In other news from Hell

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Bicycle Bill
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Re: In other news from Hell

Post by Bicycle Bill »

Now I'm beginning to understand why Republicans are trying to halt abortions.  They need to 'protect the unborn children' and force women to give birth in order to replace the already-born children that they're treating like clay pigeons.
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MajGenl.Meade
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Re: In other news from Hell

Post by MajGenl.Meade »

Jarlaxle wrote:
Wed Mar 29, 2023 3:11 pm
Econoline wrote:
Wed Mar 29, 2023 7:32 am
Just curious. Seriously. From the point of view of a gun enthusiast, is there *ANY* level of gun ownership that would *EVER* be considered "enough"? Or "too much"?

Is there *ANYONE* who should *EVER* be considered *NOT* part of a "well regulated militia"????? :loon
Criminals. Mentally ill.
You have to remember that if umpty-ump kids are shot dead before armed heroes show up to cap the bad guy, all is well. Losing a few kids first - well that's just collateral damage to the worshiper of firearms.
For Christianity, by identifying truth with faith, must teach-and, properly understood, does teach-that any interference with the truth is immoral. A Christian with faith has nothing to fear from the facts

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Scooter
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Re: In other news from Hell

Post by Scooter »

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datsunaholic
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Re: In other news from Hell

Post by datsunaholic »

Jarlaxle wrote:
Wed Mar 29, 2023 3:11 pm
Econoline wrote:
Wed Mar 29, 2023 7:32 am
Just curious. Seriously. From the point of view of a gun enthusiast, is there *ANY* level of gun ownership that would *EVER* be considered "enough"? Or "too much"?

Is there *ANYONE* who should *EVER* be considered *NOT* part of a "well regulated militia"????? :loon
Criminals. Mentally ill.
But you would probably object to having a mental health evaluation be required before purchase. Just like gun nuts who oppose gun registration or mandatory gun safety courses. By the time someone is found to be mentally ill it's usually too late. People are dead.

As for criminals, gun possession is already prohibited for inmates. Once you're out, having served your time... Or is it anyone that's ever been convicted of a crime? Jaywalking? Speeding? Or just felonies?
Death is Nature's way of telling you to slow down.

Jarlaxle
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Re: In other news from Hell

Post by Jarlaxle »

datsunaholic wrote:
Wed Mar 29, 2023 9:48 pm
Jarlaxle wrote:
Wed Mar 29, 2023 3:11 pm
Econoline wrote:
Wed Mar 29, 2023 7:32 am
Just curious. Seriously. From the point of view of a gun enthusiast, is there *ANY* level of gun ownership that would *EVER* be considered "enough"? Or "too much"?

Is there *ANYONE* who should *EVER* be considered *NOT* part of a "well regulated militia"????? :loon
Criminals. Mentally ill.
But you would probably object to having a mental health evaluation be required before purchase. Just like gun nuts who oppose gun registration or mandatory gun safety courses. By the time someone is found to be mentally ill it's usually too late. People are dead.
Of course...in that case, no doctor would EVER sign off on someone owning a gun. The liability is too much, and psychiatry is, of course, anything but certain. Doctors would either simply refuse to do evaluations at all or just reject everyone. (Note: that is directly from a 15-year practicing psychiatrist.)
As for criminals, gun possession is already prohibited for inmates. Once you're out, having served your time... Or is it anyone that's ever been convicted of a crime? Jaywalking? Speeding? Or just felonies?
Felonies.

Big RR
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Re: In other news from Hell

Post by Big RR »

The liability could be easily by a properly drafted statute providing for this, or by objective criteria being written to define what criteria will prevent someone from owning a gun.

And,FWIW, concerns about liability does not prevent physicians and psychologists from classifying criminal defendants as insane (or not) or even recommending involuntary commitment to a mental institution. I think, more likely, there will be some "health professionals" who will sign off on pretty much anything (and certify any person as sane for a fee), much as the online psychologists and social workers who will have one phone call and say someone is in need of a therapy animal (surprising the animal they currently have in violation of their leases). Filling a need is free enterprise, and health professionals are not immune from it.

