I was ignored when I warned that the camps are coming for LGBTQ people...

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Scooter
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I was ignored when I warned that the camps are coming for LGBTQ people...

Post by Scooter »

...but Republicans are proving me right, and worse:
CPAC Speaker Calls for Transgenderism [sic] to Be ‘Eradicated’

THE RIGHT’S WAR on queer and trans people took center stage at the Conservative Political Action Conference as Daily Wire host Michael Knowles openly called for the public eradication of transgenderism. During his speech on Saturday, Knowles told the crowd, “For the good of society… transgenderism must be eradicated from public life entirely — the whole preposterous ideology, at every level.”

A number of people on Twitter, including Media Matters’ John Knefel and Harvard Law Cyber Clinic’s Alejandra Caraballo, called his remarks genocidal. Tragically, Knowles’ ideology is right in line with Republican politicians who have enacted or introduced bans on drag performances, restrictions on transgender health care, bills that would ban trans people from using the bathroom corresponding with their gender identity, and laws like Florida’s “Don’t Say Gay” that bars teachers from teaching about sexual orientation or gender identity. The Movement Advancement Project (MAP), a group that tracks LGBTQ legislation, described these efforts as an ongoing “war against LGBTQ people in America and their very right and ability to openly exist.”

In his speech, Knowles used a convoluted line of thinking and false logic while trying to prove his horrifying point that trans people should not exist. “There can be no middle way in dealing with transgenderism. It can be all or nothing,” he said. “If transgenderism is true, if men really can become women, then it’s true for everybody of all ages. If transgenderism is false — as it is — if men really can’t become women — as they cannot — then it’s false for everybody too. And if it’s false, then we should not indulge it, especially when that indulgence requires taking away the rights and customs of many people. It if is false, then for the good of society — and especially for the good of the poor people who have fallen prey to this confusion — then transgenderism must be eradicated from public life entirely — the whole preposterous ideology, at every level.”

This is not Knowles’ first time calling for a ban on trans people appearing in public. He made similar comments last week, again drawing criticism that he was advocating for genocide. In response, Knowles said on his radio show that “there can’t be a genocide” of trans people because, he claimed, “Transgender people is not a real ontological category.”

People like Knowles may feel even more emboldened as top conservatives regularly spout virulently anti-trans rhetoric. In February, former Vice President Mike Pence decried “radical gender ideology” and claimed the left has “increasingly bizarre obsessions with race and sex and gender.” Former President Donald Trump has also turned up his anti-trans rhetoric recently. In a video posted in January, Trump decried “left-wing gender insanity” and promised to end gender affirming care for minors nationwide, likening normal health care to “child sex mutilation” and “child abuse.” It’s all a transparently fascistic effort to drive LGBTQ people back into the closet and eliminate them from public life while simultaneously firing up the conservative base with fear-mongering. Trump is scheduled to speak at CPAC on Saturday evening.
They have now amped up their rhetoric to openly calling for genocide.

What did Maya Angelou say about believing people when they show you who they are...
Last edited by Scooter on Sun Mar 05, 2023 11:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: I was ignored when I warned that the camps are coming for LGBTQ people...

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For anyone wanting to keep track, Republicans have now reached stage 8 of the 10 stages of genocide. Can extermination (stage 9) be far behind?

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Re: I was ignored when I warned that the camps are coming for LGBTQ people...

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Re: I was ignored when I warned that the camps are coming for LGBTQ people...

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You are not overreacting.
For me, it is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring.
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Re: I was ignored when I warned that the camps are coming for LGBTQ people...

Post by MajGenl.Meade »

Concern - yes
Dislike - yes
Resistance - yes
Opposing - yes
Mocking - yes

Those are reasonable reactions

"Extermination" is just hysteria. Very much over reaction
For Christianity, by identifying truth with faith, must teach-and, properly understood, does teach-that any interference with the truth is immoral. A Christian with faith has nothing to fear from the facts

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Re: I was ignored when I warned that the camps are coming for LGBTQ people...

Post by Joe Guy »

MajGenl.Meade wrote:
Mon Mar 06, 2023 6:17 am

Those are reasonable reactions

"Extermination" is just hysteria. Very much over reaction
I agree that extermination is hysteria but eliminating and hatred of them is a real thing for a lot of people.

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Re: I was ignored when I warned that the camps are coming for LGBTQ people...

Post by BoSoxGal »

MajGenl.Meade wrote:
Mon Mar 06, 2023 6:17 am
Concern - yes
Dislike - yes
Resistance - yes
Opposing - yes
Mocking - yes

Those are reasonable reactions

"Extermination" is just hysteria. Very much over reaction
This response from a so-called historian. Doh!
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Re: I was ignored when I warned that the camps are coming for LGBTQ people...

