Whatever will he do to occupy his time now?

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Bicycle Bill
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Re: Whatever will he do to occupy his time now?

Post by Bicycle Bill »

Gob wrote:
Tue Jan 12, 2021 8:32 am
German Chancellor Angela Merkel has hit out at Twitter’s decision to permanently ban President Trump from the social media platforming, insisting that rules relating to freedom of speech should be made by lawmakers, not private corporate companies.

A spokesperson for the outgoing German leader told reporters at a press conference in Berlin: “The fundamental right to freedom of opinion is a fundamental right of elementary importance, and this fundamental right can be interfered with, but through the law and within the framework defined by the legislature, not according to the decision of the management of social media platforms.

“From this point of view, the Chancellor considers it problematic that the accounts of the US president have been permanently blocked.”


https://foxhole.news/2021/01/12/trump-f ... Hi-wwcglnM
Me and Ange on the same side, whatever next...
As we said before, Gob, Trump is free to put his message out to whomever he wants.  He just can't use Jack Dorsey's PA system (Twitter) to do so, any more than he could walk up to the stage at a Jimmy Buffett concert and demand to be given unrestricted use of the microphone there either.  

And you know something else?  There were at least 42 other presidents before him who ALSO couldn't use Twitter, or Facebook, or the internet, and still got their message out.

Lastly, when your message is nothing but whinging about how put-upon you are and how everybody hates you and you think you got a bad break and how your so-called friends and followers should lie, cheat, and intimidate other people until you get your way, maybe it's not a message that even needs to be heard, no matter HOW it gets put out.
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Gob
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Re: Whatever will he do to occupy his time now?

Post by Gob »

Bicycle Bill wrote:
Tue Jan 12, 2021 9:17 am

As we said before, Gob, Trump is free to put his message out to whomever he wants.  He just can't use Jack Dorsey's PA system (Twitter) to do so, any more than he could walk up to the stage at a Jimmy Buffett concert and demand to be given unrestricted use of the microphone there either.  

And you know something else?  There were at least 42 other presidents before him who ALSO couldn't use Twitter, or Facebook, or the internet, and still got their message out.

Lastly, when your message is nothing but whinging about how put-upon you are and how everybody hates you and you think you got a bad break and how your so-called friends and followers should lie, cheat, and intimidate other people until you get your way, maybe it's not a message that even needs to be heard, no matter HOW it gets put out.
Not mine, or Merkel's points at all Bill. Try reading again...
“If you trust in yourself, and believe in your dreams, and follow your star. . . you'll still get beaten by people who spent their time working hard and learning things and weren't so lazy.”

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Gob
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Re: Whatever will he do to occupy his time now?

Post by Gob »

As an aside;
The man who tweeted this in June 2018: 'Our stance against Israel is the same stance we have always taken. Israel is a malignant cancerous tumour in the West Asian region that has to be removed and eradicated: it is possible and it will happen.'

Khamenei is self-evidently a world leader using Twitter not just to incite violence against a whole country and its 8.8 million people, but to have it and them 'eradicated'.

He also made a direct threat against Americans for the killing of Iran's military supremo General Soleimani a year ago, tweeting on December 16, 2020: 'Those who ordered the murder of General Soleimani as well as those who carried this out shall be punished. This revenge will certainly happen at the right time.'

That threat has not been deleted, presumably meaning Twitter doesn't consider that it contravenes its policies.

Several days ago, the Chinese Embassy in the U.S. tweeted an outrageous defence of China's appalling genocidal abuse of Uighur Muslims.

It read: 'Study shows that in the process of eradicating extremism, the minds of Uygur [sic] women in Xinjiang were emancipated and gender equality and reproductive health were promoted, making them no longer baby-making machines. They are more confident and independent.'

The truth is that over a million Uighur Muslims have been incarcerated in concentration camps over the past few years and the women inmates have been subjected to a vile programme of forced sterilisation.

Initially, and shockingly, Twitter said the tweet didn't violate its policies. Then, under pressure, it decided it did and replaced it with a message saying: 'This Tweet violated the Twitter Rules.'

But the Chinese Embassy's account has not been permanently banned for endorsing genocide.

Neither have accounts belonging to Venezuelan dictator Nicolás Maduro or Saudi Arabia's King Salman bin Abdulaziz Al Saud – both of whose many human rights abuses make Trump look like a choirboy.
“If you trust in yourself, and believe in your dreams, and follow your star. . . you'll still get beaten by people who spent their time working hard and learning things and weren't so lazy.”

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Guinevere
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Re: Whatever will he do to occupy his time now?

