Plan B Forum

Should the country divide into two nations? It might be the only answer. That would be a shame because it would result in two weaker nations in place of one strong country. But when the progressive, liberal communists want to turn the United States from a federation into an empire, what choice do we have? I'm becoming convinced that the Democrats want to destroy the country or at least the economy. Inflation is now 6%, and they don't appear to give a damn. They say that it's temporary inflation, but once wages go up, they won't go down, which means permanent inflation. Should we divide the country? If a country is going to hell, what can we do? The only thing we can do is try to save what we can. Dividing the country might be the only solution. Don't you agree it'd be better than civil war?

Please don't give me this stuff that it is treason. The federal government is a social construct we made it we can unmake it. If anything should be sacred, it should be the constitution, but liberals want to subvert it. They want to eliminate all provisions that do not support what they want. They want to give special privileges to specific groups of Americans over others. So they believe in inequality. They want to take away the property of the wealthy, which is not allowed by the constitution. I'm not rich, but that doesn't stop me from seeing that it is wrong to take other people's money because they have it and you want it, and they are a small minority. If you grab their money, how long before you take my property or people even poorer than me? No one's rights are safe unless everyone's rights are safe, and that includes the rich.




Poll: Majority of Trump Voters Want Red States to Secede from Blue States - Dr. Rich Swier (drrichswier.com)

Poll: Majority of Trump Voters Want Red States to Secede from Blue States
October 4, 2021/in Commentary, Culture War, Elections, News, Policy, Politics /by Pamela Geller
Count me among them. It would avert a. bloody civil war.
It’s free states versus slave states ….. again.

Poll: Majority of Trump Voters Want Red States to Secede from Blue States
By: Breitbart News, October 3, 2021:

When the survey asked voters who supported then-candidate Joe Biden in 2020, 41 percent agreed with the same statement, and 18 percent strongly agreed with the statement.

“The divide between Trump and Biden voters is deep, wide, and dangerous. The scope is unprecedented, and it will not be easily fixed,” UVA Center for Politics Director Larry J. Sabato said.
The majority of both sets of voters agreed that someone voting for a candidate from the opposing party is disloyal to the people they care about: 54 percent for Trump voters and 52 percent for Biden voters.

The poll also revealed that over 40 percent of voters in both parties favor abolishing the checks and balances built into the federal government and giving the president greater control: 44 percent for Trump voters and 46 percent for Biden voters.
However, over 75 percent of both parties also agreed with the statement that Americans who support the opposite party present a “clear and present danger to the American way of life.”

“In order to figure out ways to bridge these divides, we need to understand not just the divides themselves, but also understand the ways in which we can, together, move forward to reach common ground. This project helps us do both,” Larry Schack of Project Home Fire said.

The poll was taken from July 22 to August 4 with the help of InnovateMR — an industry-leading marketing research data collection firm — to collect data from a series of questions.

There were 2,002 2020 voters who were asked questions. They were divided equally between 1,001 Trump voters from 2020 and 1,001 Biden voters from 2020. There is a margin of error from this survey of +/- 2.2 percent.

Let's just assume that the 'Red States' do decide to dissolve the ties that bind them to the United States of America. and let's further assume that the 'Blue States' are willing to let them go without fighting a second War of the Rebellion (that's the 'official' name of the 1861-1865 Civil War, btw, at least so far as the government of the United States is concerned).

The difficulty in setting up an entirely new form of government, with its own laws, constitution, treaties and acceptance by the rest of the world's governments, monetary system (What? You thought you were gonna keep on using OUR currency and coinage?), and military (ditto — you think the Pentagon and the rest of the government wouldn't immediately shut down and strip bare every military base, barracks, depot, training camp, or other government-run facility — including the Center for Disease Control in Atlanta, Cape Canaveral, or the Johnson Space Center in Texas — within these renegade territories?), just to mention a few of the stumbling blocks, would convince even the most dyed-in-the-wool Southern redneck that this would be, in simple terms, a VERY. BAD. IDEA.

