Neanderthal Thinking

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ex-khobar Andy
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Re: Neanderthal Thinking

Post by ex-khobar Andy »

There is an epistemological point here that bears pointing out. I now know that motorbikes come with an automatic 'lights-on' feature. How do I know? Because Jarl told me. I could go to a few MC showrooms and ask to look at a few bikes and check them out. But that would take time and efforts and expose me to unnecessary COVID risks. I trust Jarl - he knows far more than I do about MCs. He has no reason to lie. In fact there is a disincentive for him to do so - others here also know about bikes and would swiftly point out if he was wrong and he would be vilified, turned away by decent society and made to sit in the corner.

How do I know that vaccines work and that masks help to reduce the spread of the disease? I've read some of the direct evidence, i.e., the published scientific papers. I've read far more of the second hand evidence, i.e., accounts of the research by journalists or scientists who take the trouble to understand the dry science and explain it to people who are not familiar with the concept of messenger RNA or the role of ribosomes on forming antibodies. I trust most of these guys and the publication process. They have no reason to lie. Dr Fauci, for example, has a good job (he's 80, for crying out loud and still functioning) and he's probably comfortably off.

I apply the same rules of understanding to Dr Fauci on infectious diseases as I do to Jarl on the subject of motorbikes. No more, no less.

Jarlaxle
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Re: Neanderthal Thinking

Post by Jarlaxle »

Big RR wrote:
Sat Mar 06, 2021 4:18 pm
And how many died from that "chest cold"? And in how many countries? But I guess that's just fake news. And since it's international, it must be the illuminati pulling the strings, right?
No, it's just panic porn. The survival rate exceeds 99%. The survival rate for people younger than 70 exceeds 99.9%.

Jarlaxle
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Re: Neanderthal Thinking

Post by Jarlaxle »

I don't know why that should be. Obviously chemical warfare gear is designed to protect the wearer from chemicals and not from viruses, which are different animals. But the full body protection and breathing through a filter, even one not designed for viruses, should provide some level of protection. I can't tell from the pic if they are just wearing respirators or full SCBA.
Level IV gear is a full, airtight containment suit, with boots, mask, gloves.
Do you have a reference for your assertion that this gear "does NOT protect the wearer from viruses"? If you are just saying that it is not 100%, then yes, I'll agree, nothing is 100%.
Someone who taught respiratory and NBC protection to troops for 15+ years and is certified to testify in Federal courts as an expert witness regarding respiratory protection and NBC training.

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Crackpot
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Re: Neanderthal Thinking

Post by Crackpot »

Jarlaxle wrote:
Sat Mar 06, 2021 6:52 pm
Big RR wrote:
Sat Mar 06, 2021 4:18 pm
And how many died from that "chest cold"? And in how many countries? But I guess that's just fake news. And since it's international, it must be the illuminati pulling the strings, right?
No, it's just panic porn. The survival rate exceeds 99%. The survival rate for people younger than 70 exceeds 99.9%.
My wife’s aunt is now dying of that supposed 99.9% survival rate you worthless piece of shit.
Okay... There's all kinds of things wrong with what you just said.

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Bicycle Bill
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Re: Neanderthal Thinking

Post by Bicycle Bill »

Crackpot wrote:
Sat Mar 06, 2021 8:34 pm
Jarlaxle wrote:
Sat Mar 06, 2021 6:52 pm
Big RR wrote:
Sat Mar 06, 2021 4:18 pm
And how many died from that "chest cold"? And in how many countries? But I guess that's just fake news. And since it's international, it must be the illuminati pulling the strings, right?
No, it's just panic porn. The survival rate exceeds 99%. The survival rate for people younger than 70 exceeds 99.9%.
My wife’s aunt is now dying of that supposed 99.9% survival rate you worthless piece of shit.
And Katie Barefoot is no longer with us either — the direct result of someone else dying from something you claim has a 99.9% survival rate.  Guess it must really suck when you beat those kinds of odds with a fatal disease but not the lottery, eh?
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Yes, I suppose I could agree with you ... but then we'd both be wrong, wouldn't we?

ex-khobar Andy
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Re: Neanderthal Thinking

Post by ex-khobar Andy »

I've handled chemical agents - not in high concentrations - wearing regular respirator with specialist filter cartridges, gloves and labcoat etc. We developed a method for analyzing environmental samples for agents and degradation products that was patented. I've also been responsible for devising and specifying PPE for disposal and destruction of chemical agents including VX and sarin. (And just to be clear and in the interests of full disclosure, my methods were not used - we did not win the contract.) So I do know a little about this.

I simply do not believe your assertion that the equipment "does NOT protect the wearer from viruses" and you'll need a better reference than some unnamed guy who purports to be an expert. If his contention is that it is not 100%, I will believe it. Nothing is, especially something which depends on a human to don the clothing. A seal missed or badly taped; the wrong sort of gloves; a poor face seal on the respirator / breathing valve; a tear in the clothing caused by some event such as a fall; any of these will reduce the efficacy of the gear. But doctors who know this sort of shit wear masks and gowns and face shields - they probably have some idea what they are doing with a far far lesser level of protection.