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BoSoxGal
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Re: In other news from Hell

Post by BoSoxGal »

Setting aside the abysmal state of access to mental health resources in our country, the majority of mass shooters have been law abiding citizens with no criminal history and no substantive diagnoses or history of mental health treatment prior to jumping with both feet into mass murder, usually with a legally obtained firearm, most often an assault weapon intended for the battlefield.

#banassaultrifles
#repeal2A
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Big RR
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Re: In other news from Hell

Post by Big RR »

If I'm not mistaken, in this case the woman was under active treatment for some sort of mental/emotional disorder, and yet she still obtained multiple firearms legally--something that I maintains would likely not be the case (depending why she was under treatment).

As for the firearms being "intended for the battlefield", I will leave that to people who are much more familiar with firearms than I am; I recall the standard battlefield weapon when I was in the army was the M-16, a rifle that could be used to switch from semiautomatic (one shot per trigger pull) to fully automatic , (the entire magazine can be emptied with a trigger pull) any of the so-called assault weapons can do and still be legal. As I have said many times, I think a better case can be made to ban all rifles of a certain type (such as with a magazine that can hold a certain number of rounds--or an internal chamber that can hold the same number of rounds e.g., a 30-30 hunting rifle can hold 6 or more rounds as I recall)), than just seeking to ban a subset of rifles that is not functionally different from the others but just look "scary" or like military weapons. Again, I don't know a lot about these "assault" rifles and concede they may be functionally different, but I don't know if that's the case.

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MajGenl.Meade
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Re: In other news from Hell

Post by MajGenl.Meade »

As an aside, it's a relief that this woman identifies as male. It makes the whole "shoot-em-up" scenario more normal.
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Econoline
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Re: In other news from Hell

Post by Econoline »

Jarlaxle wrote:
Thu Mar 30, 2023 1:09 pm
Jarlaxle wrote:
Wed Mar 29, 2023 3:11 pm
Criminals. Mentally ill.
Felonies.
So I guess that means that even you can admit that more than 8% * (roughly 1 in 12) of the total US population should NOT be allowed to keep and bear arms?

:shrug *SIGH* Well, that's a start...

*(including, coincidentally, 33% of African-American males)
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Econoline
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Re: In other news from Hell

Post by Econoline »

BTW, I notice that no one has even tried to answer my first question:
Econoline wrote:
Wed Mar 29, 2023 7:32 am
Just curious. Seriously. From the point of view of a gun enthusiast, is there *ANY* level of gun ownership that would *EVER* be considered "enough"? Or "too much"?
People who are wrong are just as sure they're right as people who are right. The only difference is, they're wrong.
God @The Tweet of God

Burning Petard
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Re: In other news from Hell

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So I will give it a try. I am a long time member of the NRA and one who just last Monday took delivery of a new rifle I have had on order for more than three years. But first a clarification. By 'level of gun ownership' I will assume you mean individual, that is ownership of a firearm by a particular individual.

I think there would be acceptable limits somewhere less than a 80mm mortar on the trailer hitch of the pickup, or a 120mm anti-aircraft cannon mounted in the bed, of the Toyota, even tho the later seems to be the popular 'technical" vehicle in many parts of the world.

I think it was yesterday or the day before, that I watched a discussion on MSNBC with a legal expert quoting Justice Berger in several places, essentially that the recent federal trend to recognize gun possession as an individual right was a 'myth' perpetrated on the American public and based on a warped legal philosophy sometimes called originalism,.

I disagree. The US Constitution grants ZERO rights to the people of the USA. It describes limits on the actions of THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT. The second amendment was usually analyzed until recent decades, as referring as a whole to controlling militia and nothing about individuals. That was a useful agreement that essentially ignores what the amendment actually says: Militias are necessary, but must be regulated. the way to do it is to provide ZERO limits on the right of PEOPLE to bear arms. This 2nd amendment is the only place in the constitution with the phase "shall not be infringed. That is the only right with that constitutional protection.