Post by Guinevere »

Gob wrote:
Tue Jan 12, 2021 8:32 am
German Chancellor Angela Merkel has hit out at Twitter’s decision to permanently ban President Trump from the social media platforming, insisting that rules relating to freedom of speech should be made by lawmakers, not private corporate companies.

A spokesperson for the outgoing German leader told reporters at a press conference in Berlin: “The fundamental right to freedom of opinion is a fundamental right of elementary importance, and this fundamental right can be interfered with, but through the law and within the framework defined by the legislature, not according to the decision of the management of social media platforms.

“From this point of view, the Chancellor considers it problematic that the accounts of the US president have been permanently blocked.”

https://foxhole.news/2021/01/12/trump-f ... Hi-wwcglnM
Me and Ange on the same side, whatever next...

Ange doesn’t understand the First Amendment, or it’s limits. I’m perfectly fine with Twitter’s action.
“I ask no favor for my sex. All I ask of our brethren is that they take their feet off our necks.” ~ Ruth Bader Ginsburg, paraphrasing Sarah Moore Grimké

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Gob
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Re: Whatever will he do to occupy his time now?

Post by Gob »

Twitter is international, so your 1 st amendment rules do not apply in Germany.
“If you trust in yourself, and believe in your dreams, and follow your star. . . you'll still get beaten by people who spent their time working hard and learning things and weren't so lazy.”

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Guinevere
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Re: Whatever will he do to occupy his time now?

Post by Guinevere »

It’s a US company, taking action concerning a US account. The rules in Germany don’t apply.
“I ask no favor for my sex. All I ask of our brethren is that they take their feet off our necks.” ~ Ruth Bader Ginsburg, paraphrasing Sarah Moore Grimké

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BoSoxGal
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Re: Whatever will he do to occupy his time now?

Post by BoSoxGal »

Merkel’s comments are a bit puzzling to me as free speech in Germany is very much less free than in America. Her domestic terrorists carry the Confederate flag because carrying the Nazi flag gets you a fast trip to prison.

And yes, Twitter isn’t the government. Getting kicked off Twitter for being obnoxious is like getting 86’d from the local pub.
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BoSoxGal
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Re: Whatever will he do to occupy his time now?

Post by BoSoxGal »

For me, it is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring.
~ Carl Sagan

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Gob
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Re: Whatever will he do to occupy his time now?

Post by Gob »

Guinevere wrote:
Tue Jan 12, 2021 12:04 pm
It’s a US company, taking action concerning a US account. The rules in Germany don’t apply.
Fair point. But again, not really the point I was making about non-government controlled censorship.
“If you trust in yourself, and believe in your dreams, and follow your star. . . you'll still get beaten by people who spent their time working hard and learning things and weren't so lazy.”

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Bicycle Bill
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Re: Whatever will he do to occupy his time now?

Post by Bicycle Bill »

Gob wrote:
Tue Jan 12, 2021 10:50 am
Not mine, or Merkel's points at all Bill. Try reading again...
I did read it.  And the point I keep coming back to is that "freedom of speech" means that no government entity may, without good cause, restrict a person's right to their opinions and the free expression of same.

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Kanye West also has freedom of speech.  Does that make what he did when he took the microphone out of Taylor Swift's hand and started spouting off about how Beyoncé's video was better at the MTV VMAs in 2009 OK too?  I don't think so.  Would the award ceremony organizers have been within their rights to kill the mike and boot him out of the theater?  You bet your ever-loving arse they would — and in fact, he was shown the door immediately afterwards.

Trump's presence on Twitter is pretty much the same thing.  He's expecting someone else — in this case, Twitter and other PRIVATELY-OWNED social media sites — to provide him, at THEIR expense, a personal 'bully pulpit' to use whenever and however he feels like.  And that just ain't right, no matter what Ms. Merkel has to say about it.
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Crackpot
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Re: Whatever will he do to occupy his time now?

Post by Crackpot »

I don’t see Merkel giving Neo-Nazis ANY airtime. (I believe that’s illegal over there)
Okay... There's all kinds of things wrong with what you just said.

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BoSoxGal
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Re: Whatever will he do to occupy his time now?

Post by BoSoxGal »

Crackpot wrote:
Tue Jan 12, 2021 3:51 pm
I don’t see Merkel giving Neo-Nazis ANY airtime. (I believe that’s illegal over there)
Yes, as I mentioned above, display of the Nazi flag or other Nazi symbols is forbidden by Germany’s law against anti-constitutional imagery, including on social media. Exceptions only for art & educational purposes.

