WWIII? Or just a little fuckery?

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BoSoxGal
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Re: WWIII? Or just a little fuckery?

Post by BoSoxGal »

If it could be proven that Putin directed the attack on the Nord Stream pipelines, does this constitute an act of war on NATO countries?
For me, it is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring.
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liberty
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Re: WWIII? Or just a little fuckery?

Post by liberty »

Hopefully, that is not wishful thinking; generals, even great generals, can fall victim to the phenomenon. But, like that Great American philosopher once said, it ain't over until it's over, and that's especially true of war.

Russian Army at 'Breaking Point' After Putin's Lyman Defeat: Lt. General (msn.com)

Retired U.S. Army Lieutenant General H.R. McMaster said Sunday that Russia's army may be at the edge of "collapse" after it faced defeat in Lyman—the previously occupied Ukrainian city where Russian forces retreated on Saturday.
The loss in Lyman, which was used as a transportation hub amid Russia's invasion, has been viewed as a major setback for Russian President Vladimir Putin, who just a day before troops withdrew from the city had illegally annexed four regions of Ukraine including Luhansk, Kherson, Zaporizhzhia and Donetsk, the latter in which Lyman is located.


Appearing on CBS's Face the Nation, host Margaret Brennan asked McMaster about Ukraine's recent victory.
"What do you see happening, and what do you forecast is Vladimir Putin's next move?" Brennan asked.
McMaster said he believes that Saturday's success for Ukraine "could turn into a cascading series of defeats of Russian forces," and added that "what we might be at here is really at the precipice of really the collapse of the Russian army in Ukraine, a moral collapse. I think they must really be at a breaking point."
I expected to be placed in an air force combat position such as security police, forward air control, pararescue or E.O.D. I would have liked dog handler. I had heard about the dog Nemo and was highly impressed. “SFB” is sad I didn’t end up in E.O.D.

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Joe Guy
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Re: WWIII? Or just a little fuckery?

Post by Joe Guy »

liberty wrote:
Mon Oct 03, 2022 3:38 am
Hopefully, that is not wishful thinking; generals, even great generals, can fall victim to the phenomenon. But, like that Great American philosopher once said, it ain't over until it's over, and that's especially true of war.....
Which brings to mind something I'd like to hear from Putin someday soon....

Nobody in our army goes into Ukraine anymore. It's too crowded.

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Re: WWIII? Or just a little fuckery?

Post by ex-khobar Andy »

My memory glands are not what they were, but lib: haven't you been telling us for the last few years how those pesky Ruskies would wipe the floor with us once they decide to come down the Trans-Arctic SuperHighway?

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Sue U
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Re: WWIII? Or just a little fuckery?

Post by Sue U »

ex-khobar Andy wrote:
Mon Oct 03, 2022 7:53 am
My memory glands are not what they were, but lib: haven't you been telling us for the last few years how those pesky Ruskies would wipe the floor with us once they decide to come down the Trans-Arctic SuperHighway?
You don't get it, XKA. Ukrainians are a hearty race of the western steppe; we are mud people.
GAH!

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Re: WWIII? Or just a little fuckery?

Post by liberty »

Sue U wrote:
Mon Oct 03, 2022 1:52 pm
ex-khobar Andy wrote:
Mon Oct 03, 2022 7:53 am
My memory glands are not what they were, but lib: haven't you been telling us for the last few years how those pesky Ruskies would wipe the floor with us once they decide to come down the Trans-Arctic SuperHighway?
You don't get it, XKA. Ukrainians are a hearty race of the western steppe; we are mud people.
You got it, mud girl, but it's not genetics; it's culture, and eventually, the Ukrainians will lose their edge, too; it seems that sooner or later, it happens to everybody.

Ukraine is located on the western steppes, but something most people don't know about Ukraine is that it's the home of the fabled Amazons. I believe that the Amazons were real people, but not as the Greeks portrayed them. All we know of them is based on stories brought back to Greece by sailors, traders, and Greek mercenaries.

