masks and plastic goggles required for visitors just outside the office doors near where Trump's assistants sit.
I've never been trained on PPE in a medical context, but in hazmat procedures, which must be similar. On a hazwaste site you want to protect yourself from dust, vapors and aerosols and contact with soil and water. So depending on the level of toxics anticipated, you have some sort of mask - maybe a respirator - coverall, bootees, gloves etc. In really dangerous situations you could be in a moonsuit with SCBA. So while you are on the site within the red zone you are protected from nasties.

The fun part is when you come off the site. The assumption is that the outside of your PPE is covered in shit of all sorts while you are safe inside. What you do not do is just take it off and toss it in a bin. There is a designated doffing area and maybe even a shower you go through to get to the locker room where your street clothes are located. The PPE itself is treated as haz waste and discarded accordingly. So I want to know: you go into the Oval Office in full PPE - gown, masks, goggles, gloves etc. What do you do when you come out?

My guess is that you doff in the corridor near the cubicles where all the assistants sit. And expose them.

Some here have relevant experience and I'd like to hear what normal practice is in a hospital setting.

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Bicycle Bill
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Re: DONALD TRUMP HAS COVID19!!

Post by Bicycle Bill »

Big RR wrote:
Wed Oct 07, 2020 1:31 pm
ore-than-likely follow standard custom and protocol and issue a commemorative stamp with his picture on it ASAP
But people will be confused as to which side to spit on.
That's why they make 'em self-adhesive nowadays.
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Gob
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Re: DONALD TRUMP HAS COVID19!!

Post by Gob »

“I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer. Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me. And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path. Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.”
“If you trust in yourself, and believe in your dreams, and follow your star. . . you'll still get beaten by people who spent their time working hard and learning things and weren't so lazy.”

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