WWIII? Or just a little fuckery?

Right? Left? Centre?
Political news and debate.
Put your views and articles up for debate and destruction!
ex-khobar Andy
Posts: 5419
Joined: Sat Dec 19, 2015 4:16 am
Location: Louisville KY as of July 2018

Re: WWIII? Or just a little fuckery?

Post by ex-khobar Andy »

My understanding is that the design was approved but of a couple of weeks ago the stamp had still not been issued with, as BB says, country and rate designation. But a statement I saw from the Ukraine postal authorities indicated that it had in fact been issued but not yet in sufficient numbers to meet demand.

British stamps are still the only ones which do not have a country indication.

User avatar
BoSoxGal
Posts: 18299
Joined: Tue Apr 06, 2010 10:36 pm
Location: The Heart of Red Sox Nation

Re: WWIII? Or just a little fuckery?

Post by BoSoxGal »

For me, it is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring.
~ Carl Sagan

User avatar
Econoline
Posts: 9555
Joined: Sun Apr 18, 2010 6:25 pm
Location: DeKalb, Illinois...out amidst the corn, soybeans, and Republicans

Re: WWIII? Or just a little fuckery?

Post by Econoline »

Ctrl+Z.jpg
People who are wrong are just as sure they're right as people who are right. The only difference is, they're wrong.
God @The Tweet of God

User avatar
Gob
Posts: 33642
Joined: Tue Apr 06, 2010 8:40 am

Re: WWIII? Or just a little fuckery?

Post by Gob »

Having that!!
“If you trust in yourself, and believe in your dreams, and follow your star. . . you'll still get beaten by people who spent their time working hard and learning things and weren't so lazy.”

User avatar
BoSoxGal
Posts: 18299
Joined: Tue Apr 06, 2010 10:36 pm
Location: The Heart of Red Sox Nation

Re: WWIII? Or just a little fuckery?

Post by BoSoxGal »

Is anyone here willing to play devils advocate and explain how what the Russians are doing in Ukraine isn’t genocide?
For me, it is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring.
~ Carl Sagan

User avatar
datsunaholic
Posts: 1790
Joined: Sun Dec 13, 2015 12:53 am
Location: The Wet Coast

Re: WWIII? Or just a little fuckery?

Post by datsunaholic »

Let's try... um, they are eliminating an anti-Russian threat and bringing the region back to the motherland?
Death is Nature's way of telling you to slow down.

Big RR
Posts: 14050
Joined: Thu Apr 15, 2010 9:47 pm

Re: WWIII? Or just a little fuckery?

Post by Big RR »

I would think most wars could be called genocide; it just depends which side you're on.

User avatar
Crackpot
Posts: 11266
Joined: Sat Apr 10, 2010 2:59 am
Location: Michigan

Re: WWIII? Or just a little fuckery?

Post by Crackpot »

Because they are both generally Rus? (Eastern Slavs)
Okay... There's all kinds of things wrong with what you just said.

User avatar
Sue U
Posts: 8545
Joined: Thu Apr 15, 2010 4:59 pm
Location: Eastern Megalopolis, North America (Midtown)

Re: WWIII? Or just a little fuckery?

Post by Sue U »

The Russians may be committing war crimes in Ukraine, possibly on a massive scale, but It's not genocide. Genocide is intentional action to wipe out a particular national/racial/ethnic group in its entirety. The Russian actions, brutal and barbaric as they are, seem intended to conquer and subdue Ukraine, not to murder all Ukrainians.

Please do not be casual about using the term.
GAH!

User avatar
BoSoxGal
Posts: 18299
Joined: Tue Apr 06, 2010 10:36 pm
Location: The Heart of Red Sox Nation

Re: WWIII? Or just a little fuckery?

Post by BoSoxGal »

Sue U wrote:
Wed Apr 20, 2022 3:02 pm
The Russians may be committing war crimes in Ukraine, possibly on a massive scale, but It's not genocide. Genocide is intentional action to wipe out a particular national/racial/ethnic group in its entirety. The Russian actions, brutal and barbaric as they are, seem intended to conquer and subdue Ukraine, not to murder all Ukrainians.

Please do not be casual about using the term.
I am not being casual about using the term. :roll:

The debate about whether Russia is committing genocide is currently being had by world leaders historians and millions of Ukrainians, in very serious, not at all casual terms.

Putin has publicly stated that there is no such thing as Ukraine and therefore no such things as Ukrainians and his actions clearly indicate a serious intention to eradicate any Ukrainians who disagree and attempt to fight for or remain resident in their nation.

It is important to remember that the Jews are not the only people who have ever been victims of genocide, and since they were, there have been others - so ‘never again’ is really just another hollow exhortation if we let stand the admonition not to diminish the genocide of Jews by acknowledging other genocides.

By the way, the Jewish president - descended from Holocaust survivors - of Ukraine has stated that his Ukrainian people are currently victims of a genocide. Someone needs to tell him not to use the term so casually.


https://www.axios.com/zelensky-ukraine- ... c9fa6.html
For me, it is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring.
~ Carl Sagan

User avatar
Crackpot
Posts: 11266
Joined: Sat Apr 10, 2010 2:59 am
Location: Michigan

Re: WWIII? Or just a little fuckery?

