What's the difference between an embellishment and a lie?

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ex-khobar Andy
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What's the difference between an embellishment and a lie?

Post by ex-khobar Andy »

Of course in the context of Mr Santos (R-NY - elect).

We checked resumes of those we hired - often a full check takes weeks or months, but everyone I hired was in no doubt that we would verify and that they would be fired if significant errors were found. Because my degree certificate was foreign it had to be verified through a service which does that kind of thing at some pretty serious cost.

But following this case and particularly the comments on some news reports, it seems that many people are OK with 'embellishments' but not with lies. I'm not sure where the line is drawn.

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Re: What's the difference between an embellishment and a lie?

Post by Burning Petard »

For this new Congress critter from NY, I am beginning to wonder if ANYTHING he said was true, I even wonder about his name. His financial reports have legal consequences and they look pretty shaky.

And by the way, my grandparents also survived the Holocaust. They stayed on a farm in Iowa while it was going on.

snailgate

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Re: What's the difference between an embellishment and a lie?

Post by BoSoxGal »

Revolting but unsurprising that there is not a universal call for his resignation from his party. Beyond all the lies about his resume and his family’s Jew-ish heritage (répugnant), he appears to have been financed in his campaign by a Russian oligarch friend of Putin.

Anyway he’s under criminal investigation now, so hopefully he’ll end up in prison after he casts his useful idiot vote for Kevin McCarthy.
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Re: What's the difference between an embellishment and a lie?

Post by MajGenl.Meade »

Image

I always make this gesture when I'm telling the truth about being Jewish
For Christianity, by identifying truth with faith, must teach-and, properly understood, does teach-that any interference with the truth is immoral. A Christian with faith has nothing to fear from the facts

liberty
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Re: What's the difference between an embellishment and a lie?

Post by liberty »

Should Santos resign? No, there's a principle involved: The Democrats had no problem when Bill Clinton lied under oath. That was acceptable behavior for a president, and no one had a problem when the Democrats broke their promise not to make a campaign issue of it after George H W Bush signed the new tax bill. Remember, " read my lips, no new taxes" That had a harmful effect on this country; there have not been any new taxes since then. The country is getting deeper and deeper into debt because of that lie. It all comes down to this, Santos should not resign; as it stands now, lying is part of the political process. Remember what they said to justify their lies to George HW Bush? If you can't drink their whiskey and screws their wives and lie to their face, you have no business in politics.
I expected to be placed in an air force combat position such as security police, forward air control, pararescue or E.O.D. I would have liked dog handler. I had heard about the dog Nemo and was highly impressed. “SFB” is sad I didn’t end up in E.O.D.

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Re: What's the difference between an embellishment and a lie?

Post by Bicycle Bill »

If I read liberty's answer correctly, he's saying that "it's OK to lie, especially if you're a politician.   It's happened before; it goes with the territory; it's to be expected."

Sorry, bro, but I tend to hold my friends / acquaintances / co-workers / public representatives to a higher standard than that.
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Re: What's the difference between an embellishment and a lie?

Post by liberty »

Bicycle Bill wrote:
Fri Dec 30, 2022 4:31 am
If I read liberty's answer correctly, he's saying that "it's OK to lie, especially if you're a politician.   It's happened before; it goes with the territory; it's to be expected."

Sorry, bro, but I tend to hold my friends / acquaintances / co-workers / public representatives to a higher standard than that.
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-"BB"-
I'm saying lies are part of the political process now, and it was Democrats who set that precedent with Bill Clinton's sham impeachment trial. So, you can't complain now when other politicians lie; you set a precedent. Fortunately, it has yet to apply to the general population. But it wouldn't put it past liberals to do that too. I can't speak about you or any other individual. Still, I can say that the general population of the Democratic Party, excluding myself and a few other unicorns, moderate Democrats, believe in a double standard. It's OK for their side to lie but not the other side. I don't believe in double standards. Everybody should be held to the same standards, and for that reason and to emphasize that point, Santos should not resign.
I expected to be placed in an air force combat position such as security police, forward air control, pararescue or E.O.D. I would have liked dog handler. I had heard about the dog Nemo and was highly impressed. “SFB” is sad I didn’t end up in E.O.D.

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Re: What's the difference between an embellishment and a lie?

Post by MajGenl.Meade »

liberty wrote:
Fri Dec 30, 2022 7:29 pm

I'm saying lies are part of the political process now, and it was Democrats who set that precedent with Bill Clinton's sham impeachment trial
You are more full of effluent than the average honey-sucker

What the hell do you mean "now"? Lies in politics are as old as politics, predating Republicans, Democrats and the USA itself. But in local times, have you forgotten Nixon? Reagan? Bush? (and let's be fair and add Johnson - the second one - and Truman)

And it's not Democrats who support lying shitbags like Trump:
A 2007 Associated Press–Yahoo poll found that 71 percent of Republicans said it was “extremely important” for presidential candidates to be honest, similar to 70 percent of Democrats and 66 percent of independents. Fast-forward to 2018, when a Washington Post poll asked the same question and found that identical shares of Democrats and independents still prioritized honesty in presidential candidates, but the share of Republicans who said honesty was extremely important had fallen to 49 percent, 22 points lower than in the poll a decade earlier.
For Christianity, by identifying truth with faith, must teach-and, properly understood, does teach-that any interference with the truth is immoral. A Christian with faith has nothing to fear from the facts

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Re: What's the difference between an embellishment and a lie?

