Cuomo still does not get it

[Gob]

In nursing this behavior was deemed abusive a long time ago. Do try and keep up with the times.

Apart from the hysterical notion that an endearment can be deemed "abusive"*, what does nursing have to do with it?

Is it "abusive" if the recipient is male and the donor female? Both of the same gender?

I once passed a group of colleagues, all female* who were outside work having a fag**. "Morning girls" I quipped. One replied "we are not girls, we're women!" Two others rounded on her and told her to get the fuck out of it as they still considered themselves girls.

* Cisgender

**Another sequestered word.

[Guinevere]

Do not fucking call me darling, or honey, or sweetheart. Or girl. They are not endearments, unless I am your darling or your sweetheart. And honey comes from a hive.

[Jarlaxle]

I'll make sure to not hold a door for you, either.

In fact, if I know it's you, I'll make sure to close it.

[Guinevere]

Manners has nothing to do with the above. You will hold the door for me, and I will say thank you. But if I get to the door first, I will hold it for you.

[Gob]

Do not fucking call me darling, or honey, or sweetheart. Or girl. They are not endearments, unless I am your darling or your sweetheart. And honey comes from a hive.

OK darling, message received.

[MajGenl.Meade]

So, if I'm understanding correctly, I should no longer say "Hi there, sexy"?

OK then. Bagged it.

[Big RR]

Apart from the hysterical notion that an endearment can be deemed "abusive"*

I think the term "abusive" as used there refers to something more belittling or demeaning, cementing a relationship where one person is in charge. Physicians do this much of the time, insisting on being called "doctor" by someone who they refer to by their first name (I had one doctor I insisted call me Mr. my last name) if he insisted on me calling him Dr his last name), but a certain amount of control can be achieved by infantilizing (which may even be just automatic on the part of a cregiver the patient so they will take orders like a good boy or girl. There has been a backlash against this in many pateitn rights communities, which is why a lot of it has stopped (except for the doctors).

Now other cultures may view it differently, but that's how I think it is viewed in the US, regardless of the gender of either party. When my dad was in the hospital, I recall one nurse telling my dad over and over again things like "be a good boy and take your medicine" (he was in his 80s and hated it). I talked to her about it and she agreed to stop, but it was more or less automatic with her--a good way to establish the dominance she believed needed.

[BoSoxGal]

I’m probably in the wrong here but I don’t object to being addressed with endearments by other women or men, so long as the manner of address is appropriate. To me it’s always been very obvious when a man was using an endearment in kindness versus in a sexist/demeaning/sex pest way.

I suppose I can see that because some people lack EQ it is best practice to just avoid endearments altogether except with family/friends, but it would be a very different world if we took that path. I’m not sure a better one, since kindness seems in shorter and shorter supply these days.

[Guinevere]

Again, its simple - don’t be an ass or a creep. If you call me honey or darling I’m not going to fly off the handle, but I may also ask you (politely) to refrain from using those terms. If I do, you can be a grownup about it and be respectful, or you can exhibit the behaviors modeled above — choice is yours.

[Sue U]

I’m probably in the wrong here but I don’t object to being addressed with endearments by other women or men, so long as the manner of address is appropriate.

I agree, BSG. Like I said, it's all about context. And if you're not certain the context permits it, then best not to do it. Being polite, using good manners and avoiding offense should not be rocket surgery, and it shouldn't be difficult to remember to ALWAYS keep your hands to yourself. If you do make a mistake and offend someone, it's okay to apologize. You don't have to insist that they shouldn't have been offended in the first place.

Also, what Guin said, since I see she has posted already.

[TPFKA@W]

Apart from the hysterical notion that an endearment can be deemed "abusive"*, what does nursing have to do with it?

Historically referring to women as "hysterical" was typical to quash any opinion they might wish to express and became angry when their opinions and wishes were ignored. How did you manage to carry that into this century? Your misogyny runs deep and you lack any self awareness and any maturity to see what you are doing. But perhaps I have missed the mark and "hysterical" is some new way of expressing disagreement. It's pretty goddamned offensive either way.

Is it "abusive" if the recipient is male and the donor female? Both of the same gender?

Yes. MMV but I promise that this is something that sprang out of a deep well of anger and resentment.

