Plan B Forum

Nazi symbols on display at CPAC. Colour me completely unsurprised.

CPAC Organizer Vehemently Denies Stage Was Designed to Look Like Nazi Symbol

Matt Schlapp, the head of the American Conservative Union who organizes the Conservative Political Action Conference, is pushing back against those who said that the stage for the event that is taking place in Orlando is eerily reminiscent to a Nazi symbol. “Stage design conspiracies are outrageous and slanderous,” Schlapp tweeted. He went on to say that “CPAC proudly stands with our Jewish allies.”

The fact that Schlapp felt the need to comment on the issue illustrates just how pervasive the comparisons had become on social media as many pointed out that the shape of the stage looked like a Nazi symbol. Specifically, many said the stage looked like a version of the Odal rune, also referred to as the Othala rune. The symbol dates back centuries but was also used by some Nazi SS divisions during World War II. The symbol was emblazoned on uniforms of some Nazi soldiers.

Some social media users shared photos that compared the CPAC stage to the old uniforms, illustrating the resemblance. The Anti-Defamation League has pointed out that after World War II the symbol became commonly used among white supremacists and Neo-Nazis in both Europe and North America.

It's like when the Proud Boys and other assorted scum get caught making white power signs with their fingers. "We weren't doing that, and even if we were, it was just to get a rise out of libs."

It took a second look, but yeppers, there it is.

I did not know the shape posted here was used by the Nazis. I suspect many people did not. (I HAVE seen it used in other contexts, having no association whatsoever with the Nazis-or anything else.)

Known as the Odal or Othal rune, it wasn't as common or as readily recognized as the 'double lightning-flashes'    
of the Schutzstaffel (SS) or the ubiquitous Nazi swastika, but there is no doubt that it was used by the SS.

And I'm not for a single split-second buying that BS about 'coincidence' and that whoever 'designed' the stage wasn't 110% aware of the fact.

Meaning: Kinship, family and blood unity.

The Odal rune symbolised several values of which were of central importance to Nazi ideology.  It was adopted from the Elder Futhark ᛟ-rune. During the Second World War it was used by the 7th SS Volunteer Mountain Division Prinz Eugen and the 23rd SS Volunteer Panzer Grenadier Division Nederland, as well as the SS-Rasse- und Siedlungshauptamt, which was responsible for maintaining the racial purity of the SS.
from Wikipedia, with appropriate footnotes and citations)

-"BB"-

Lots of symbols were used by the SS. (Off the top of my head, a mailed fist, a key, a skull, a stylized letter F, a sword, a sun, a lion rampant, a stag, a winged helmet a Maltese cross, and crossed rifles.) That does not mean everyone knows them.

It's a star. Lots or companies use stars..

Look at the shape of the stage.

Images of the CPAC stage went viral this weekend as many noted a resemblance to the Odal or Othala Rune, a symbol emblazoned on some Nazi uniforms. The Anti-Defamation League has classified the insignia as a hate symbol that has been adopted by modern day white supremacists.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/ ... bol-hyatt/

Scooter wrote: ↑

Mon Mar 01, 2021 1:06 pm

Look at the shape of the stage.

Ah, didn't see that, but still, it's a bit bloody tenuous isn't it?

Anyone who does not recognize the common symbols of far-right racist and fascist groups is either brain dead or lying.

The odal or othala rune has long been prominent among a variety of symbols substituted for the swastika by neo-Nazi groups around the world, particularly in countries where display of the swastika itself is banned. (The neo-Nazis are very big on Viking tropes and symbols in particular.) In the U.S., it has been expressly adopted by the "National Socialist Movement," seen here at a 2018 book club meeting:



You'd think an organization that claims to reject the racist radical right that it so clearly attracts might be a little more sensitive about any symbology used at its konklave -- "intentional" or not -- especially considering all the signaling and dogwhistling and winking of Trump and his klan to white supremacists and vice-versa. But this is clearly a feature, not a bug.

Gob wrote: ↑

Mon Mar 01, 2021 3:24 pm

Ah, didn't see that, but still, it's a bit bloody tenuous isn't it?

Tenuous how? The stage design is an exact replica of a common Nazi symbol, without serving any functional purpose that could otherwise explain it.

Who designed the stage?

I'm not sure I would have seen that if it had not been pointed out to me, but that's the nature of a dog whistle. Those who know it (i.e., dogs) recognize it for what it is. Those of us who are not dogs or white supremacists don't even notice.

The OK sign / white power thing is similar. When I was taught to scuba dive, it's the universal "Are you OK?" question and "I'm OK" response. (Actually my very first open water dive was a Royal Navy training course, English Channel, February 1971, and you could not see six inches in front of your mask. The OK sign was useless. We banged twice on the tank with the knife to indicate still alive and functional despite freezing our balls or tits off.) When years later I undertook training to be an instructor, the trainer told us to do the sign very crisply. The three fingers straight up and tight together. Consequently that's how I always taught it. (The 'thumbs up' sign means [depending on context] 'Let's go up' or 'You go up' so it cannot be substituted for OK.) The White Power symbol, as I understand it, uses the three fingers to represent the W and the tail of the P.

