How to know when the insurrection starts.

[Darren]

I've recommended this before. With people moving out of blue states like California and New York it helps to understand basic human nature.

Yesterday I had a conversation with a Democrat committee woman who proved the point. It's virtually impossible to walk in another's shoes. I also recommend Edward T. Hall's books.

[ex-khobar Andy]

So trying to find the book referenced (citations are always helpful), I ended up down a rabbit hole that led me here

Thanks for another window into the disturbed right wing of America. Since I’m home 80% of the time and not a lot on my plate, I’m making it my new purpose to lurk on right wing message boards and send tips to the FBI.

Don't be distracted by poodle shooter aficionados.

Go ahead and tip the FBI. Keep in mind they could have stopped 9/11 and the Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School shooting if they'd acted on tips.

This is an example of what the FBI will never catch. It's legal to make and own. I suspect railroad maintenance workers and ironworkers have some they saved from work. Cadwelding is well known by craftworkers.

Today is the 160th birthday of Hans Goldschmidt, German chemist, who invented thermite (alumino-thermic) process for welding railroad & streetcar rails. His process is still in use worldwide for on-site welding. He used reactions of oxides of certain metals with aluminum to yield aluminum oxide & the free metal.

Thought you'd like to know, Darren. Gotta keep track of this stuff.

[Scooter]

It's virtually impossible to walk in another's shoes.

And some will purport to do so, but are really play acting to advance their own ends:

The Capitol Rioter Dressed Up as a Native American Is Part of a Long Cultural History of ‘Playing Indian.’ We Ignore It at Our Peril

Joseph Pierce, January 18, 2021

Of all the images to emerge from the white supremacist invasion of the US Capitol building, there is one that epitomizes this contradictory moment: Jacob Anthony Chansley (also known as Jake Angeli) standing shirtless in a horned helmet posing with an American flag on the dais of the Senate. His face is painted red, white, and blue; a pair of eagle feathers dangle from the fur-lined headdress. He flexes a bicep in defiance, as if he has just conquered a foreign land.

I have seen this image before: hung on the walls of museums, in textbooks, chiseled in statues across the United States. It is an image of violent appropriation—a warning and a reminder. White supremacists like Angeli pose as Indians in order to create an image of themselves as inseparable from the land itself. They imitate Indigenous people and they justify their actions by imagining themselves as the natural heirs to a land retroactively emptied of Native Americans.

But we are still here.

As a Cherokee Nation citizen, I have witnessed countless examples of the appropriation of Native American imagery and identity by non-Indigenous people. But Angeli’s pose—and its iconographic significance—is not just another instance of cultural appropriation. It is also an expression of an enduring desire for indigeneity without Indigenous people.

Storming the White House was an expression of the inability to imagine a world in which white people do not automatically and inevitably wield the power over life and death in this country built on genocide and slavery. But this imaginary is unthinkable without first positioning Native Americans as inherently closer to “nature,” only to erase us from that natural landscape, and then, finally, replace us with white men posing as Indians. This is the history of the settler colonialism in the United States. Angeli is symptomatic of this history, not an outlier.

While the majority of news outlets have described Angeli’s costuming as vaguely Viking in origin, this interpretation fails to consider the wider cultural history. Tropes of Native American wildness and proximity to nature were harnessed by Romantic-era artists in Europe who were disenchanted with the materialism brought by industrialization and longed for a return to a supposedly unspoiled, pre-modern life.

In the mid-19th century, German painters turned to idyllic if moody landscapes and revived (or invented) Norse folk traditions in literature and music. This imaginary of pre-industrial life was itself influenced by earlier depictions of American nature on colonial maps and of Native Americans as part of nature itself. Such romanticized representations took shape in complex ways over a period of centuries, but it is important to understand that the Germanic revival of Norse mythology was, from the beginning, influenced by tropes of spiritual connection to land that can be traced to colonial depictions of Native Americans.