I personally will stop people in their tracks if they call me honey, deary etc. ( You can be sure any lawyer doing it would be fired on the spot.) I also with snatch men by their wrist and give it a good twist if they put their hand on my shoulder. Local restaurant manager learned that the hard way. He's lucky it wasn't his balls.

So you honey deary people who just don't get it? FUCK YOU,

[Bicycle Bill]

I also with snatch men by their wrist and give it a good twist if they put their hand on my shoulder. Local restaurant manager learned that the hard way. He's lucky it wasn't his balls.

So let me get this straight.....    If I were to come up from behind and tap you on the shoulder to get your attention — let's say I was going to ask you for your business card or the time or maybe just how to get to the john — you are going to go into full Israeli Krav Maga-mode and physically assault me.

No wonder people ignore everybody around them and keep their noses glued in their fucking cellphones.  It's safer that way.

-"BB"-

[TPFKA@W]

And out comes the ever socially clueless and creepy BB to say I said something I didn't say. I actually did not explain the scenario. But you like to make shit up.

But let's go with your, "excuses for creepy behavior" blather that you wrote. It is NEVER OK to touch people that you don't know, and don't need to touch. This is why we have our words, like excuse me, sorry to interrupt, or excuse me, I need through here. All touch-less and completely acceptable.

But creeps, such as you, want to make up excuses to ignore what you ought to have learned back in kindergarten: Keep your hands to yourself. You really do need to keep your nose in your phone because you have no clue on how to navigate society.

So for BB and the rest of the class, it is never ok to touch people you have not been invited to touch, unless of course you are pulling them out of a burning car or you have dementia. Do you have dementia BB?

It is unnecessary to call people honey, sugar, darling, dear and all those other smarmy little words, unless you have dementia.
I anticipate most of you will not pass this class.

[Bicycle Bill]

And out comes the ever socially clueless and creepy BB to say I said something I didn't say. I actually did not explain the scenario. But you like to make shit up.

The quote in my post above came directly from YOUR post above that, incorrect word in place and all.  How can you now claim, with a straight face, that you did NOT say it?  Or is that covered in law school under "Lying for Lawyers 101"?

As you said, we have our words.  So perhaps, Ms. TPFKA@W (and I realize I'm placing myself in jeopardy yet again by referring to you as 'Ms.'), you could use YOUR words to explain the entire fucking scenario as to why you would threaten to throw a hammer-lock onto anyone who — quote again — put their hand on my shoulder — end quote.

-"BB"-

[Long Run]

I've been called "Hun" and "Darlin'" in the last few days by waitresses, and heard them use the same term with everyone. It has been many moons since I had someone use those terms, and given the timing of this thread, brought a smile. Different places, different conventions.

[Gob]

I’m probably in the wrong here but I don’t object to being addressed with endearments by other women or men, so long as the manner of address is appropriate. To me it’s always been very obvious when a man was using an endearment in kindness versus in a sexist/demeaning/sex pest way.

Agreed. If I call anyone "darling", (yes even you Guin,) it's because I feel a degree of affection and regard for them. It's an honour not earned easily.

[MajGenl.Meade]

BB, I think there's a difference (significant) between "putting" a hand on someone's shoulder and "tapping" someone's shoulder. And I think you knew that going in.

It might be OK to tap someone as long as you don't faucet in on them.

[TPFKA@W]

And I think you knew that going in.

It was quite obvious and why no more effort will be made in communicating with the old fool.

[Joe Guy]

It might be OK to tap someone as long as you don't faucet in on them.

Although you'd be at risk of being labeled a spigot.

[Bicycle Bill]

BB, I think there's a difference (significant) between "putting" a hand on someone's shoulder and "tapping" someone's shoulder. And I think you knew that going in.

Yes, I did know that going in.  There's also even more offensive maneuvers, such as taking someone by the shoulders and pulling them into a full (and undesired) embrace.
(there's also playfully accosting and 'stealing' a kiss from someone with whom you are acquainted and have an attraction for ... or at least there used to be.)

But she's the one who said she would, and I quote, "also ... snatch men by their wrist and give it a good twist if they put their hand on my shoulder," without differentiating between a tap (or perhaps a pat) to get one's attention or the other extreme I outlined above.  So I just couldn't resist taking a needle to the balloon that is her oh-so-pompous attitude.

-"BB"-