Post by MajGenl.Meade »

BoSoxGal wrote:
Mon Mar 06, 2023 9:56 am
MajGenl.Meade wrote:
Mon Mar 06, 2023 6:17 am
Concern - yes
Dislike - yes
Resistance - yes
Opposing - yes
Mocking - yes

Those are reasonable reactions

"Extermination" is just hysteria. Very much over reaction
This response from a so-called historian. Doh!
I very much doubt that the United States will legalize the mass murder of alphabet people. The history of the country and of the Constitution supports this view. Perhaps there is an argument showing the opposite case to be likely. If so, what is it?

There is little point in using examples from the 19th century because we are not in the 19th century but the 21st. Nor are we in 1920s Russia, 1930s Germany or 1970s Cambodia. Today's objective conditions (legal and social) must be accounted for, and none suggests the acceptance of extermination by this society. The aberrant behavior of a minority (by which I mean right wingnuts) is something to be worried about - hence my endorsement of resistance.

Someone has "so-called" me a historian? I was not aware of that. It also seems rather extreme. I've only written one book of historical (non-fiction) value which is hardly a qualification, although history does greatly interest me.
For Christianity, by identifying truth with faith, must teach-and, properly understood, does teach-that any interference with the truth is immoral. A Christian with faith has nothing to fear from the facts

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Re: I was ignored when I warned that the camps are coming for LGBTQ people...

Post by ex-khobar Andy »

I don't think that anyone, including Scooter, said that 'extermination' was upon us, and I don't think (maybe wishful thinking) that it is inevitable. But let's not forget that Weimar Germany is still regarded as culturally 'live and let live' and Hitler (yes, Godwin's law applies still) was just as much a reaction to that freedom as he was to the Treaty of Versailles.There are parts of this world where gay people get tossed off tall buildings for fun. I'm not suggesting that Trump and De Santis want to go down that road but there are plenty of people who do. Just as I don't think that Trump wanted to hang Mike Pence but there are plenty of people who interpreted Trump's words as validating that thought.

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Re: I was ignored when I warned that the camps are coming for LGBTQ people...

Post by MajGenl.Meade »

So Andy, what was that about Scooter not mentioning extermination?
Scooter wrote:
Sun Mar 05, 2023 11:12 pm
For anyone wanting to keep track, Republicans have now reached stage 8 of the 10 stages of genocide. Can extermination (stage 9) be far behind?
Rather than generalize, (my job), can anyone put forward a rational argument describing the circumstances in which the United States will endorse and adopt an official policy of extermination of the alphabeticals?

Absent that, any claims of pending extermination are "over reaction"
For Christianity, by identifying truth with faith, must teach-and, properly understood, does teach-that any interference with the truth is immoral. A Christian with faith has nothing to fear from the facts

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Re: I was ignored when I warned that the camps are coming for LGBTQ people...

Post by Sue U »

MajGenl.Meade wrote:
Mon Mar 06, 2023 2:13 pm
Rather than generalize, (my job), can anyone put forward a rational argument describing the circumstances in which the United States will endorse and adopt an official policy of extermination of the alphabeticals?

Absent that, any claims of pending extermination are "over reaction"
The laws and policies now being enacted that restrict or deny health care for transgender people are very much an effort to exterminate them. Insisting that being transgender is some sort of "ideology" and that it is "preposterous" is an effort to deny the legitimacy of their existence. Labeling medical, social, educational and parental support for transgender youth as "child abuse" is an effort to demonize and frighten anyone who might provide care and assistance. Forbidding teachers from discussing the existence of people other than cisgender heterosexuals is an effort to stamp out their existence.

You don't need concentration camps and industrialized murder to endorse a policy of extermination. Just make living impossible.
GAH!

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Re: I was ignored when I warned that the camps are coming for LGBTQ people...

Post by Bicycle Bill »

MajGenl.Meade wrote:
Mon Mar 06, 2023 11:59 am
I very much doubt that the United States will legalize the mass murder of alphabet people. The history of the country and of the Constitution supports this view. Perhaps there is an argument showing the opposite case to be likely. If so, what is it?
I agree with you in that extermination camps, like we saw in 1940s Germany, will not come to pass.  What is far more likely are a combination of restrictive laws depriving certain people of rights with regard to places to live or types of employment that would be permissible, and should they become victims of crimes against person or property said crimes get disregarded in much the same way as lynchings in the Old West or Reconstruction South went unprosecuted.
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Re: I was ignored when I warned that the camps are coming for LGBTQ people...

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Re: I was ignored when I warned that the camps are coming for LGBTQ people...

Post by Joe Guy »

If this article is accurate, that meme is incorrect and very misleading.

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Re: I was ignored when I warned that the camps are coming for LGBTQ people...

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How is it incorrect and misleading?
The new law, effective April 1, builds on existing restrictions on “adult-oriented businesses” in Tennessee, expanding the state’s obscenity laws to include performances that feature topless or exotic dancers or “male or female impersonators”
Drag performers in Tennessee beginning next month could find themselves behind bars for performing in certain public spaces or where their shows may be viewed by “a person who is not an adult,” according to the new law.