I especially disagree with the man-hating part of the Greek legends of the Amazons. To the Greeks, the site of fierce female warriors was something they couldn't wrap their heads around. So in the mind of the male dominant Greeks, if women took up arms, it must be because they hated men. But I think there's a much more reasonable explanation: At some point, a tribe or a nation lost most of their men in some ferocious war on the steppes but managed to escape capture. In ancient times the steppes was a brutal place. If people could not defend themselves, they faced a bleak future. The most one could hope for was a swift death for men and women to be enslaved after watching their male children tortured and killed. So instead of accepting that fate, the women took the place of their dead husbands and became the warriors of the tribe not because they hated men but because they loved the ones they had left and wanted to protect them. We know from archaeological excavations of steppe burial mounds that female warriors we're not unusual, so the case of a tribe being composed of almost all female warriors is not beyond reason.
I expected to be placed in an air force combat position such as security police, forward air control, pararescue or E.O.D. I would have liked dog handler. I had heard about the dog Nemo and was highly impressed. “SFB” is sad I didn’t end up in E.O.D.

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Sue U
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Re: WWIII? Or just a little fuckery?

Post by Sue U »

liberty wrote:
Mon Oct 03, 2022 4:28 pm
I believe that the Amazons were real people
And I believe that I am the Queen of France. :roll: :roll: :roll: "Making shit up" =/= historical fact or even probability.
GAH!

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Re: WWIII? Or just a little fuckery?

Post by liberty »

Sue U wrote:
Tue Oct 04, 2022 3:11 pm
liberty wrote:
Mon Oct 03, 2022 4:28 pm
I believe that the Amazons were real people
And I believe that I am the Queen of France. :roll: :roll: :roll: "Making shit up" =/= historical fact or even probability.

It appears that many or most ancient legends of history were based on some kernel of fact, whereas the so-called modern oral history, for the most part, is crap. Stories that are portrayed as history, but are made up out of thin air. The ancient writers were wrong about many things, but I don't think they were intentional lies; they believed what they wrote.



New Evidence Of Legendary Women Warriors / Graves support ancient tale of Amazone tribes (sfgate.com)

Across the vast steppes of southern Russia, where Kazak nomads still herd their flocks, American and Russian archaeologists have uncovered the bones and weapons of women warriors whose existence has been legend since Herodotus first described a mysterious race of "Amazons" nearly 2,500 years ago.

For centuries, the Greek historian's writings have conjured controversy, and none more so than his account of his journey in 450 B.C. to Scythian lands north of the Black Sea, where Herodotus heard tales of armed women riding on horseback out of the Eastern steppes. The women, Herodotus heard from Scythian tribes in the region, were fierce "killers of men," whose tribal laws barred them from marriage until they had slain an enemy in battle.
I expected to be placed in an air force combat position such as security police, forward air control, pararescue or E.O.D. I would have liked dog handler. I had heard about the dog Nemo and was highly impressed. “SFB” is sad I didn’t end up in E.O.D.

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BoSoxGal
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Re: WWIII? Or just a little fuckery?

Post by BoSoxGal »

With what we can observe today about the relative heroism of men and women I don’t know why anyone would quarrel with the assertion that women have been accomplished warriors whenever necessary throughout human history.

The truth of that, and the archaeological evidence in Ukraine and many other places around the globe of women buried with their weapons of war, should be awesome enough on its own without needing to bring myth into the equation.

Although I can certainly understand the appeal of a society protected and nurtured by women warriors, even to men. Surely most of you figure out by middle age at least what a big fucking scam patriarchy is, and how clueless and violent so many of you are. Definitely not the better sex.
For me, it is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring.
~ Carl Sagan

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Sue U
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Re: WWIII? Or just a little fuckery?