Add to that the fact that several companies — think Coca-Cola in Atlanta, for example, or the car manufacturers that relocated production to places in the south to take advantage of the lower costs of production there — would not doubt relocate their facilities elsewhere, or face the fact that they would have to deal with the rest of the United States as a foreign company, subject to all tariffs and restrictions that might apply... So there goes a lot of your economic base as well.

And, of course, the next time Hurricane Whoever comes ashore in New Orleans or Charleston or Miami or anywhere else along the Gulf/southern Atlantic seaboard, or the weather dips below freezing in Dallas again, don't come calling, hat in hand, for FEMA to bail your ass out either.

All this talk of secession or forming a new country is just that ... talk, the same sort of bullshit balloon-juice you can hear in any bar after the fifth round of Bud Lites or Jack-and-Cokes have had their chance to get to work. And it has just about as much meaning and value as that sort of noise, too.

-"BB"-

Where is LJ’s is exploding irony meter?

Go, please go. Get the hell out of my country and don’t let the door hit you in the ass on the way out. Take Alabama, Mississippi, Florida, Georgia, Oklahoma, Tennessee, Kentucky, and probably Missouri, Nebraska, and Ohio with you.

Guinevere wrote: ↑

Sun Oct 10, 2021 11:27 pm

Where is LJ’s is exploding irony meter?

Go, please go. Get the hell out of my country and don’t let the door hit you in the ass on the way out. Take Alabama, Mississippi, Florida, Georgia, Oklahoma, Tennessee, Kentucky, and probably Missouri, Nebraska, and Ohio with you.

Don't leave out Indiana, Wyoming, Montana, South Carolina. Climate change is going to wipe out the coasts anyway and leave a big, blue smudge.

The U.S. is already divided into two nations. There are the MAGA and now MAGAA idiots who mostly call themselves "Patriots" and then there are the people who have an IQ over 45.

What really needs to be done is Donald J Trump should be divided into pieces and fed to the hogs.

Joe Guy wrote: ↑

Mon Oct 11, 2021 1:45 am

What really needs to be done is Donald J Trump should be divided into pieces and fed to the hogs.

Why do you hate hogs so much? What have they done to deserve this?

ex-khobar Andy wrote: ↑

Mon Oct 11, 2021 2:00 am

Why do you hate hogs so much? What have they done to deserve this?

I don't hate hogs. I think a disgraced twice impeached one term president could feed a lot of hungry hogs. Let me be clear: I don't think any hogs should be forced to eat our former president. Hogs should have the right to choose.

Joe Guy wrote: ↑

Mon Oct 11, 2021 2:53 am

ex-khobar Andy wrote: ↑

Mon Oct 11, 2021 2:00 am

Why do you hate hogs so much? What have they done to deserve this?

I don't hate hogs. I think a disgraced twice impeached one term president could feed a lot of hungry hogs. Let me be clear: I don't think any hogs should be forced to eat our former president. Hogs should have the right to choose.

Funny, pretty good

Setting aside lib's insulting editorializing, this more restrained report may be of interest. It is certainly alarming, though hardly surprising. (On a related matter, we should have a survey as to when, if ever, lib will learn and apply simple editing out of sub-headings, photo captions and other debris from his quotes?)

Is not "somewhat agree" identical to "mostly disagree"? Perhaps the choice of phrase is down to the desire of the survey minions to push buttons.

https://centerforpolitics.org/crystalba ... mp-voters/

The University of Virginia Center for Politics has partnered with Project Home Fire, a new initiative dedicated to finding common ground in American politics, on an innovative new data analytics and polling project to explore the social, political, and psychological divides between those who voted for Donald Trump and those who voted for Joe Biden in 2020.

