Graveyard of Empires

Right? Left? Centre?
Political news and debate.
Put your views and articles up for debate and destruction!
User avatar
Scooter
Posts: 16540
Joined: Thu Apr 15, 2010 6:04 pm
Location: Toronto, ON

Re: Graveyard of Empires

Post by Scooter »

The point is you will end up with a lot of dead Americans, because you will have made half the world (or more) your enemy with such an act. To say nothing of your allies not lifting a finger to come to your aid when they attack you.
"If you don't have a seat at the table, you're on the menu."

-- Author unknown

User avatar
BoSoxGal
Posts: 18299
Joined: Tue Apr 06, 2010 10:36 pm
Location: The Heart of Red Sox Nation

Re: Graveyard of Empires

Post by BoSoxGal »

Well Jarl I guess I’ll have to put you in the basket of deplorables I no longer recognize after the developments of recent years. (Although I should point out that even Agent Orange had no such loathsome notions about how the people of Afghanistan should be handled.)
For me, it is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring.
~ Carl Sagan

Big RR
Posts: 14050
Joined: Thu Apr 15, 2010 9:47 pm

Re: Graveyard of Empires

Post by Big RR »

Jarlaxle wrote:
Fri Oct 01, 2021 4:31 pm
100,000% dead serious. Yes, I would rather wipe out every man, woman, and child in Afghanistan than lose one single American.

Almost every problem comes from being soft.
And Jarl, what interest do/did we have in Afghanistan that even remotely justifies that position? Because some idiot politician says we shoudl attack them? Please!

ex-khobar Andy
Posts: 5419
Joined: Sat Dec 19, 2015 4:16 am
Location: Louisville KY as of July 2018

Re: Graveyard of Empires

Post by ex-khobar Andy »

Doesn't proportionality mean anything to you, Jarl? International Humanitarian Law (IHL) Rule 14 "Launching an attack which may be expected to cause incidental loss of civilian life, injury to civilians, damage to civilian objects, or a combination thereof, which would be excessive in relation to the concrete and direct military advantage anticipated, is prohibited."

USA a signatory since 1949, ratified in 1955.

User avatar
Econoline
Posts: 9555
Joined: Sun Apr 18, 2010 6:25 pm
Location: DeKalb, Illinois...out amidst the corn, soybeans, and Republicans

Re: Graveyard of Empires

Post by Econoline »

Scooter wrote:
Fri Oct 01, 2021 5:42 pm
The point is you will end up with a lot of dead Americans, because you will have made half the world (or more) your enemy with such an act. To say nothing of your allies not lifting a finger to come to your aid when they attack you.
THIS.

Starting a war and creating a vast number of new enemy combatants is *NOT* a way to prevent loss of American lives.
People who are wrong are just as sure they're right as people who are right. The only difference is, they're wrong.
God @The Tweet of God

Jarlaxle
Posts: 5370
Joined: Sun Apr 25, 2010 4:21 am
Location: New England

Re: Graveyard of Empires

Post by Jarlaxle »

ex-khobar Andy wrote:
Fri Oct 01, 2021 7:33 pm
Doesn't proportionality mean anything to you, Jarl? International Humanitarian Law (IHL) Rule 14 "Launching an attack which may be expected to cause incidental loss of civilian life, injury to civilians, damage to civilian objects, or a combination thereof, which would be excessive in relation to the concrete and direct military advantage anticipated, is prohibited."

USA a signatory since 1949, ratified in 1955.
Withdraw unilaterally.

Jarlaxle
Posts: 5370
Joined: Sun Apr 25, 2010 4:21 am
Location: New England

Re: Graveyard of Empires

Post by Jarlaxle »

Econoline wrote:
Fri Oct 01, 2021 9:25 pm
Scooter wrote:
Fri Oct 01, 2021 5:42 pm
The point is you will end up with a lot of dead Americans, because you will have made half the world (or more) your enemy with such an act. To say nothing of your allies not lifting a finger to come to your aid when they attack you.
THIS.

Starting a war and creating a vast number of new enemy combatants is *NOT* a way to prevent loss of American lives.
I agree completely.

User avatar
BoSoxGal
Posts: 18299
Joined: Tue Apr 06, 2010 10:36 pm
Location: The Heart of Red Sox Nation

Re: Graveyard of Empires

Post by BoSoxGal »

Jarlaxle wrote:
Fri Oct 01, 2021 11:49 pm
Econoline wrote:
Fri Oct 01, 2021 9:25 pm
Scooter wrote:
Fri Oct 01, 2021 5:42 pm
The point is you will end up with a lot of dead Americans, because you will have made half the world (or more) your enemy with such an act. To say nothing of your allies not lifting a finger to come to your aid when they attack you.
THIS.

