Kinda sure that I cannot vote for Biden in '24

[Bicycle Bill]

Big RR "public policy should not be decided on the basis of someone's personal opinions"

You know how the saying goes that "punctuation saves lives", and then shows how the addition of one comma in the phrase "Let's eat Grandma" prevents Grandma from BEING dinner in favor of being a guest at dinner?   Well, spacing does the same.

Public policy should not be decided on the basis of some one's personal opinions.   Note the space.

All policies are decided on the basis of personal opinions.   When enough people in the right places personally opine that "X is good", X becomes the law,

That, my friend, is merely "consensus of the majority" — which, according to my grade school civics classes back in the 1960s, was one of the cardinal tenets upon which this country was originally based.   It's just that in 250 years, more or less, the old principals and ideals have taken a lot of hits from big money, special interests, and certifiable wackadoodles, of which the ultra-right wing MAGA movement is just the latest flavor, and ain't as firm as they used to be.

-"BB"-

[MajGenl.Meade]

the old principals and ideals have taken a lot of hits from big money, special interests, and certifiable wackadoodles,

You old Jacksonian, you!

[Bicycle Bill]

the old principals and ideals have taken a lot of hits from big money, special interests, and certifiable wackadoodles,

You old Jacksonian, you!

Noted a typo ... that should have been 'principles' as in a concept, not 'principal' as in the dude in charge of a school.
Please excuse my error.

-"BB"+

[Big RR]

That, my friend, is merely "consensus of the majority" — which, according to my grade school civics classes back in the 1960s, was one of the cardinal tenets upon which this country was originally based.

True, and another "cardinal tenet"was the protection of the individual from the tyranny of the majority, along with the inalienable rights of individuals.

[BoSoxGal]

And there will always be fundamental disagreements among humans about what their inalienable rights are and should be. Democracy is messy, but it's the best we've got.

Obviously it would be better if we had someone like me as a philosopher queen - though some here might disagree.

[Big RR]

True, but those are the discussions and debates well worth having, and we have a lot of history to help guide us. Personally, I think (or at least like to think) that most of us are in agreement on what the rights are, but differ on the application(s). Sure it's messy, but it's a mess worth celebrating.

[Burning Petard]

Yes me, the prototypical yellow dog democrat, cannot vote for Biden as president. Not because of his age, not the stupidity of his son, not a policy disagreement.

I see a serious character flaw. It is probably trivial if you are not a dog person, or maybe you strongly disagree with my assessment. But the second "family dog' Biden has brought to the white house is now on record for bitting people seriously enough to need medical treatment six times. [Does the presidential protection team from the Secret Service now wear body armor on legs and arms?] The first was removed to a rural neighbor in Delaware after similar behavior.

This is not a failure by some panel of dog trainers. This is a failure on the part of Biden to accept a basic responsibility of having a family dog. The dog MUST be trusted to bite people only when the circumstances meet a previously established condition for biting. Dogs bite seriously when they are insecure, or so secure they know this is when they are supposed to attack and the humans around them will support them and extend the attack.

Biden either can't do this, or he doesn't care enough to do it. He has not earned the right to have a dog in his family. I ain't voting for him.

Will not vote for Trump either, not even to prevent WWII, which Trump says Biden will start. So what do I do?

snailgate.

[Joe Guy]

Will not vote for Trump either, not even to prevent WWII, which Trump says Biden will start. So what do I do?

Request a ballot to vote by mail and then send it to me.

[BoSoxGal]

“What can I add that has not already been said?” Kelly said, when asked if he wanted to weigh in on his former boss in light of recent comments made by other former Trump officials. “A person that thinks those who defend their country in uniform, or are shot down or seriously wounded in combat, or spend years being tortured as POWs are all ‘suckers’ because ‘there is nothing in it for them.’ A person that did not want to be seen in the presence of military amputees because ‘it doesn’t look good for me.’ A person who demonstrated open contempt for a Gold Star family – for all Gold Star families – on TV during the 2016 campaign, and rants that our most precious heroes who gave their lives in America’s defense are ‘losers’ and wouldn’t visit their graves in France.

“A person who is not truthful regarding his position on the protection of unborn life, on women, on minorities, on evangelical Christians, on Jews, on working men and women,” Kelly continued. “A person that has no idea what America stands for and has no idea what America is all about. A person who cavalierly suggests that a selfless warrior who has served his country for 40 years in peacetime and war should lose his life for treason – in expectation that someone will take action. A person who admires autocrats and murderous dictators. A person that has nothing but contempt for our democratic institutions, our Constitution, and the rule of law.

“There is nothing more that can be said,” Kelly concluded. “God help us.”

https://www.cnn.com/2023/10/02/politics ... index.html

God help us, indeed. I think it is a civic duty of every patriotic American to VOTE against Trump, even if that means voting for someone they don't really like all that much.

[Big RR]

I agree; I've held my nose and voted for people I really didn't care for more times than I can count because I saw the alternative as worse. And here, the alternative is far worse; I can understand disenchantment with Biden--I have some of it myself (and I don't blame his lack of success on the republicans; it's his job to find a way to work with them or step aside and find someone who can. Like it or not, that is the democratic provcess and what we are stuck with). But another 4 years of Trump in the white house fills me with dread--I'd even rather have W back (and it pains me to say that).