With the 'tight' version of the sign it's difficult to make the case that it symbolizes the W. I haven't been diving in a while and AFAIK there are no plans to phase out this sign, and if I were on a dive I would certainly continue to use it. Now that I think about it, when I was trained in use of hazmat gear and for much the same reason - verbal communication is sometimes difficult - we were taught the same basic hand signals to indicate OK or some problem.

So I would at least for now use the OK sign in an appropriate context. But I think I would reject its use in a casual context.

Gob wrote: ↑

Mon Mar 01, 2021 4:22 pm

Who designed the stage?

According to Hyatt Hotels:

“The CPAC 2021 event is hosted and managed by the American Conservative Union that manages all aspects of event logistics, including the stage design and aesthetics. We discussed directly with ACU leadership who told us that any resemblance to a symbol of hate is unintentional. We will continue to stay in dialogue with event organizers regarding our deep concerns. Any further questions can be directed to CPAC.”

Of course, it was purely unintentional:

Event Planner 1: We can use a round stage and make it look like a giant Q! That'll give those Qanon lunatics the "sign" they're looking for and keep them in the fold!

Event Planner 2: Nah, that's a bit too on-the-nose. Let's square off the Q so it's not as obvious, make them hunt for it ...

Event Planner 1: Genius!

Jarlaxle wrote: ↑

Mon Mar 01, 2021 1:38 am

I did not know the shape posted here was used by the Nazis. I suspect many people did not.

Jarlaxle wrote: ↑

Mon Mar 01, 2021 6:11 am

Lots of symbols were used by the SS. [...] That does not mean everyone knows them.

Irrelevant, in regard to CPAC.

ex-khobar Andy wrote: ↑

Mon Mar 01, 2021 7:49 pm

I'm not sure I would have seen that if it had not been pointed out to me, but that's the nature of a dog whistle. Those who know it (i.e., dogs) recognize it for what it is. Those of us who are not dogs or white supremacists don't even notice.

BINGO.

Sue U wrote: ↑

Mon Mar 01, 2021 3:39 pm

Anyone who does not recognize the common symbols of far-right racist and fascist groups is either brain dead or lying.

The odal or othala rune has long been prominent among a variety of symbols substituted for the swastika by neo-Nazi groups around the world, particularly in countries where display of the swastika itself is banned. (The neo-Nazis are very big on Viking tropes and symbols in particular.) In the U.S., it has been expressly adopted by the "National Socialist Movement," seen here at a 2018 book club meeting:



You'd think an organization that claims to reject the racist radical right that it so clearly attracts might be a little more sensitive about any symbology used at its konklave -- "intentional" or not -- especially considering all the signaling and dogwhistling and winking of Trump and his klan to white supremacists and vice-versa. But this is clearly a feature, not a bug.

I have never seen it in that context until this thread. The last time I saw it, it was used in a Dungeons And Dragons module.

Econoline wrote: ↑

Mon Mar 01, 2021 9:30 pm

Jarlaxle wrote: ↑

Mon Mar 01, 2021 1:38 am

I did not know the shape posted here was used by the Nazis. I suspect many people did not.

Jarlaxle wrote: ↑

Mon Mar 01, 2021 6:11 am

Lots of symbols were used by the SS. [...] That does not mean everyone knows them.

Irrelevant, in regard to CPAC.

ex-khobar Andy wrote: ↑

Mon Mar 01, 2021 7:49 pm

I'm not sure I would have seen that if it had not been pointed out to me, but that's the nature of a dog whistle. Those who know it (i.e., dogs) recognize it for what it is. Those of us who are not dogs or white supremacists don't even notice.

BINGO.

That is...nonsensical.

Jarlaxle wrote: ↑

Tue Mar 02, 2021 12:15 am

I have never seen it in that context until this thread. The last time I saw it, it was used in a Dungeons And Dragons module.

I guess that might have something to do with the fact that you aren't a neo-Nazi, don't hang out with them, and don't read any of the shit they produce. That's to your credit, at least.

Jarlaxle wrote: ↑

Tue Mar 02, 2021 12:17 am

That is...nonsensical.

Which are you disputing, the very idea of dog whistles, or the description given of the way that they ideally would work?

Indeed, that is their point, is ti not? To convey something to those who are part of the "in" group. When Mozart write Die Zauberflote (The Magic Flute) he incorporated a lot of Masonic imagery and lore into it (indeed, Amadeus suggests Salieri encouraged him to do this to cause a rift between him and the Masons). It would likely be missed by those who were/are not freemasons, but it is there (at least according to a few friends who are masons or shriners). In the instant situation, it's too close not to be intentional.