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Joe Guy
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Re: Neanderthal Thinking

Post by Joe Guy »

I don't know how others here think but when I wear a mask, I'm doing it to lessen my chances of getting sick or causing others to get sick. Some of them could end up dying. A statistic that shows that most people don't die doesn't really mean much to the thousands or millions of people who have gotten extremely sick and recovered.

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Bicycle Bill
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Re: Neanderthal Thinking

Post by Bicycle Bill »

Jarlaxle, God forbid anything should happen to you.

But if it does and you have to be wheeled into the operating room to, let's say, have yourself rebuilt after a motorcycle crash, I hope you get an orthopedic surgeon who still takes the time to scrub, mask, and gown and uses gloves and all the rest of the PPE — instead of saying that, "Well, this is just a routine procedure with a 99% chance of survival, and they already sterilized the OR and the instruments, so I suppose I can skip all the rest of this shit."
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Yes, I suppose I could agree with you ... but then we'd both be wrong, wouldn't we?

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Bicycle Bill
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Re: Neanderthal Thinking

Post by Bicycle Bill »

Hey, Jarl -- try this, old buddy.

"I can't go out because of the virus," sounds weak, whiny, and boring.

On the other hand, Vikings are anything but weak, whiny, and boring.  I like Vikings (except for the make-believe purple ones who pretend to play football, but that's not relevant here).  You can't argue with Vikings or Viking logic, because it's usually backed up with berserkers with axes or swords, or something along those lines.

So be like a Viking.  Next time, tell people,
"I have sworn a blood-oath of solitude until the pestilence is purged from the land."

Done!  And you come off sounding like a real stud instead of a wussie.
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-"BB"-
Yes, I suppose I could agree with you ... but then we'd both be wrong, wouldn't we?

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Gob
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Re: Neanderthal Thinking

Post by Gob »

“If you trust in yourself, and believe in your dreams, and follow your star. . . you'll still get beaten by people who spent their time working hard and learning things and weren't so lazy.”

Jarlaxle
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Re: Neanderthal Thinking

Post by Jarlaxle »

ex-khobar Andy wrote:
Sat Mar 06, 2021 10:46 pm
I've handled chemical agents - not in high concentrations - wearing regular respirator with specialist filter cartridges, gloves and labcoat etc. We developed a method for analyzing environmental samples for agents and degradation products that was patented. I've also been responsible for devising and specifying PPE for disposal and destruction of chemical agents including VX and sarin. (And just to be clear and in the interests of full disclosure, my methods were not used - we did not win the contract.) So I do know a little about this.

I simply do not believe your assertion that the equipment "does NOT protect the wearer from viruses" and you'll need a better reference than some unnamed guy who purports to be an expert. If his contention is that it is not 100%, I will believe it. Nothing is, especially something which depends on a human to don the clothing. A seal missed or badly taped; the wrong sort of gloves; a poor face seal on the respirator / breathing valve; a tear in the clothing caused by some event such as a fall; any of these will reduce the efficacy of the gear. But doctors who know this sort of shit wear masks and gowns and face shields - they probably have some idea what they are doing with a far far lesser level of protection.
The only thing that protects against viruses is a positive-pressure suit. Even MOPP IV chemical gear is not, because there is air exchange. (The chemical filters will not stop a virus.) He does not "purport" to be an expert. He trained soldiers in NBC protection and is (yet again) credentialed to testify in Federal court as an expert witness.

Jarlaxle
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Re: Neanderthal Thinking

Post by Jarlaxle »

Bicycle Bill wrote:
Sun Mar 07, 2021 4:16 am
Hey, Jarl -- try this, old buddy.

"I can't go out because of the virus," sounds weak, whiny, and boring.

On the other hand, Vikings are anything but weak, whiny, and boring.  I like Vikings (except for the make-believe purple ones who pretend to play football, but that's not relevant here).  You can't argue with Vikings or Viking logic, because it's usually backed up with berserkers with axes or swords, or something along those lines.

So be like a Viking.  Next time, tell people,
"I have sworn a blood-oath of solitude until the pestilence is purged from the land."

Done!  And you come off sounding like a real stud instead of a wussie.
Image
-"BB"-
Are you on some sort of drugs?

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MajGenl.Meade
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Re: Neanderthal Thinking

Post by MajGenl.Meade »

I think that Jarl mistakes "virus" with "water droplets from my infected lungs smacking into your face" and from yours into mine.