[Burning Petard]

Going back up a few posts. "Inalienable rights" is a very strange category. For most of us it reminds us of a phrase in the Declaration of Independence which mentions this topic and specifically mentions three: Life [and we have the death penalty} liberty {and one of the fastest growing businesses in American is the building and staffing of prisons] and the pursuit of happiness [and we can't jail pedophiles fast enough]

In my mind the only inalienable right, in most parts of the world, is the right to kill yourself. Locked up in a padded cell in a strait jacket, it is still possible to bite your tongue and bleed to death. Perhaps it is also a universal human right to act very foolishly.

snailgate.

[BoSoxGal]

Two big stories this week:

Everyone freaking out over NYT polls that show Trump ahead of Biden in all of the major battleground states.

Voters go to the polls yesterday and soundly reject the MAGA agenda pretty much wherever it was on the ballot.*

*Mississippi is hopeless as usual


Had the fever broken? Can we breathe yet?

[Sue U]

Two big stories this week:

Everyone freaking out over NYT polls that show Trump ahead of Biden in all of the major battleground states.

Three months is an eternity in American politics; polls a year before an election are less than worthless.

Voters go to the polls yesterday and soundly reject the MAGA agenda pretty much wherever it was on the ballot.*

*Mississippi is hopeless as usual


Had the fever broken? Can we breathe yet?

No. Three months is an eternity etc.

ETA:

But to the extent yesterday's vote was a referendum on the GOP's culture war issues, the results are encouraging.

[MajGenl.Meade]

Life [and we have the death penalty} liberty {and one of the fastest growing businesses in American is the building and staffing of prisons] and the pursuit of happiness [and we can't jail pedophiles fast enough]

The death penalty exists for those who forcibly (and permanently) deny others the right to life by murdering them I would prefer life without parole as a punishment but depriving others of life is certainly grounds for removal of the normal "rights" to life of the perpetrator

Prisons exist to house people who have, one way or the other, deprived others of their rights. (See above) Edit to add: whether or not specific persons in the prisons are innocent or guilty, the purpose of prisons is for the guilty. They are not built to house the innocent.

Pursuing happiness is not tolerated when such pursuit includes committing crimes against other people. If you somehow equate paedophilia with some "right" to be happy by screwing babies and infants, then you have more than a problem. Edit to add: technically this is a mental illness rather than a choice so perhaps you mean paedophiles don't belong in prison but in hospitals. Ne'etheless, I would deny that indulging their illness is a deprivation of a rightful "happiness".

[Burning Petard]

Thank you MajGenl, for confirming what I wrote. The rights of life, liberty and pursuit of happiness are not 'inalienable' and most societies have generally accepted rituals for denying those rights to particular individuals.

The 'Declaration of Independence" remains prominent in the culture of present day America and many other human associations, as a wonderful example of the lasting power of war-time propaganda.

snailgate.

[MajGenl.Meade]

Thank you MajGenl, for confirming what I wrote. The rights of life, liberty and pursuit of happiness are not 'inalienable' and most societies have generally accepted rituals for denying those rights to particular individuals.

The 'Declaration of Independence" remains prominent in the culture of present day America and many other human associations, as a wonderful example of the lasting power of war-time propaganda.

Bentham pointed out that government invariably curtails so-called "unalienable" right and that all rights are granted by the state. However, I would argue that no just government can truly deprive anyone of the right to life, liberty and happiness - though they may postpone the enjoyment of same for a time.

No reader of the Declaration would have thought it mere propaganda at the time because all understood the relationship between the individual and the society (i.e. us), and all understood that it was a statement of intent against arbitrary exactions by an external and unrepresentative (and therefore unjust) ruler. (i.e. them).

The rights of life, liberty and happiness referred to as inalienable, were of course meant to be comparative in terms of who was doing such alienation. I rather think that today's culture of the supremacy of the individual who must in no respect be discomfited by contrary or competing beliefs, ideas or opinions worships the incorrect understanding of "rights" to which your clarification points.

[Burning Petard]

It is now assumed by some that among the rights recognized by the US Constitution, particularly by Amendments nine and ten, is the right to not be offended.

snailgate.

[rubato]

Thomas Paine, Jefferson and some others believed in “ natural rights”; which we have simply because we exist.

Jeremy Bentham, Burke, and, most of the time. JS Mill, ( and Scalia) believed that rights are created by law and do not otherwise exist.

The advantage of the latter is that it is easy to tell what rights. You .have and where they come from.

The advantage of the former is that it preserves rights across political boundaries.

Yrs, rubato

[MajGenl.Meade]

Sure. It's the difference between "entitlement" and "permitted"

[Scooter]

It is now assumed by some that among the rights recognized by the US Constitution, particularly by Amendments nine and ten, is the right to not be offended.

Please provide a quotation from someone who claims that the right to not be offended is among the unenumerated rights of the Constitution, whether by the operation of the 9th and 10th Amendments, or otherwise.