Some of the key takeaways from today’s release are:

— Majorities of Trump and Biden voters express support for several elements of the bipartisan infrastructure and reconciliation bills being debated in Congress, but there are marked differences in their levels of support. (see Table 1 below)

— Majorities — often large majorities — of both Biden and Trump voters express some form of distrust for voters, elected officials, and media sources they associate with the other side. A strong majority of Trump voters see no real difference between Democrats and socialists, and a majority of Biden voters at least somewhat agree that there is no real difference between Republicans and fascists. (see Table 2 below)

— Significant numbers of both Trump and Biden voters show a willingness to consider violating democratic tendencies and norms if needed to serve their priorities. Roughly 2 in 10 Trump and Biden voters strongly agree it would be better if a “President could take needed actions without being constrained by Congress or courts,” and roughly 4 in 10 (41%) of Biden and half (52%) of Trump voters at least somewhat agree that it’s time to split the country, favoring blue/red states seceding from the union. (see Table 3 below)

ex-khobar Andy wrote: ↑

Mon Oct 11, 2021 2:00 am

Why do you hate hogs so much? What have they done to deserve this?

McRib sandwich.

MajGenl.Meade wrote: ↑

Mon Oct 11, 2021 4:55 am

Setting aside lib's insulting editorializing

Those are not insults; those are observations. Whoever finds them insulting, I suggest they grow some skin. And as for my copying and pasting, I edit it as best I can, but my time is quite limited, and I put most of my effort into my writing. So if you can't live with it, that's too bad. And you can always click on the link I provide, and if you can't handle that, you can do as Bebe once said, "you can kiss my brown starfish." Sorry, BeBe, for the copyright infringement. Should I put a check in the mail to you?

Joe Guy wrote: ↑

Mon Oct 11, 2021 1:45 am

The U.S. is already divided into two nations. There are the MAGA and now MAGAA idiots who mostly call themselves "Patriots" and then there are the people who have an IQ over 45.

What really needs to be done is Donald J Trump should be divided into pieces and fed to the hogs.

If you believe in fairness, you really can't blame the divide on Trump; it existed long before Trump. It goes back to Vietnam when the left in this country chose the communist instead of freedom. Don't tell me they didn't because I had conversations with liberal friends and acquaintances at the time. I remember them saying things like the Soviet Union is morally superior to the United States. And the Soviet Union represents the future, and the United States represents the decadence past. And the left fought the police in the streets to end the draft and give the communists victory. They provided moral support for Castro and I have no reason to believe they have changed.

This could have gone in the "Quotable Quotes" thread, but it fits perfectly here:

“For every complex problem, there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong.”
— H.L. Mencken

Don't tell me they didn't because I had conversations with liberal friends and acquaintances at the time. I remember them saying things like the Soviet Union is morally superior to the United States. And the Soviet Union represents the future, and the United States represents the decadence past. And the left fought the police in the streets to end the draft and give the communists victory. They provided moral support for Castro and I have no reason to believe they have changed.

Your few friends who you characterize as "liberals" (if they even exist) speak for the entire left? Please.

liberty wrote: ↑

Thu Oct 14, 2021 3:18 am

If you believe in fairness, you really can't blame the divide on Trump; it existed long before Trump. It goes back to Vietnam when the left in this country chose the communist instead of freedom. Don't tell me they didn't because I had conversations with liberal friends and acquaintances at the time. I remember them saying things like the Soviet Union is morally superior to the United States. And the Soviet Union represents the future, and the United States represents the decadence past. And the left fought the police in the streets to end the draft and give the communists victory. They provided moral support for Castro and I have no reason to believe they have changed.

And for every person you could trot out who supposedly said things like "the USSR was morally superior to the US" or "The USSR represents the future" (and btw — the future is now; where's the USSR?), I could probably match you man-for-man with the people who were screaming things like, "Better dead than Red", "America — Love It or Leave It", or espoused the 'Domino Theory' — that if we didn't fight them in SE Asia, we'd end up fighting them on the beaches of Santa Barbara.  And they even formed their own party in 1968 — The American Independent Party; and ran their own candidate (USAF General Curtis "Bombs Away" LeMay), because they didn't think mainline Republicans were war-mongerish enough.