But don’t take my word for it. Ironically, Richard Wagner’s wife, Cosima, described the very costumes that are now credited with popularizing the image of the heroic horned Viking—from Wagner’s operatic ring cycle Der Ring des Nibelungen—as “reminiscent of Indian chieftains” and “ethnographic nonsense.” The horned helmet has no basis in actual Nordic culture, but does have precedence in Native American communities.

In short, Viking imagery has been harnessed by white supremacists to reimagine the past, but Angeli’s pose is not just about the history of representation. It’s about how to make demands in the public sphere. It’s about power.

What is the point of dressing up as Indigenous?

According to the white supremacist vision of the United States, the contemporary moment has become corrupted by careerist politicians (“the swamp”), multicultural inclusion (non-white people), and government corruption (the vote is “rigged”). But critiquing the US government through its own mechanisms for dissent and protest is not forceful enough to “make America great again.” And therein lies the utility of the Indian for white supremacists. Indigenous people come to stand in for a primal connection to land, a warrior ethos and martial masculinity, and an opaque, mystical perspective on life that exists prior to the foundation of this corrupt government.

Angeli, who was arrested on January 9, is a QAnon conspiracy theorist who calls himself a shaman and a hyperdimensional being. His posturing enacted a long tradition of what scholar Philip Deloria (Standing Rock Sioux) described as “playing Indian”—mimicking stereotypical imagery of Native Americans in a quest to assert a US national identity while also denigrating contemporary Indigenous people. Participants in the Boston Tea Party dressed in buckskins and face paint and belted out war whoops as they dumped tea into Boston harbor. Such racial cosplay often crops up in acts of civic disturbance.

I want to emphasize that Angeli is not just attempting to replicate an Indian image, but to live in Indianness as a statement of a right to the land, this place, this country. But what he does not realize is that this claim to aboriginal belonging is only possible because of the violent seizure of Indigenous lands by the very government that he now protests.

Indigenous peoples are necessary for a vision of America as authentic and free, and yet we must be eliminated so past and present settlers can take our land and replace us with their own systems of government, culture, and history. Angeli’s theatrics are dangerous because they position Indigenous peoples as relics of the past. This appropriation of Indigenous life is akin to what anthropologist Renato Rosaldo has called “imperial nostalgia,” a yearning for a past that was destroyed by the very people who mourn its loss.

It is no coincidence that there is a painting of Columbus’s landing hung in the Capitol rotunda. This posture marks ownership not because of what Columbus actually did—not how he himself posed—but how he has been portrayed in art and popular culture. It is a pose instantly recognizable because of its pervasiveness in US culture. I wonder if Angeli stopped to contemplate this image on his way to the Senate chambers. Or if, perhaps, his body simply remembered this pose as a form of settler-colonial muscle memory.

Yet Angeli’s pose also resembles the Romantic portraiture of artists such as George Catlin, who painted Indigenous subjects precisely because he saw them as destined for extinction. Take, for example, Catlin’s Máh-to-tóh-pa, Four Bears, Second Chief, in Full Dress from 1832.

White supremacy (indeed, whiteness itself) is neither natural nor innocent. Rather, it is both a structure of reality and a way of seeing the world. Angeli’s stance repeats a long history of violent occupation of Turtle Island by white settlers and the erasure of Indigenous people. As we bear witness to this surreal moment in which romantic portraiture and white supremacy converge, it is imperative that we see these images for what they are: an attempt to seize power by erasing people who never left.

Joseph M. Pierce is a citizen of the Cherokee Nation and associate professor in the department of Hispanic languages and literature at Stony Brook University.[/quote]

[Joe Guy]

To me, Angeli looks nothing like someone "dressed up as a Native American". He looks more like a mentally ill guy who craves attention.

Sometimes a nutcase is just a nutcase.

[Gob]

Yeah but, you know, racism, and cultural appropriation, and stuff more important than actuality...

[Darren]

How will you know when the insurrection has started,

Same as the lawyer who was facing a judgement from the successful malpractice suit.