Starting a war and creating a vast number of new enemy combatants is *NOT* a way to prevent loss of American lives.
I agree completely.
So you’re withdrawing your assertion that we should obliterate 32,000,000 Afghanis?
For me, it is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring.
~ Carl Sagan

Jarlaxle
Posts: 5370
Joined: Sun Apr 25, 2010 4:21 am
Location: New England

Re: Graveyard of Empires

Post by Jarlaxle »

BoSoxGal wrote:
Sat Oct 02, 2021 12:32 am
Jarlaxle wrote:
Fri Oct 01, 2021 11:49 pm
Econoline wrote:
Fri Oct 01, 2021 9:25 pm
THIS.

Starting a war and creating a vast number of new enemy combatants is *NOT* a way to prevent loss of American lives.
I agree completely.
So you’re withdrawing your assertion that we should obliterate 32,000,000 Afghanis?
No.

User avatar
BoSoxGal
Posts: 18299
Joined: Tue Apr 06, 2010 10:36 pm
Location: The Heart of Red Sox Nation

Re: Graveyard of Empires

Post by BoSoxGal »

Bye, Jarl.
For me, it is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring.
~ Carl Sagan

rubato
Posts: 14213
Joined: Sun May 09, 2010 10:14 pm

Re: Graveyard of Empires

Post by rubato »

Bicycle Bill wrote:
Tue Sep 28, 2021 6:35 pm
liberty wrote:
Tue Sep 28, 2021 4:56 pm
Afghanistan's lesson is not to listen to fools like Colin Powell but realistic men dick Cheney. Cry havoc and let slip the dogs of war and make a desert and call it peace.
Next, you'll be parroting that other famous line that came out of Vietnam — "Kill 'em all and let God sort 'em out."
..."
The first use of this sentiment was in the attack of vatican troops on a city with a large Cathar population. This was roughly 1200 AD and the popish troops had surrounded a city with a large Cathar population. The Catholics had refused to turn over the Cathars to be murdered because they were valued friends. The Monk put in charge of the extermination told the Roman general "just be sure you kill all the heretics" to which the general replied "how will I know the good
Christians from the heretics?" To which the priest said "Touez les tous. Le Dieux reconnatrie les siens" (kill them all, god will know his own).

A rare case of successful genocide.

yrs,

rubato

User avatar
MajGenl.Meade
Posts: 20706
Joined: Sun Apr 25, 2010 8:51 am
Location: Groot Brakrivier
Contact:

Re: Graveyard of Empires

Post by MajGenl.Meade »

liberty wrote:
Tue Sep 28, 2021 11:13 pm
I believe that expression predates Vietnam; I might be wrong, but I think it goes back to the suppression of the Cathars in southern France in the Middle Ages. The Catholic commander was asked how to distinguish the Cathars from the Catholics in a particular town. And the commander said kill them all God knows his own.
Several days late, dollar not so short, rube
For Christianity, by identifying truth with faith, must teach-and, properly understood, does teach-that any interference with the truth is immoral. A Christian with faith has nothing to fear from the facts

Jarlaxle
Posts: 5370
Joined: Sun Apr 25, 2010 4:21 am
Location: New England

Re: Graveyard of Empires

Post by Jarlaxle »

Be gentle to Ozzie...he was never the sharpest spoon in the drawer.

ex-khobar Andy
Posts: 5419
Joined: Sat Dec 19, 2015 4:16 am
Location: Louisville KY as of July 2018

Re: Graveyard of Empires

Post by ex-khobar Andy »

Rube needs to brush up his French. Dieu, not Dieux, if in French. However the original was more likely in Latin - Caedite eos. Novit enim Dominus qui sunt eius. - or it's possible the monk quoted the underlined bit of 2 Timothy 2:19 "Sed firmum fundamentum Dei stetit habens signaculum hoc cognovit Dominus qui sunt eius et discedat ab iniquitate omnis qui nominat nomen Domini." (Vulgate translation; which was then extant but not yet accepted as the official Latin version.)

rubato
Posts: 14213
Joined: Sun May 09, 2010 10:14 pm

Re: Graveyard of Empires

Post by rubato »

MajGenl.Meade wrote:
Sun Oct 03, 2021 6:29 am
liberty wrote:
Tue Sep 28, 2021 11:13 pm
I believe that expression predates Vietnam; I might be wrong, but I think it goes back to the suppression of the Cathars in southern France in the Middle Ages. The Catholic commander was asked how to distinguish the Cathars from the Catholics in a particular town. And the commander said kill them all God knows his own.
Several days late, dollar not so short, rube
I don't as a rule read liberty's posts and deny that doing so is a fault. I'm surprised that you do. I lack the taste for intellectual coprology. And in this case
I provided additional historical information. ( The successful religious genocide and the fact that the Catholics defended their Cathar neighbors. Making them the Denmark of the middle ages.)

I have referred to this event several times over the past years.

Did I misspell a word? That at least is not shameful as pointing it out surely is. Weak.


yrs,
rubato

Jarlaxle
Posts: 5370
Joined: Sun Apr 25, 2010 4:21 am
Location: New England

Re: Graveyard of Empires

Post by Jarlaxle »

Ozzie, you're so full of shit your breath stinks.