First-time violators may be charged with a Class A misdemeanor, punishable by a $2,500 fine and up to a year in jail. Any subsequent offenses will be classified as a Class E felony, carrying a maximum six-year prison sentence.
Where is the incorrect and misleading part?
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Re: I was ignored when I warned that the camps are coming for LGBTQ people...

Post by Joe Guy »

Quote from article:
"Senate Bill 3, the drag ban, prohibits “adult cabaret performances” from taking place within 1,000 feet of schools, public parks or places of worship."

The meme doesn't look to me as though it's showing any type of performance. It's not even obvious that it's a man dressed as a woman.
First-time violators may be charged with a Class A misdemeanor, punishable by a $2,500 fine and up to a year in jail. Any subsequent offenses will be classified as a Class E felony, carrying a maximum six-year prison sentence.
Looking at the meme, it doesn't appear to be a cabaret performance and highly unlikely to qualify as a misdemeanor and definitely not a felony. The meme suggests a man dressed as a woman and reading or speaking to a group of people would be guilty of a felony and charged with "grooming and sexualizing minors" if a child or children were present.

The meme's message is a huge exaggeration and mischaracterization of the new law.

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Re: I was ignored when I warned that the camps are coming for LGBTQ people...

Post by Sue U »

Joe Guy wrote:
Tue Mar 07, 2023 3:23 am

The meme's message is a huge exaggeration and mischaracterization of the new law.
It is not. The law was passed based on claims that drag shows "sexualized" minors. The entire business model of Hooters is prurience. The meme highlights the hypocrisy of the legislation and the people pushing it.
GAH!

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Re: I was ignored when I warned that the camps are coming for LGBTQ people...

Post by Scooter »

From the Bill Summary:
This amendment defines "adult cabaret entertainment" as adult-oriented performances that are harmful to minors, as such term is defined under present law; feature go-go dancers, exotic dancers, strippers, male or female impersonators, or similar entertainers; and include a single performance or multiple performances by an entertainer.
Given that drag queen stories hours have been one of THE MAJOR flashpoints of the ongoing manufactured outrage, is it remotely credible that those pushing this sort of legislation did not intend to include them as part of their prohibition? Furthermore, it is clear that they view ANY drag as "adult oriented" and "harmful to minors", given their obsession with shielding children from it. So yes, the meme is 100% accurate because it is supported by the language of the bill.

Nor do I see it as a stretch that the mere act of walking down a public street in clothing that is not seen as corresponding to one's sex assigned at birth could also be seen as performative (because of course all trans people are just acting as if they are of the gender they present), which would of course criminalize trans people merely for existing.

Sorry not sorry, but I'm not interested in entertaining any of your Mickey the Dunce tapdancing when the language of the bill so clearly corresponds to the long openly stated intent of your Christian Talibangelist legislators to ban drag from anywhere that children may be able to see it.
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Re: I was ignored when I warned that the camps are coming for LGBTQ people...

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Sue U wrote:
Tue Mar 07, 2023 4:06 am
It is not. The law was passed based on claims that drag shows "sexualized" minors. The entire business model of Hooters is prurience. The meme highlights the hypocrisy of the legislation and the people pushing it.
Where in the meme does it show anything that the new law covers?

I understand the hypocrisy of the people pushing the legislation. I don't believe the meme was done well and it's not an accurate depiction of the problem. In fact, I'm not sure that anyone could make a "good" meme to criticize the new law.

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Re: I was ignored when I warned that the camps are coming for LGBTQ people...

Post by Joe Guy »

Scooter wrote:
Tue Mar 07, 2023 4:12 am
Given that drag queen stories hours have been one of THE MAJOR flashpoints of the ongoing manufactured outrage, is it remotely credible that those pushing this sort of legislation did not intend to include them as part of their prohibition? Furthermore, it is clear that they view ANY drag as "adult oriented" and "harmful to minors", given their obsession with shielding children from it. So yes, the meme is 100% accurate because it is supported by the language of the bill.
I disagree. Although I see your point, I think you're saying that the law -as hypocritical as it may be - has more legal authority than it actually does.
Scooter wrote:
Tue Mar 07, 2023 4:12 am
Nor do I see it as a stretch that the mere act of walking down a public street in clothing that is not seen as corresponding to one's sex assigned at birth could also be seen as performative (because of course all trans people are just acting as if they are of the gender they present), which would of course criminalize trans people merely for existing.
See my last response.
Scooter wrote:
Tue Mar 07, 2023 4:12 am
Sorry not sorry, but I'm not interested in entertaining any of your Mickey the Dunce tapdancing when the language of the bill so clearly corresponds to the long openly stated intent of your Christian Talibangelist legislators to ban drag from anywhere that children may be able to see it.
The bill is obviously designed to mostly appeal politically to Christians. It just shows how stupid some politicians are and how divisive politics has become here in the U.S. As I wrote before, it's a bad meme. Sometimes it's better just to point to the facts than to attempt to represent them in a distorted manner.

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