"I never thought it would come to this." or a variant of equivalent surprise.

[Darren]

To be clear an insurrection, if it happens, won't involve groups taking up arms.

It will take advantage of the increasing fragility of the country's infrastructure that supports the Borg. Neither you nor any federal agency will see it until it's a fait accompli.

[MajGenl.Meade]

[Sue U]

Thank goodness we bought that tiger repellent!

[Scooter]

[Darren]

Closed in 2018.

[Bicycle Bill]

Shown below — the La Crosse Boiling Water Reactor (LACBWR), a nuclear-fueled power-generating plant located in Genoa, Wisconsin (approx 15 miles south of La Crosse, WI).  Approved 1961; first sustained chain reaction in 1967; declared commercially operational in 1971; shut down/decommissioned in 1987 as its small size (rated at 50 megawatts) made it no longer economically viable.

An interesting side note — the conveyor you see at the left edge of the picture leads to a HUGE pile of coal, as the Dairyland Power Cooperative still uses the site for the operation of a conventional coal-burning generation facility (officially known as "Genoa Station #3" or "G-3", as it is the third generating plant to be built on-site) with a generating capacity of 379 megawatts.  In January 2020, Dairyland’s Board of Directors voted to retire G-3 in 2021.  The decision was made after extensive evaluation of impacts on employees, age of the facility, system capacity requirements, regulatory requirements, projected maintenance needs and costs, fuel supply, overall cost of power production, and regional market prices for energy.



The plant you showed — Oyster Creek — DID shut down in 2018, one year ahead of schedule. It was originally licensed for forty years (1969 ~ 2009) and received a 20-year extension at that point.  One year later, in 2010, Exelon reported that Oyster Creek would close in 2019 — 10 years earlier than planned — so that cooling towers would not have to be installed to meet new environmental standards.  In February 2018 the closure date was adjusted ahead one year to October 2018.

So in simple words, it operated for almost fifty years, was scheduled for closure because the people who ran it didn't want to spend the money to bring it up to current environmental standards, and it shut down one year earlier than originally scheduled.  It wasn't the liberals or the environmentalists or the anti-nuke brigade who shut it down — in fact, the 20-year extension in 2009 was over the objections of several anti-nuke groups; it was the bean counters who based everything on the bottom line of the profit-and-loss statements.  Your typical run-of-the-mill Republicans, in other words.

And to stay in simple terms, what does the shutdown of a nuclear power-generating plant for economic reasons have to do with "when an insurrection starts"?

-"BB"-

[BoSoxGal]

There’s one shoe that fits all that - perfectly!

[Darren]

There’s one shoe that fits all that - perfectly!

Those are too new. Have something broken in you can wear that's comfortable for miles and miles of walking when you leave the city. The scruffier they look the better.

Have an extra pair to replace the first pair when they get stolen.

[Darren]

The plant you showed — Oyster Creek — DID shut down in 2018, one year ahead of schedule. It was originally licensed for forty years (1969 ~ 2009) and received a 20-year extension at that point.  One year later, in 2010, Exelon reported that Oyster Creek would close in 2019 — 10 years earlier than planned — so that cooling towers would not have to be installed to meet new environmental standards.  In February 2018 the closure date was adjusted ahead one year to October 2018.

So in simple words, it operated for almost fifty years, was scheduled for closure because the people who ran it didn't want to spend the money to bring it up to current environmental standards, and it shut down one year earlier than originally scheduled.  It wasn't the liberals or the environmentalists or the anti-nuke brigade who shut it down — in fact, the 20-year extension in 2009 was over the objections of several anti-nuke groups; it was the bean counters who based everything on the bottom line of the profit-and-loss statements.  Your typical run-of-the-mill Republicans, in other words.

And to stay in simple terms, what does the shutdown of a nuclear power-generating plant for economic reasons have to do with "when an insurrection starts"?

-"BB"-

The new environmental standards were a back door way to add costs to a plant that was in excellent shape. Oyster Creek was originally built for GPU as a turnkey project for less than $100 million. It was a first of kind so GE gave GPU a helluva deal.