Post by Sue U »

liberty wrote:
Tue Oct 04, 2022 3:41 pm
It appears that many or most ancient legends of history were based on some kernel of fact, whereas the so-called modern oral history, for the most part, is crap. Stories that are portrayed as history, but are made up out of thin air. The ancient writers were wrong about many things, but I don't think they were intentional lies; they believed what they wrote.
I have no doubt that there were women warriors among the Scythians of the ancient world, and their excavated graves proves it. That is a very very veeerrrrrrrry long way from "a tribe of women warriors whose laws prohibited marriage until they had slain an enemy in battle," which is a cartoon fantasy, as is your "much more reasonable explanation" that "a tribe or a nation lost most of their men in some ferocious war on the steppes but managed to escape capture . . . ."

Herodotus was as much or more a storyteller than he was a historian, and his work includes myths and legends -- some he himself probably made up -- because there was no formal field or study of "history" at that time. Later Greek and Roman historians --even in antiquity-- trashed his reports as ranging from improbable to outright lies and slanders. And more than a few of those myths and legends were themselves subsequently embellished, exaggerated and repurposed by the Greeks for their own social and political purposes, about which most readers today are absolutely clueless. So whether any story is "based on some kernel of fact" is meaningless; Dr. Strangelove is "based on some kernel of fact" about the Cold War, but it is not the history of the world's nuclear destruction in 1965.
GAH!

liberty
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Re: WWIII? Or just a little fuckery?

Post by liberty »

Sue U wrote:
Tue Oct 04, 2022 4:40 pm
liberty wrote:
Tue Oct 04, 2022 3:41 pm
It appears that many or most ancient legends of history were based on some kernel of fact, whereas the so-called modern oral history, for the most part, is crap. Stories that are portrayed as history, but are made up out of thin air. The ancient writers were wrong about many things, but I don't think they were intentional lies; they believed what they wrote.
I have no doubt that there were women warriors among the Scythians of the ancient world, and their excavated graves proves it. That is a very very veeerrrrrrrry long way from "a tribe of women warriors whose laws prohibited marriage until they had slain an enemy in battle," which is a cartoon fantasy, as is your "much more reasonable explanation" that "a tribe or a nation lost most of their men in some ferocious war on the steppes but managed to escape capture . . . ."

Herodotus was as much or more a storyteller than he was a historian, and his work includes myths and legends -- some he himself probably made up -- because there was no formal field or study of "history" at that time. Later Greek and Roman historians --even in antiquity-- trashed his reports as ranging from improbable to outright lies and slanders. And more than a few of those myths and legends were themselves subsequently embellished, exaggerated and repurposed by the Greeks for their own social and political purposes, about which most readers today are absolutely clueless. So whether any story is "based on some kernel of fact" is meaningless; Dr. Strangelove is "based on some kernel of fact" about the Cold War, but it is not the history of the world's nuclear destruction in 1965.
That means nothing; whether or not someone is criticized for their writings has no effect on the truth. If you remember, the ancient mariner Pytheas of Marseille,330 B. C. was condemned as a liar and a fraud when he published the story of his journey to the north of Europe. The things he mentioned proved he was a liar in the minds of the Mediterranean people of the time. There was no way there could be a place where the sun shined for weeks and ice floated in the sea. Unfortunately for Pytheas, it was several hundred years before he was proven correct, but by then he was long since dead.

I still believe that there was most likely a steppe tribe composed of a large number of women warriors and quite possibly had a female leader or queen as their ruler. Do you remember Boudicca of the Iceni tribe of celts? And they were not necessarily a Scythian tribe; women warriors on the steppes were not unusual. I doubt they called themselves amazons; the Greeks called them amazons which is as good a name as any others since we don't know their actual name.

The Greeks would have found the idea of the amazons ridiculous. Most of the ancient Mediterranean world was male-dominated, and the idea of women warriors was unbelievable. To them, women were not fighters but trophies taken by the victor after the fight.
I expected to be placed in an air force combat position such as security police, forward air control, pararescue or E.O.D. I would have liked dog handler. I had heard about the dog Nemo and was highly impressed. “SFB” is sad I didn’t end up in E.O.D.