Post by Crackpot »

:roll:
Okay... There's all kinds of things wrong with what you just said.

Big RR
Posts: 14050
Joined: Thu Apr 15, 2010 9:47 pm

Re: WWIII? Or just a little fuckery?

Post by Big RR »

I do think the term has come into a quite casual use in modern times, meaning that one side has killed a lot of people, especially civilians, on the other side. I cannot think of many conflicts where both sides were not accused of "genocide"; it's just a typical charge levied to obtain a particular response for neutral parties. It's not always the way the term has been used (as Sue pointed out), but it's what the term now connotes when used.

And, FWIW, it's only genocide when the other side does it.
Last edited by Big RR on Thu Apr 21, 2022 1:33 am, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
Crackpot
Posts: 11266
Joined: Sat Apr 10, 2010 2:59 am
Location: Michigan

Re: WWIII? Or just a little fuckery?

Post by Crackpot »

The genocide claim usually has some backing as it’s usually different people groups that are fighting.
Okay... There's all kinds of things wrong with what you just said.

Big RR
Posts: 14050
Joined: Thu Apr 15, 2010 9:47 pm

Re: WWIII? Or just a little fuckery?

Post by Big RR »

Sure, but it's even used in civil wars where the groups differ politically, but not in many other ways.

User avatar
Sue U
Posts: 8545
Joined: Thu Apr 15, 2010 4:59 pm
Location: Eastern Megalopolis, North America (Midtown)

Re: WWIII? Or just a little fuckery?

Post by Sue U »

My point was only that people are generally too ready to use a claim of "genocide" when "war crimes" or even "crimes against humanity" fits the bill, and that tends to befog the significance of an actual genocide . Despite Putin's personal views about Ukraine and its history (most of which are demonstrably false), I do not see a plan to exterminate or deport 45 million people. This is fundamentally a war of imperialism, and while it certainly includes horrific crimes, without more it is not genocide.

Further, I do not believe and have never claimed that Jews are the only victims of genocide. The Armenians were the victims of genocide in the Ottoman Empire during World War I, the Tutsi were victims in Rwanda in the early 1990s and the Rohingya in Myanmar are victims today. If you want to go back far enough, there's also the matter of the Amalekite genocide referenced in the Tanakh.
GAH!

User avatar
Joe Guy
Posts: 13927
Joined: Fri Apr 09, 2010 2:40 pm
Location: Redweird City, California

Re: WWIII? Or just a little fuckery?

Post by Joe Guy »

The word Genocide seems to have lost some of its true meaning nowadays. I've heard abortion, police shooting black people and more referred to as "genocide". When I hear a word misused often enough, sometimes I tend to write it off as either an exaggeration or sometimes simply a misunderstanding of the word by the person using it.

So maybe the question should be more specific, as in, "Are the Russians committing a deliberate and systematic destruction of a racial, political, or cultural group?"

(Webster's definition)

User avatar
Gob
Posts: 33642
Joined: Tue Apr 06, 2010 8:40 am

Re: WWIII? Or just a little fuckery?

Post by Gob »

Big RR wrote:
Wed Apr 20, 2022 6:10 pm
I do think the term has come into a quite casual use in modern times, meaning that one side has killed a lot of people, especially civilians, on the other side.
Go on any Cornish nationalist facebook or other site, and you'll see them talking about the "Cornish genocide" being committed by the "English Imperial State".
“If you trust in yourself, and believe in your dreams, and follow your star. . . you'll still get beaten by people who spent their time working hard and learning things and weren't so lazy.”

User avatar
MajGenl.Meade
Posts: 20706
Joined: Sun Apr 25, 2010 8:51 am
Location: Groot Brakrivier
Contact:

Re: WWIII? Or just a little fuckery?

Post by MajGenl.Meade »

Gob wrote:
Thu Apr 21, 2022 8:57 am
Go on any Cornish nationalist facebook or other site, and you'll see them talking about the "Cornish genocide" being committed by the "English Imperial State".
Yeah but that's a service to humanity - no comparison
For Christianity, by identifying truth with faith, must teach-and, properly understood, does teach-that any interference with the truth is immoral. A Christian with faith has nothing to fear from the facts

User avatar
Gob
Posts: 33642
Joined: Tue Apr 06, 2010 8:40 am

Re: WWIII? Or just a little fuckery?

Post by Gob »

:lol:
“If you trust in yourself, and believe in your dreams, and follow your star. . . you'll still get beaten by people who spent their time working hard and learning things and weren't so lazy.”

User avatar
BoSoxGal
Posts: 18299
Joined: Tue Apr 06, 2010 10:36 pm
Location: The Heart of Red Sox Nation

Re: WWIII? Or just a little fuckery?

Post by BoSoxGal »

Mass grave in Mariupol containing as many as 9000 Ukrainian corpses, evacuated by the Russians.


https://www.npr.org/sections/picturesho ... ite-images
For me, it is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring.
~ Carl Sagan

Post Reply