The plant cooling was via a canal that circulated water from Barnegat Bay. When the plant shut down for outages it had to reduce power slowly going to cold iron and slowly reduce the flow through the condenser to prevent killing fish through thermal shock. The local fishery was much appreciated by fisherman. NJ's bogus requirement of cooling towers ignored the fact the warm water greatly benefited the fish.

Before Excelon bought the plant, GPUN spent a lot of money on the plant for maintenance not included in the five year plan. There was no reason the plant couldn't have operated until the end of the license. If you recall GPUN used to own TMI. They took a lot of heat from the NRC. After that debacle they did everything they could to prevent any other issues.

To answer your other question, the success of an insurrection depends on the fragility of the infrastructure. At a certain point the probability of a domino effect increases. Then Unintended Consequences becomes relevant. Closure of base load plants affects the stability of the grid depending on multiple factors.

People may not know why the power goes off and stays off in the future, you might,

[Darren]

Another base load plant in the process of being shut down. Another blow to the grid.

Politicians must think all they have to do is depend on electric utilities to provide the power no matter what. ENRON should have proved that was foolhardy.

If you're in a state that deregulated you're screwed sooner or later at best. At worse, make sure you have a good pair of comfortable boots.

Do you feel good?

[Bicycle Bill]

Another base load plant in the process of being shut down. Another blow to the grid.

Politicians must think all they have to do is depend on electric utilities to provide the power no matter what. ENRON should have proved that was foolhardy.

If you're in a state that deregulated you're screwed sooner or later at best. At worse, make sure you have a good pair of comfortable boots.

Do you feel good?

And of course, nothing is being constructed/updated/expanded to take their place.

Bullshit.  As of April 2020, wind farms — which didn't exist back when Oyster Creek, LACBWR, or Indian Point were under construction — in America had a total generating capacity of 105,591 MW.  Waste-to-energy generation, at least on a small scale, is out there as well.  Then there's solar energy ... even at the small, supplemental level that powers only one or two buildings by means of roof-top panels.  Granted, taken one at a time, that's not a lot, but every little bit helps.  And once we figure out a SAFE, long-term way of dealing with spent nuclear fuel rods, nuclear power may even see a renaissance.

Remember too that our electronics are becoming more efficient, requiring less power in the first place.

If anything, I see the problem as being the fact that nobody wants to do anything for themselves any more — which is creating an unprecedented demand for electrical energy.
The doorbell rings?   Let the Ring cam tell you who's there.
Want to know what's on TV?   Just ask Alexa, and she'll even turn it on for you if you tell her to.
Don't want to put your tootsies on a cold floor in the morning?   Program the Nest home control system, and remind Alexa to turn on the coffeepot while you're at it.
Then get up, unplug your Chevy Volt, and hi-ho, hi-ho, it's off to work you go — where you're surrounded by screens, computers, air conditioning and heating systems, people with cell phones .... it's a vicious, ever-expanding circle.

In 1961, JFK committed the United States to put a man on the moon within a decade — and even with the Apollo 1 launch-pad catastrophe, America delivered on his promise.  If Biden were to take a page from Kennedy's book and say that by 2025 we will find a way to generate safe, dependable nuclear power — and the rest of the country would get behind it, instead if rejecting it out of hand because it was proposed by someone from the other party — God alone knows what we can do.

Instead, we get a doom-and-gloom prophet like you who seems to be not just anticipating, but looking forward to, a purge to reduce the population so that only the 'right' people are around to use what — to you, anyway — are dangerously finite resources.

-"BB"-

[Darren]

Another base load plant in the process of being shut down. Another blow to the grid.

Politicians must think all they have to do is depend on electric utilities to provide the power no matter what. ENRON should have proved that was foolhardy.

If you're in a state that deregulated you're screwed sooner or later at best. At worse, make sure you have a good pair of comfortable boots.

Do you feel good?