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Re: WWIII? Or just a little fuckery?

Post by Burning Petard »

I took a class called Classical European History 201 in 1967 at Central Michigan University and Herodotus was treated as if everything he wrote was actual factual description of actual events.

snailgate.

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Re: WWIII? Or just a little fuckery?

Post by ex-khobar Andy »

Oh I hope not BP/SG. Herodotus was usually clear about what he had seen and what he had been told and much of what he had been told was obviously fanciful. I must admit I lapped it up when I was 13 / 14 because boys of that age do enjoy a bit of smut especially when they can plead it was homework. Herodotus (Greek) and Catullus (Latin) were great sources of information about the opposite sex.

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Re: WWIII? Or just a little fuckery?

Post by BoSoxGal »

Ok, but Thucydides told the unbiased truth about the Peloponnesian War - that’s what sets him apart, isn’t it?
For me, it is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring.
~ Carl Sagan

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Re: WWIII? Or just a little fuckery?

Post by Bicycle Bill »

Two Jewish guys from Odessa meet up.  One asks the other, "So what's the situation?  What are people saying?"

The second man says, "What are people saying?  They're saying it's a war."

"What war?"

"Russia is fighting NATO."

"Are you serious?"

"Yes, yes!  Russia is fighting NATO!"

"So how's it going?"

"Well...  70,000 Russian soldiers are dead.  Their missile stockpiles have been almost totally depleted.  And a lot of equipment has been damaged, blown up."

"And what about NATO?"

"NATO hasn't even arrived yet."

Image
-"BB"-
Yes, I suppose I could agree with you ... but then we'd both be wrong, wouldn't we?

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Re: WWIII? Or just a little fuckery?

Post by BoSoxGal »

For me, it is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring.
~ Carl Sagan

liberty
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Re: WWIII? Or just a little fuckery?

Post by liberty »

I wouldn't doubt it, considering that Russia is now a full-fledged dictatorship; there's no one to counter Putin's propaganda. It is a shame Russia would make an excellent refuge for my people. Russia is a land of outstanding potential for wealth and prosperity because of its natural resources. It is now closed to my people. Periods of extreme oppression and mass murders against the Jews have happened before in Russia. It is good advice for Jews to get out of Russia before it happens.
I expected to be placed in an air force combat position such as security police, forward air control, pararescue or E.O.D. I would have liked dog handler. I had heard about the dog Nemo and was highly impressed. “SFB” is sad I didn’t end up in E.O.D.

liberty
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Re: WWIII? Or just a little fuckery?

Post by liberty »

I understand from the news that Putin wants a ceasefire. Does anybody buy that? Does he really want a ceasefire? All he's saying is give peace a chance. Everyone now all together, " All we are saying is give peace a chance. All we are saying is give peace a chance. All we are saying is give peace a chance."
I expected to be placed in an air force combat position such as security police, forward air control, pararescue or E.O.D. I would have liked dog handler. I had heard about the dog Nemo and was highly impressed. “SFB” is sad I didn’t end up in E.O.D.

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BoSoxGal
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Re: WWIII? Or just a little fuckery?

Post by BoSoxGal »

He called a ceasefire for the celebration of orthodox Christmas, nothing more. Ukrainians aren’t even trusting it because he’s lied before and rained missiles down on civilian evacuees during alleged ceasefires.

Merry Christmas, Ukraine 🎄
For me, it is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring.
~ Carl Sagan

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Re: WWIII? Or just a little fuckery?

Post by Crackpot »

A ceasefire aids Putin as it gives him time to regroup and raise an army from the vast Russian populace. Any
Break allows him to regroup to Ukraines detriment.
Okay... There's all kinds of things wrong with what you just said.

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