January 6 Hearings

[Burning Petard]

I will accept the statements of these Secret Service personnel when they actually say it under oath before this committee, either in deposition or open hearing. Until then I will file it in the same place I put the reports of the human sacrifices by Mrs. Clinton in the Pizza Parlor basement.

Snailgate

[Scooter]

[ex-khobar Andy]

She said that she had been told of the wheel grabbing episode by Robert Engel who was the head of the SS detail.

According to the NYT:

Secret Service officials said Mr. Engel and the driver of Mr. Trump’s SUV are prepared to testify under oath that neither man was assaulted by the president and that he did not reach for the wheel of the vehicle. The officials spoke on condition of anonymity to discuss the potential testimony. The two men will not deny that Mr. Trump wanted to go to the Capitol, the officials said.

They are now saying it did not happen. Are they now saying that they did not make those comments to Ms Hutchinson?

[BoSoxGal]

She said that she had been told of the wheel grabbing episode by Robert Engel who was the head of the SS detail.

According to the NYT:

Secret Service officials said Mr. Engel and the driver of Mr. Trump’s SUV are prepared to testify under oath that neither man was assaulted by the president and that he did not reach for the wheel of the vehicle. The officials spoke on condition of anonymity to discuss the potential testimony. The two men will not deny that Mr. Trump wanted to go to the Capitol, the officials said.

They are now saying it did not happen. Are they now saying that they did not make those comments to Ms Hutchinson?

I just watched her testimony twice. Apparently a third party told her it happened like that, in the presence of the secret service detail who said nothing - they didn’t confirm it or deny it in her presence when the story was told.

Now, they’re apparently prepared to go on record under oath denying it. So why not deny it when the other staffer was telling her in front of them?

They are probably boot lickers waiting for their commissions to the new SS when the Trump Reich rises again.

[Joe Guy]

I wish life could be this simple....

[Big RR]

he is already fully discredited in the eyes of Trump supporters because the two secret service guys she testified about have come forward to say they are willing to testify under oath that he never lost it in the car or tried to grab the wheel

If that's all it takes, then nothing will ever convince them. Face it, the story that he grabbed the wheel is likely exaggerated (try grabbing it from the backseat of your car, let alone a stretch limo--he likely made a move to grab it, but did not touch it), but I have nor doubt she is relating accurately what she was told. And the Trump camp testimony of the secret service agents may well be problematic for the Trump camp, as I doubt they will lie under oath,a nd they can testify that he wanted to go to the capitol and was "upset" that he couldn't go. Unless these guys are willing to perjure themselves for him (and face penalties if it is proven), and I doubt they are, then they will not help him.

Personally, I find myself wishing he went to the capitol, because they we wouldn't be hearing that the result wasn't his intention given his carefully written statement he gave at the rally; with him shooting his mouth off there, everyone (OK, not his hardcore supporters, but every rational person) would have been forced to accept his complicity).

[Burning Petard]

She said that she had been told of the wheel grabbing episode by Robert Engel who was the head of the SS detail.

According to the NYT:
Secret Service officials said Mr. Engel and the driver of Mr. Trump’s SUV are prepared to testify under oath that neither man was assaulted by the president and that he did not reach for the wheel of the vehicle. The officials spoke on condition of anonymity to discuss the potential testimony. The two men will not deny that Mr. Trump wanted to go to the Capitol, the officials said.
They are now saying it did not happen. Are they now saying that they did not make those comments to Ms Hutchinson?

Please note the actual details of this report. Some un-named 'secret-service officials" say other people are prepared. . .

NOT the actual persons involved. Still just spin and distractions.

snailgate.

[BoSoxGal]

What Would Donald Trump Have Done if He’d Actually Gotten to the Capitol?

Grab a spear? Tear up ballots? Or glower and wave?

Dan Kois June 28, 2022 6:30 PM

We now know, thanks to Tuesday’s testimony from brave patriot/belated opportunist Cassidy Hutchinson, that Donald Trump really, really wanted to go to the Capitol on January 6. Indeed, so strongly did he want to go to the Capitol, where his followers were rioting, storming the halls, and attempting to attack various U.S. government officials, that, according to testimony from Hutchinson, Trump tried to grab the wheel of the vehicle he was in and wrapped his hands around the neck of a Secret Service agent driving the car. “I’m the effin’ president, take me to the Capitol now,” Hutchinson recalled being told the president said. (He probably actually said “fucking.”)

But was he intending to wreak havoc, to tear up the Electoral College ballots, or what? The question of what would have happened had Donald Trump successfully taken the wheel of the car, in a way, represents in miniature all the questions the Jan. 6 hearings are trying to answer: Was Donald Trump trying to commit a crime? Even though he didn’t quite succeed in committing the crime, does it still matter that he tried? Does Donald Trump even understand what crimes are, or anything else?

Well, let’s speculate. First of all, it’s certainly been years since Donald Trump has driven a car, so if he somehow ended up behind the wheel of an armored limo or SUV, the results would be both comical and terrifying. He’d likely attempt to reach down to the floorboards to put the car in drive, because that’s where the shifter is on a golf cart. He would absolutely jam the car into third gear, and he would absolutely floor it.