That what the amendment says, but there has been a consensus agreement almost from the inception of the republic to pretend it does not. That consensus has been shattered by a general agreement that one should look at the words themselves, not the way this right has been commonly implemented in the past. Rational examination of that amendment reveals actual application is INSANE ! There has been a logical principle underlying pronouncements from the Supremes "that the constitution is not a suicide pact." The current court does not follow that understanding. They have decided the constitution is what it is and if it is a suicide pact then the Supremes will stand aside and watch the death of the republic. Insanity.

And we wonder why Israel wants to revise their court system which currently is a self-perpetuating body with no checks or limits from other divisions of the government.

Snailgate

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BoSoxGal
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Re: In other news from Hell

Post by BoSoxGal »

On a related note, it’s not just the actual school shootings or the active shooter drills - there is also this swatting crap that is terrorizing our kids. The news here had an article earlier this week which reported the over two dozen swattings that happened this week the day after Nashville - then said it was the most swattings in Massachusetts since mid February, when there were 30+. A MONTH AGO! WTF?!

https://www.boston.com/
For me, it is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring.
~ Carl Sagan

Burning Petard
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Re: In other news from Hell

Post by Burning Petard »

There hav been semi-local reports of false 'active shooter' in the school to local police in the immediate past. Is that included in the category of 'swatting''?

I remember back in the late 70's there were false 'i put a bomb on the premises' calls to local police. My place of employment (about 1800 employees, we made medical diagnostic stuff.) was shut down twice because of it. Schools, hospitals, other places had similar experiences. A device that visualized the interior of all incoming packages was installed in the receiving department. 35 years later, nothing has ever been found. It is still in use, with upgrades. A small industry now exists to sell, install, service this kind of equipment.

Snailgate

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BoSoxGal
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Re: In other news from Hell

Post by BoSoxGal »

C3F45786-BB5E-4A8B-A4A9-2DF26503C532.jpeg
For me, it is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring.
~ Carl Sagan

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Econoline
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Re: In other news from Hell

Post by Econoline »

Burning Petard wrote:
Fri Mar 31, 2023 7:09 pm
A small industry now exists to sell, install, service this kind of equipment.

Snailgate
Capitalism in its most pure and simple form.
People who are wrong are just as sure they're right as people who are right. The only difference is, they're wrong.
God @The Tweet of God

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Econoline
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Re: In other news from Hell

Post by Econoline »

Well regulated.jpg
People who are wrong are just as sure they're right as people who are right. The only difference is, they're wrong.
God @The Tweet of God

ex-khobar Andy
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Re: In other news from Hell

Post by ex-khobar Andy »

Apparently S Dakota governor Kristi Norm has an 'almost two year old' granddaughter who owns a shotgun, a rifle and a pony. She didn't say whether the little tyke has ammo too.

S Dakota has or is planning an executive order which would prohibit state agencies from contracting with any business that discriminates against a “firearm-related entity.” I wonder if she knows that NRA, where she was speaking, does not allow weapons in the conference hall when the President (e.g., Trump) is present. This seems to me to be discrimination against a firearm-related entity and she should get out of there as soon as possible.

Burning Petard
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Re: In other news from Hell

Post by Burning Petard »

I would like information from those here with 'esquire' properly on the end of their names, to explain just how, in the usual legal systems of the USofA, just how a two-year old person owns anything? Are they expected to exercise the fundamental right of ownership to sell or give that ownership to another?

snailgate

Big RR
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Re: In other news from Hell

Post by Big RR »

As I recall, a minor (even a very young one) can own property, even real property, but they cannot enter into any contract for sale or transfer without parental (or sometimes court) approval any "sale" not complying with this can be voided., nor can the parents take the property from them. whether the two yer old actually "owned" the pony or firearm would depend on how she received them (and with regard to firearms, whether S dakota law permits a minor to own firearms.

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