Post by liberty »

MajGenl.Meade wrote:
Fri Dec 30, 2022 11:21 pm
liberty wrote:
Fri Dec 30, 2022 7:29 pm

I'm saying lies are part of the political process now, and it was Democrats who set that precedent with Bill Clinton's sham impeachment trial
You are more full of effluent than the average honey-sucker

What the hell do you mean "now"? Lies in politics are as old as politics, predating Republicans, Democrats and the USA itself. But in local times, have you forgotten Nixon? Reagan? Bush? (and let's be fair and add Johnson - the second one - and Truman)

And it's not Democrats who support lying shitbags like Trump:
[/quote]

No, Democrats support lying rapist scumbags like Clinton.
I expected to be placed in an air force combat position such as security police, forward air control, pararescue or E.O.D. I would have liked dog handler. I had heard about the dog Nemo and was highly impressed. “SFB” is sad I didn’t end up in E.O.D.

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Re: What's the difference between an embellishment and a lie?

Post by MajGenl.Meade »

I think you are unable to read. The comment about it not being Democrats who support lying shitbags like Trump was in the context of the paragraph you deliberately omitted from what you pretended was a quote of my post.

The majority of Democrats and Independents continue to believe that lying is wrong. Republicans who believe lying is wrong have fallen from 70% to only 49% in just 11 years.

And you still ignore your own stupid assertion that lying originated only with Democrats in the Clinton matter when clearly Nixon was long before that. If you have a point to make, make a sensible one and don't lie about it
For Christianity, by identifying truth with faith, must teach-and, properly understood, does teach-that any interference with the truth is immoral. A Christian with faith has nothing to fear from the facts

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Re: What's the difference between an embellishment and a lie?

Post by Bicycle Bill »

As long as Meade brought up Nixon (I was going to be tactful and avoid referring to that particular Pinocchio), please remember that he RESIGNED rather than face the music... as did his running mate, Spiro Agnew, ten months earlier when it turned out that many of the lies HE told were coming back home to roost.  So there's your precedent for you.
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Re: What's the difference between an embellishment and a lie?

Post by liberty »

MajGenl.Meade wrote:
Sat Dec 31, 2022 12:49 am
I think you are unable to read. The comment about it not being Democrats who support lying shitbags like Trump was in the context of the paragraph you deliberately omitted from what you pretended was a quote of my post.

The majority of Democrats and Independents continue to believe that lying is wrong. Republicans who believe lying is wrong have fallen from 70% to only 49% in just 11 years.

And you still ignore your own stupid assertion that lying originated only with Democrats in the Clinton matter when clearly Nixon was long before that. If you have a point to make, make a sensible one and don't lie about it
You are the liar, or you see only what you want to see because I never said that.

Well, Meade, it is obvious to me that you believe in a double standard, and there's nothing I can do about that. Still, the day may come when that double standard is used against you, Christians in general, and all freethinking people; tow the Democrat party line, or you are in trouble. Remember this when their rights are not safe, neither are yours. And today's Democrat party is the party of the double standard and neo-communism.
I expected to be placed in an air force combat position such as security police, forward air control, pararescue or E.O.D. I would have liked dog handler. I had heard about the dog Nemo and was highly impressed. “SFB” is sad I didn’t end up in E.O.D.

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Re: What's the difference between an embellishment and a lie?

Post by MajGenl.Meade »

liberty wrote:
Fri Dec 30, 2022 7:29 pm
I'm saying lies are part of the political process now, and it was Democrats who set that precedent with Bill Clinton's sham impeachment trial. So, you can't complain now when other politicians lie; you set a precedent.
That's a clear statement that "Democrats" set the precedent of telling lies as part of the political process. Not Nixon (for example); not Reagan; not any politician before 1998, least of all a (gasp) Republican.

Apparently you are as unable to understand what you write as you are unwilling to admit error.
For Christianity, by identifying truth with faith, must teach-and, properly understood, does teach-that any interference with the truth is immoral. A Christian with faith has nothing to fear from the facts

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Re: What's the difference between an embellishment and a lie?

Post by Burning Petard »

BB, I am not willing to agree that VP Agnew resigned rather than face the music. He did plead 'no contest' to a felony tax evasion charge.

IMNSHO, all politicians, even school board members, resist telling the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, to the general public. Move along, there is nothing new here. I am sure the classical Roman history buffs could find examples from the various Ceasars and even before.