You can’t easily see the Capitol from the Ellipse, so there’s a decent chance Donald Trump would have had no idea which way to go. Presumably, one of his Secret Service agents—probably the one he hadn’t choked—would have told him to drive down Constitution. Likely he would have wiped out several of his own supporters along the way, and also possibly driven through the lobby of the Smithsonian’s National Museum of American History.

But then he gets to the Capitol. According to Hutchison’s earlier recorded testimony, played during today’s hearings, it was not clear what Trump’s intentions would have been, had he made it to that far. “I know that there were discussions about him having another speech outside of the Capitol before going in,” she said. “I know that there was a conversation about him going into the House chamber at one point.” But by the time Trump might have made it to the actual building, things were already getting pretty dire. It’s quite difficult to imagine Donald Trump arriving at the Capitol, grabbing a spear, and clambering through a window. It’s equally difficult to imagine him appealing to the crowd for calm.

No, what Donald Trump wanted was a photo-op. The same president who had the National Guard clear peaceful protestors out so he could take a picture holding a Bible had one clear goal at the Capitol, and that was to take a photo of himself, glowering, standing in front of a big building that was filled with losers but surrounded by patriots. It would have been good TV, he thought. (He wouldn’t have been wrong!)

In a way, it’s a shame the Secret Service agents did their job. Arguments that Donald Trump was never urging on the rioters, that he never wanted anything like this to happen, were always absurd, but they would have been a lot harder to make if he’d gotten his photo-op, waved a clenched fist at the rioters, told them to their faces how much he loved them. But while he was absolutely thrilled that the rioters were ready to do his dirty work for him, there was no way he was going to lead the charge. Donald Trump does not actually want to risk getting burned by the fire. He just lights the match—and makes sure he’s in the photo when things go up in flames.

[Econoline]

[Sue U]

"I'll take "Things to Grab" for 200, Alex." -- Donald Trump, probably.

[BoSoxGal]

[eddieq]

Isn't that from the movie "Innerspace"?

[Scooter]

[Sue U]

[Scooter]

[BoSoxGal]

Just finished watching today’s hearings - it was very compelling and ended with the revelation that Trump appears to have attempted to influence a witnesses testimony and the committee has referred the evidence of this to the DOJ.

If you aren’t interested or don’t want to watch in full, I highly recommend visiting the committee’s YouTube page and watching at least the opening and closing statements by Congressman Raskin - very powerful stuff. I have much respect for Raskin, he seems like that rarest of things - a politician who is a true mensch.

[Big RR]

Oe of the things I honestly wish is that the hearings would devote more televised time to taking live witness testimony (I know they take depositions before) and less to providing sound bites of depositions with commentary. Maybe it's what the people want (or a consequence of people not being abel to pay attention for more than a couple of minutes), but I have already seen claims that the sound bite presented were taken out of context and manipulated by the member presenting it (I doubt that it's true, but it opens the presentation to that charge). Yesterday, I don't even think the two witnesses testified for more than 30 minutes.

That being said, the most interesting thing to come out of the hearing yesterday was Cheney's statement that Trump tried to contact a witness. I doubt anything will come of it as it's hard to prove tampering (sure, he just wanted to shoot the breeze with the person), but I hope the DOJ investigates and publishes its findings. This is pretty serious and shows he is getting concerned.

[Burning Petard]

The online WaPo has a summary headlined "5 things we learned in the Jan.6 committee's stunning hearing " [the hearing on July 21] by Jennifer Rubin
Her conclusion is what scares me. "In an eloquent summation, Cheney (R-Wyo.) reminded the country that “we cannot abandon the truth and remain a free nation.” Her message was clear: Trump’s return to power would be unimaginable."

The message i take away is far worse--I find it all too imaginable.

snailgate

[ex-khobar Andy]

The message i take away is far worse--I find it all too imaginable.

snailgate

This.

[BoSoxGal]

I am posting this piece here because it’s entirely relevant to discussion of the short term future of this country. I read this piece early this morning while preparing to meet my day, and I found it a troubling reminder of what I had experienced pre-Trump in the very red very backward county where I spent my last few years in Montana. The devolution of civility had already begun during the Tea Party years, which formed the foundation for the MAGA movement - all the vitriol and grievance was already stoked in response to the N-word president (their words, not mine) and Trump just tapped into it. Everything described in this article was experienced by various public officials in the county where I was CA, including threats of violence and inability to go to the grocery store or library or local diner without facing confrontations from riled up and uncivil citizens. This is why I was not surprised at all to see the embrace of Trump, and have never once felt even a smidge of regret for leaving that place - no amount of money and even a 100 year old craftsman home with a lovely garden isn’t worth living among this sort of folks. I pity all the decent folks in rural America who are not able to escape the uglies and I honestly think that no matter what way the next elections go, there is going to be violence in our streets. We are already in a civil war here, it’s just a different kind of civil war.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/202 ... s-pandemic