Wear a mask, sir and help save others' lives even if you feel your own is worth less effort.
For Christianity, by identifying truth with faith, must teach-and, properly understood, does teach-that any interference with the truth is immoral. A Christian with faith has nothing to fear from the facts

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Bicycle Bill
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Re: Neanderthal Thinking

Post by Bicycle Bill »

Jarlaxle wrote:
Sun Mar 07, 2021 4:01 pm
Bicycle Bill wrote:
Sun Mar 07, 2021 4:16 am
Hey, Jarl -- try this, old buddy.

"I can't go out because of the virus," sounds weak, whiny, and boring.

On the other hand, Vikings are anything but weak, whiny, and boring.  I like Vikings (except for the make-believe purple ones who pretend to play football, but that's not relevant here).  You can't argue with Vikings or Viking logic, because it's usually backed up with berserkers with axes or swords, or something along those lines.

So be like a Viking.  Next time, tell people,
"I have sworn a blood-oath of solitude until the pestilence is purged from the land."

Done!  And you come off sounding like a real stud instead of a wussie.
Image
-"BB"-
Are you on some sort of drugs?
Several, in fact ... and all prescribed for me by medical professionals for the various failings of my aging body.
My mind, however, remains as sharp as ever.  No need for assistance from any psychotropic compounds there.
Can you say the same?
(eta — yeah, I suppose you can. Like most Repugnicunts and Trumpanistas, you can say whatever you want, true or not; then walk it back and claim 'fake news', 'false facts', 'but what about when *name* did it?', or 'I wuz misquoted', just like your feckless leader, when you get called on it.)
Image
-"BB"-
Yes, I suppose I could agree with you ... but then we'd both be wrong, wouldn't we?

Jarlaxle
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Re: Neanderthal Thinking

Post by Jarlaxle »

Bicycle Bill wrote:
Sun Mar 07, 2021 5:52 pm
Jarlaxle wrote:
Sun Mar 07, 2021 4:01 pm
Bicycle Bill wrote:
Sun Mar 07, 2021 4:16 am
Hey, Jarl -- try this, old buddy.

"I can't go out because of the virus," sounds weak, whiny, and boring.

On the other hand, Vikings are anything but weak, whiny, and boring.  I like Vikings (except for the make-believe purple ones who pretend to play football, but that's not relevant here).  You can't argue with Vikings or Viking logic, because it's usually backed up with berserkers with axes or swords, or something along those lines.

So be like a Viking.  Next time, tell people,
"I have sworn a blood-oath of solitude until the pestilence is purged from the land."

Done!  And you come off sounding like a real stud instead of a wussie.
Image
-"BB"-
Are you on some sort of drugs?
Several, in fact ... and all prescribed for me by medical professionals for the various failings of my aging body.
My mind, however, remains as sharp as ever.  No need for assistance from any psychotropic compounds there.
Can you say the same?
(eta — yeah, I suppose you can. Like most Repugnicunts and Trumpanistas, you can say whatever you want, true or not; then walk it back and claim 'fake news', 'false facts', 'but what about when *name* did it?', or 'I wuz misquoted', just like your feckless leader, when you get called on it.)
Image
-"BB"-
OK...you are getting less and less coherent now. Did you quote the correct post?

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Econoline
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Re: Neanderthal Thinking

Post by Econoline »

OK, then...

Image


ETA: PLUS it works better than tin foil for protecting you from mind probing!
People who are wrong are just as sure they're right as people who are right. The only difference is, they're wrong.
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Jarlaxle
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Re: Neanderthal Thinking

Post by Jarlaxle »

Yeah, that's about as effective as any of the face diapers.

Burning Petard
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Re: Neanderthal Thinking

Post by Burning Petard »

Heard a story today with the headline: Covid virus saved my life.

She was at a certain age, not ready for AARP membership, but not a kid either. She had a slight cough that just did not get better so last spring her family pressured her into getting a Covid test from her PCP. It came back negative, but the Doc said more tests and that came back as lung cancer, bad but treatable. She was in general good health and if it were not for the pandemic publicity, she would have never gone to the doc until the symptoms were much worse and the condition untreatable. She reported that the lung cancer treatment was still ongoing, but looking good.

snailgate

MGMcAnick
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Re: Neanderthal Thinking

Post by MGMcAnick »

I don't know the source of my Covid 19 virus. I figure some unknown person who didn't wear a mask when I was near them gave it to me. I have been careful to wear a mask when I'm inside a business, and usually when I'm near someone outside. Perhaps it was one of those outdoor times that I wasn't careful enough.

I have had people tell me right up front that they wouldn't wear a mask, any time. I avoid them. One lady stated that she was a retired nurse of 30 years, and saw no need to wear a mask. I avoided her too.

I still believe that if EVERYONE wore a mask in the presence of EVERYONE else, with the exception of those we live with, there would be little if any transmission. It's not political. It's just good science. The problem is, an individual can have it, and not know it. Those are the ones who pass it to others, apparently including me.
A friend of Doc's, one of only two B-29 bombers still flying.

ex-khobar Andy
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Re: Neanderthal Thinking

Post by ex-khobar Andy »

What MGMcA said. :ok

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