But the Republicans still took over the White House between 1969 and 1977... and — if I might be pardoned for bringing up past political pecadilloes of the GOP — resorted to some pretty underhanded tricks and strategies to keep their man in office in 1972. And they must have at least listened to some of the far right wing, for it was during this time that Vietnamization increased. The hawks were in control; Nixon approved the mining of Haiphong harbor, and it was during this tenure that most of the battles and firefights were fought and the lives were lost. And it was Nixon himself who proclaimed that we had achieved "peace with honor" and would start withdrawing troops — which he did, with the result that Saigon fell at the end of April 1975; but by that time Nixon was back in San Clemente with his consolation prize (Ford's pardon) in hand.

As for those people who DID protest the foolishness that was American military policy in SE Asia, my personal experiences from that time period tell me that it was because they could see that Vietnam and SE Asia was a huge quagmire filled with quicksand, mud bogs, and sinkholes... They remembered that the French had tried for some twenty years, without success, to pacify VietNam, and they also remembered the fiasco that was the UN response to Korea and how much and how many lives were wasted there. They could see clearly that this was going to be more of the same, and they knew that But the Pentagon, the hawks and hard-liners in government, and the 'Archie Bunkers' of the day were looking at this from within the hole and the only tools they seemed to have were bigger and bigger shovels, so they kept right on a-digging, all under the pretense of "resolve" — as in, we've got too much time, money, and lives invested in this to turn and walk away ... until it became apparent, even to them, that this whole thing was an unwinnable game that they should never have started to play, and finally, after some 50K lives were lost and countless hundreds of thousands were otherwise altered, cut their losses and folded.

-"BB"-

One minor correction, Bill: The American Independent Party was founded and headed by George Wallace (who obviously had more issues than the war in Vietnam); Curtis "Bomb 'em Back to the Stone Age" LeMay was his VP on the 1968 ballot.

liberty wrote: ↑

Thu Oct 14, 2021 3:18 am

If you believe in fairness, you really can't blame the divide on Trump; it existed long before Trump. It goes back to Vietnam when the left in this country chose the communist instead of freedom. Don't tell me they didn't because I had conversations with liberal friends and acquaintances at the time. I remember them saying things like the Soviet Union is morally superior to the United States. And the Soviet Union represents the future, and the United States represents the decadence past. And the left fought the police in the streets to end the draft and give the communists victory. They provided moral support for Castro and I have no reason to believe they have changed.

Must have been pals with L H Oswald, eh? Your conversations were not with liberals but with communists evidently. Pity you can't tell the difference.

I'm intrigued by this "fought the police in the streets to end the draft". Do you mean the Chicago police riot of '68 or the National Guard shootings at Kent State or . . . well, what exactly? How about June 23, 1967 when police attacked a peaceful protest in Los Angeles? Maybe you hark back to the New York draft riots of July 1863 when the liberal (!) Irish attacked the Draft Boards and then began lynching blacks?

Do you mean the 1969 Days of Rage in Chicago when the very-much-not-liberal Weathermen (all of 300 strong) attacked police lines and got their asses handed to them? Not so much about stopping the draft though - just general anti-imperialist-running-dog-lackey-government hatred.

Maybe you're thinking of the 1970 Chicano Moratorium, the one where police attacked the demonstrators, killing three including a journalist

The only thing you got right in that post is this: "it existed long before Trump". And that's historically interesting but essentially irrelevant to dealing with the problem as it now exists.

Pity you can't tell the difference.

Can't tell the difference? To him there is no difference--anyone who disagrees with him is a communist who celebrates Stalin and Mao and seeks to enslave the world. Hell, even the nazis were communists (they were called the national socialist party, after all). But corrupt thugs like Diem and Thieu and Batista--they were leaders loving people who wanted to protect democracy, and anyone should be proud to die protecting them; anyone who questions or objects to this is a communist.

Econoline wrote: ↑

Thu Oct 14, 2021 5:10 am

This could have gone in the "Quotable Quotes" thread, but it fits perfectly here:

“For every complex problem, there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong.”
— H.L. Mencken