And of course, nothing is being constructed/updated/expanded to take their place.

Bullshit.  As of April 2020, wind farms — which didn't exist back when Oyster Creek, LACBWR, or Indian Point were under construction — in America had a total generating capacity of 105,591 MW.  Waste-to-energy generation, at least on a small scale, is out there as well.  Then there's solar energy ... even at the small, supplemental level that powers only one or two buildings by means of roof-top panels.  Granted, taken one at a time, that's not a lot, but every little bit helps.  And once we figure out a SAFE, long-term way of dealing with spent nuclear fuel rods, nuclear power may even see a renaissance.

Remember too that our electronics are becoming more efficient, requiring less power in the first place.

If anything, I see the problem as being the fact that nobody wants to do anything for themselves any more — which is creating an unprecedented demand for electrical energy.
The doorbell rings?   Let the Ring cam tell you who's there.
Want to know what's on TV?   Just ask Alexa, and she'll even turn it on for you if you tell her to.
Don't want to put your tootsies on a cold floor in the morning?   Program the Nest home control system, and remind Alexa to turn on the coffeepot while you're at it.
Then get up, unplug your Chevy Volt, and hi-ho, hi-ho, it's off to work you go — where you're surrounded by screens, computers, air conditioning and heating systems, people with cell phones .... it's a vicious, ever-expanding circle.

In 1961, JFK committed the United States to put a man on the moon within a decade — and even with the Apollo 1 launch-pad catastrophe, America delivered on his promise.  If Biden were to take a page from Kennedy's book and say that by 2025 we will find a way to generate safe, dependable nuclear power — and the rest of the country would get behind it, instead if rejecting it out of hand because it was proposed by someone from the other party — God alone knows what we can do.

Instead, we get a doom-and-gloom prophet like you who seems to be not just anticipating, but looking forward to, a purge to reduce the population so that only the 'right' people are around to use what — to you, anyway — are dangerously finite resources.

-"BB"-

I'm not looking forward to mass die offs when the power goes off. Will it happen? We're weakening and destabilizing the grid. That increases the possibility.

The problem is ignorance (feel good politics is an example) and avarice. Do you believe utility execs coordinate their actions with other utility execs? No.

Do you believe there is cross coordination among industries that maintain and operate the country's infrastructure? No.

The base load plants provide power 24/7/365 until they're shut down for a maintenance outage. Neither solar nor wind operate 24/7/365. If you recall the recent link to the huge battery installation in California, that was to stabilize the grid due to the problems with solar and wind power sources.

I talked to an operator at a coal fired power plant that had to make adjustments due to the variances in power output from a neighboring wind farm. It wasn't simple. Large power plants were never designed to throttle up and down. Generators turn at a constant 1800 rpm.

Here's something else to think about. How do you start up a power plant? They have a transformer that takes power from the grid to begin the start up process.

What happens if the grid is down? In most cases the plant can't go through start up and be brought on line.

[ex-khobar Andy]

Per Darren:

I talked to an operator at a coal fired power plant that had to make adjustments due to the variances in power output from a neighboring wind farm. It wasn't simple. Large power plants were never designed to throttle up and down. Generators turn at a constant 1800 rpm.

If they couldn't manage the variations caused by the variations in wind power supply, how did they manage the day to day and minute by minute variations caused by - e.g., - spikes in heater or AC demand or variations caused by half time at the TV game when everyone gets up to fix a snack or people going to bed when Letterman (or whoever does it these days) finishes?

[Darren]

The video below is an explanation.

In the past the grid had enough reserve capacity that control centers could add and shut down some plants as necessary, The 200+ MW unit GE installed for Virginia Power in the 90's at Chesterfield could be started and shut down as needed from Virginia Power's control center. That unit had a starter motor almost as big as the generator. The thought then was that the generator in the future could motor the combustion turbine to start it. That still depends on power from the grid. Those plants don't normally have black start capability.

All nuclear power plants have black start capability. They do not need power from the grid to start up.