But some members of the latest US Congress have lowered the bar for 'acceptable spin' to under the concrete floor of the lowest sub-basement.

snailgate.

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Re: What's the difference between an embellishment and a lie?

Post by Big RR »

BP--if I recall, that no contest plea was part of a deal to avoid impeachment and a trail of the vice president. The story was that his acceptance of bribes (It wasn't just lying) continued into the time that he was VP, but that the plea was entered into by Justice to avoid the country having to see a VP charged and tried. If I recall, he received a small fine and probation. As I have said many times, guys at that level are not prosecuted--they get away relatively unscathed (FWIW, I would have loved the spectacles of both his and Nixon's trials, but even then I knew we wouldn't see it).

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Re: What's the difference between an embellishment and a lie?

Post by ex-khobar Andy »

My favorite Private Eye cover, from November 1968:

https://www.private-eye.co.uk/covers/cover-181

According to Wikipedia he had quite a business career after his resignation, and eventually paid MD taxpayers $250K as an acknowledgement of what he had ripped off from them. This was largely based on his access to American politicians of the R persuasion. I saw him in the lobby of the Hyatt Regency Hotel in Jeddah in 1981-ish.
Attachments
Nixon cover.jpeg

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Re: What's the difference between an embellishment and a lie?

Post by liberty »

MajGenl.Meade wrote:
Mon Jan 02, 2023 7:02 pm
liberty wrote:
Fri Dec 30, 2022 7:29 pm
I'm saying lies are part of the political process now, and it was Democrats who set that precedent with Bill Clinton's sham impeachment trial. So, you can't complain now when other politicians lie; you set a precedent.
That's a clear statement that "Democrats" set the precedent of telling lies as part of the political process. Not Nixon (for example); not Reagan; not any politician before 1998, least of all a (gasp) Republican.

Apparently you are as unable to understand what you write as you are unwilling to admit error.
I never said that Democrats invented lying. I agree to lie is as old as people, and political lying is as old as politicians. What I was talking about was the acceptance of lying by a political party, which you should understand from the example I gave of Bill Clinton. When the Democrats acquitted Clinton, it was the same thing as approving of lying in politics; after all, Bill Clinton was guilty of a crime, perjury.

Perhaps I made it too complex for you, so let me simplify this is what my mother told me when I was a child: "Right is right and wrong is wrong, and it doesn't matter who it is". she was referring to the way blacks were treated in the 1950s, but it applies to all races religions and political persuasions. I hope that's simple enough. So let me repeat, "Right is right, and wrong is wrong, and it doesn't matter who it is."
I expected to be placed in an air force combat position such as security police, forward air control, pararescue or E.O.D. I would have liked dog handler. I had heard about the dog Nemo and was highly impressed. “SFB” is sad I didn’t end up in E.O.D.

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Re: What's the difference between an embellishment and a lie?

Post by MajGenl.Meade »

liberty wrote:
Tue Jan 03, 2023 4:40 pm

I never said that Democrats invented lying.
And I never said you said such a silly thing. You said other silly things but not that. Thank you for your apology. We now return to our normal programming.

But the issue is not necessarily a simple "slip of the tongue" (times 17) on a resume. This looks more naughty:
In the latest twist, authorities in Brazil have confirmed that they plan to revive fraud charges against Mr Santos related to a 2008 stolen chequebook. According to court records, Mr Santos spent about $700 using a false name and stolen cheques in the city of Niterói, near Rio de Janeiro. The case had been suspended because Brazilian authorities were unable to locate him.

In a statement sent to the BBC's US partner CBS, the Brazilian prosecutor charged with the case said that Mr Santos' swearing-in as a Congressman means that "he has a certain address where he can be summoned" and that the case can be continued.

Separately, on 29 December, the New York Times reported that Mr Santos' campaign paid $11,000 to a cleaning company for "apartment rental for staff", in addition to a slew of disbursements pegged at $199.99 - exactly one cent below the threshold in which receipts are required by federal law. The campaign expenditures also include $40,000 for air travel, a figure the newspaper noted "resembles the campaign filings of party leaders in Congress, as opposed to a newly elected congressman who is still introducing himself to local voters."
For Christianity, by identifying truth with faith, must teach-and, properly understood, does teach-that any interference with the truth is immoral. A Christian with faith has nothing to fear from the facts

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Re: What's the difference between an embellishment and a lie?

Post by Econoline »

George Santos cat.jpg
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Re: What's the difference between an embellishment and a lie?

Post by ex-khobar Andy »

And in a hilarious addition the "you could not make this shit up" thread George Santos once again proves that we are all wrong: in fact you can make this shit up. Various sites have identified Santos as a Brazilian drag artist called Kitara Ravache and they even have a picture.

For some reason I seem to have lost the ability to post pictures so you'll have to go to the site. It does look quite like him but it could of course be a Photoshop job. Somehow I doubt it.

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