User avatar
MajGenl.Meade
Posts: 20706
Joined: Sun Apr 25, 2010 8:51 am
Location: Groot Brakrivier
Contact:

Re: Graveyard of Empires

Post by MajGenl.Meade »

rubato wrote:
Tue Oct 05, 2021 2:46 am

I don't as a rule read liberty's posts and deny that doing so is a fault. I'm surprised that you do. I lack the taste for intellectual coprology.
(abbreviated for pity's sake)

That's a long way of saying, "I leaped in waving my dick about without knowing it had already been done because I don't bother reading what's there"

Good line about the intellectual coprology though. (And I recognize you were not kicking my shins about a spelling /typing error).
For Christianity, by identifying truth with faith, must teach-and, properly understood, does teach-that any interference with the truth is immoral. A Christian with faith has nothing to fear from the facts

Jarlaxle
Posts: 5370
Joined: Sun Apr 25, 2010 4:21 am
Location: New England

Re: Graveyard of Empires

Post by Jarlaxle »

That has been Ozzie's default for years now...he's a seagull.

ex-khobar Andy
Posts: 5419
Joined: Sat Dec 19, 2015 4:16 am
Location: Louisville KY as of July 2018

Re: Graveyard of Empires

Post by ex-khobar Andy »

From The Atlantic:

What I Learned While Hunting Humans

And how our drone policy led to the deaths of seven children
Hunting wasn’t a part of my childhood. The closest I got was the time my uncle taught my brother and me to shoot a .22 at the windows of some decrepit building on his land in Georgia. He showed us how to put the stock in the crook of our shoulder so the kick wouldn’t surprise us (though it still did; I’d have sworn my shoulder was dislocated); how to focus on the front sight, not the target; and how to softly squeeze the trigger to shoot. Between the two of us and half a box of ammo, I think we took out a single window. But he had planned for this: The building was at the back of his property, with only woods behind it, so in the (evidently) likely event that we missed, no harm would come from the stray bullets.

I didn’t learn to actually hunt until I was an adult. I was taught how much patience it requires, how important it is to stay calm, how if you let the adrenaline take over, it’ll probably screw up your aim. I was taught that missing is bad, shame-worthy even, and that being a marksman is something to be proud of. And I was taught to count my kills, to make sure I recorded them, so that others would know and celebrate my accomplishments.

I was taught these things in my training in the Air Force. I was taught these things so that I could hunt humans. On August 29, when the United States fired a missile that was supposed to stop an ISIS-K attack at the Kabul airport during our withdrawal—but turned out to be an error that killed 10 civilians—this is what it was doing: hunting.

I’ve never operated a drone, but I have hunted from on high, in gunships, thousands of feet above the earth. I was an airborne cryptologic linguist, tasked with providing threat warning to the planes I was on and to the troops on the ground. Threat warning takes many forms, but it often results in the elimination of that threat. Sometimes that meant being a part of a team effort to kill, one crewmember among many who collectively contributed to death. Sometimes I simply confirmed information so that the order to fire could be given. Sometimes I gave the order. I don’t know if all of these kills belong to me. I just know that I belong to all of them.

Like the operator of the drone on August 29, I’ve hunted for hours on end, collecting information, searching for a target, hoping it would come out of hiding. On all of these missions, once we found our target, we needed permission to engage it. Sometimes that permission had to come from a colonel at a base hundreds of miles away, over the Afghan mountains. Other times, it only had to come from the joint terminal attack controller, or JTAC, the guy on the ground who was being shot at and who had been entrusted with the power to kill those who were threatening him.

Ostensibly, drone strikes also require permission. The Obama administration liked to say that every drone strike needed the White House’s approval. That’s not true. During my time in the Air Force, only drone strikes in certain places—such as Somalia, Yemen, and sometimes Pakistan—required a presidential green light. Strikes in Afghanistan could be approved at much lower levels.

I’d like to take a moment to address the language used here. A drone “strike.” A strike being an attack, a hit, a use of force. How innocuous. The name of the missile that was used on August 29, a Hellfire, is a little scarier, perhaps, but these terms have become such a part of modern life that we’ve grown inured to any fear they were intended to invoke.
I've copied about half the piece. It's worth reading. If anyone cannot get to it I can copy and paste the rest.

rubato
Posts: 14213
Joined: Sun May 09, 2010 10:14 pm

Re: Graveyard of Empires

Post by rubato »

MajGenl.Meade wrote:
Tue Oct 05, 2021 11:37 am
rubato wrote:
Tue Oct 05, 2021 2:46 am

I don't as a rule read liberty's posts and deny that doing so is a fault. I'm surprised that you do. I lack the taste for intellectual coprology.
(abbreviated for pity's sake)

That's a long way of saying, "I leaped in waving my dick about without knowing it had already been done because I don't bother reading what's there"

Good line about the intellectual coprology though. (And I recognize you were not kicking my shins about a spelling /typing error).
No, that is a short way of saying "libertys posts are valueless crap and only a moron reads them" and so far, you have shown no reason to think otherwise. Meaning you have an attraction to shit and cant help yourself. Sorry for you. Asshole. Keep reading shit since it pleases you.

yrs
rubato

Post Reply