Here’s an article discussing Germany’s law:
Germany's confusing rules on swastikas and Nazi symbols

Again, this is why the German neo-Nazi movement has long embraced the flag of the Southern Confederacy, which also stands for white supremacy.
For me, it is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring.
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Sue U
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Re: Whatever will he do to occupy his time now?

Post by Sue U »

Gob wrote:
Tue Jan 12, 2021 1:05 pm
Guinevere wrote:
Tue Jan 12, 2021 12:04 pm
It’s a US company, taking action concerning a US account. The rules in Germany don’t apply.
Fair point. But again, not really the point I was making about non-government controlled censorship.
The fact is, whoever ultimately controls a social media platform controls a social media platform, whether it be the government or a private business. And whoever controls the social media platform can ultimately control what is and is not posted there. Whether the rules for what is and is not acceptable are made by a governmental entity (ultimately subject to political control through an electoral process) or by a business owner or corporate board, there are going to be rules (a/k/a "censorship" to those aggrieved by the rules). Whether you favor a government-run or a privately-run platform largely depends on your view of the government's role in media and socio-politico-cultural life in general.

If your philosophy is that government should stay out of all matters of expression to the greatest extent possible, then you don't want the government to be making decisions about what is "acceptable" content on a social media site. And if you're also a capitalist, then you would want social media sites to be private businesses so that the Invisible Hand of the Market (and legal liability) can separate the wheat from the chaff.

If your philosophy is that government should provide a digital public square for the expression of opinion, then you have to decide not only who controls its operation and evolution and how, but whether any restriction on content can be imposed, in what manner, to what extent, using what principles. I can't imagine there could be a governmental public "free expression" website that would permit organizing for insurrection, terrorism or other criminal purpose, or to spread mis/disinformation about public issues. So who's going to monitor it and how? How much of a bureaucracy are you going to want to build to keep tabs on what people are talking about? And do you really want that information centralized in government databases?
GAH!

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Gob
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Re: Whatever will he do to occupy his time now?

Post by Gob »

Well said Sue. It's very much a modern philosophical/ethical problem.
“If you trust in yourself, and believe in your dreams, and follow your star. . . you'll still get beaten by people who spent their time working hard and learning things and weren't so lazy.”

Burning Petard
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Re: Whatever will he do to occupy his time now?

Post by Burning Petard »

And ultimately, it is the customer who chooses what Twitter or Facebook or whatever social media you name, allow to be posted. Just like this place. If you don't like the rules here, go away and don't post here. If enough customers leave, that particular social media dries up and blows away into some dumpster in Palo Alto.

As long as an adequate number of users are connected each day, that medium will continue. Even old forms of media, like newspapers, live and die by that rule. The News of the World, CBS, Twitter, all exist by selling advertising. Not sure about the oldest written form I know about--nailing a notice up on the church door. I don't think a good Lutheran in America would be legally allowed to post a thesis on the door of a Roman Catholic church.

There is the yet older method, which still works--swap stories around the camp fire or over the back fence.

snailgate.

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Bicycle Bill
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Re: Whatever will he do to occupy his time now?

Post by Bicycle Bill »

Burning Petard wrote:
Wed Jan 13, 2021 1:28 pm
Not sure about the oldest written form I know about--nailing a notice up on the church door. I don't think a good Lutheran in America would be legally allowed to post a thesis on the door of a Roman Catholic church.
Well, a good Lutheran could probably still do that — but just like Trump's posts, they would not be allowed to stay on the site and would be quickly taken down.  Just like I see Gob has been doing with the 'check out these pictures!' porn spammers.

Hey, Gob ... what about their rights to free speech and all that.  Why don''t you allow them unrestricted and unfettered access to this site?     </sarcasm>
(and as an aside, I'd also like to know how they are able to find this site and post their spam without going through the invitation/registration/registration business that Methuselah was going on and on about)
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Gob
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Re: Whatever will he do to occupy his time now?

Post by Gob »

Jack Dorsey, the chief executive of Twitter, has said that banning Donald Trump from the platform was the “right decision” but that it sets a dangerous precedent.

Speaking out for the first time since the social network took the remarkable step of permanently suspending the president’s account following a violent attack on the US Capitol, Dorsey said the company faced “an extraordinary and untenable circumstance, forcing us to focus all of our actions on public safety”.

“I do not celebrate or feel pride in our having to ban @realDonaldTrump from Twitter, or how we got here,” Dorsey admitted on Wednesday in an extended Twitter thread. “I feel a ban is a failure of ours, ultimately, to promote healthy conversation. And a time for us to reflect on our operations and the environment around us.”

Dorsey said that it was the right decision for the company but that such actions “fragment the public conversation”.

“They divide us,” he continued. “They limit the potential for clarification, redemption, and learning. And sets a precedent I feel is dangerous: the power an individual or corporation has over a part of the global public conversation.”



https://www.theguardian.com/technology/ ... -executive
“If you trust in yourself, and believe in your dreams, and follow your star. . . you'll still get beaten by people who spent their time working hard and learning things and weren't so lazy.”

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Scooter
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Re: Whatever will he do to occupy his time now?

Post by Scooter »

Amazon Court Filing Includes Chilling Death Threats Published on Parler

Amazon submitted a new filing in federal court on Tuesday in response to an emergency motion by Parler to restore its hosting services through Amazon’s AWS. Parler was kicked offline early Monday after Amazon said the social media company had violated its terms of service and Parler couldn’t find another company willing to do business. Parler sued Amazon on Monday alleging breach of contract and an antitrust violation.

But whatever you think of Amazon’s actions, the filing makes one thing absolutely clear: Parler was a cesspool of racist hate, insurrectionist appeals against the United States, and chillingly specific death threats.

The court filing, first reported by Seattle Times, lays out the ways in which Parler violated Amazon’s terms of service by using what Amazon calls a “hands-off approach” to moderating the content of its users. Amazon says it approached company leadership at Parler in mid-November 2020 and tried to get the social media service to address its problems.

Parler was either unable or unwilling to properly police its content, which became increasingly worse after President Donald Trump lost the presidential election to Joe Biden. Users called for a new civil war and threatened the assassination of politicians like Stacey Abrams and tech company executives like Twitter CEO Jack Dorsey.

All of the threats would be disturbing enough in isolation before the 2020 presidential election, but they’re even more terrifying in the wake of the Jan. 6 attack on the U.S. Capitol. President Trump gave a speech that afternoon to an enormous crowd of supporters and told them to descend on the Capitol, where both houses of Congress were certifying electoral votes that will make Biden the president. Trump even promised to march down himself, something he didn’t do. Instead, he went back to the White House and watched the chaos on TV, a dizzying outburst of violence that left five people dead.

The threats Amazon filed as examples of extremist speech on Parler are below. All redactions and censoring of words appears in the original court filing.

“Fry’em up. The whole fkn crew. #pelosi #aoc #thesquad #soros #gates #chuckschumer #hrc #obama #adamschiff #blm #antifa we are coming for you and you will know it.”
“#JackDorsey ... you will die a bloody death alongside Mark Suckerturd [Zuckerberg].... It has been decided and plans are being put in place. Remember the photographs inside your home while you slept? Yes, that close. You will die a sudden death!”
“We are going to fight in a civil War on Jan.20th, Form MILITIAS now and acquire targets.”
“On January 20th we need to start systematicly [sic] assassinating [sic] #liberal leaders, liberal activists, #blm leaders and supporters, members of the #nba #nfl #mlb #nhl #mainstreammedia anchors and correspondents and #antifa. I already have a news worthy event planned.”
“Shoot the police that protect these shitbag senators right in the head then make the senator grovel a bit before capping they ass.”
“After the firing squads are done with the politicians the teachers are next.”
“Death to @zuckerberg @realjeffbezos @jackdorsey @pichai.”
“White people need to ignite their racial identity and rain down suffering and death like a hurricane upon zionists.”
“Put a target on these motherless trash [Antifa] they aren’t human taking one out would be like stepping on a roach no different.”
“We need to act like our forefathers did Kill [Black and Jewish people] all Leave no victims or survivors.”
“We are coming with our list we know where you live we know who you are and we are coming for you and it starts on the 6th civil war... Lol if you will think it’s a joke... Enjoy your last few days you have.”
“This bitch [Stacey Abrams] will be good target practice for our beginners.”
“This cu** [United States Secretary of Transportation Elaine Chao] should be... hung for betraying their country.”
“Hang this mofo [Georgia Secretary of State Brad Raffensperger] today.”
“HANG THAt N***** ASAP”

Gizmodo reported on Tuesday that Parler users were among the many insurrectionists that gained access to the Capitol during the siege—an attack we now know was even worse than what we saw on TV last week.
I still say that the only solution is the corpses of 10 million or so Trump supporters littering the streets with their blood flowing down the gutters.
"If you don't have a seat at the table, you're on the menu."

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ex-khobar Andy
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Re: Whatever will he do to occupy his time now?

Post by ex-khobar Andy »

According to the Daily Mail:

Trump 'orders aides not to pay Rudy Giuliani's $20K-a-day fee' as he turns on his closest allies in fury at being impeached for a second time and wallows in 'self-pity' at the White House


I hate it when I can't decide which side I am on in a dispute. I so want this to go to court.

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