Happy Presidents' Day Who is your favorite?

[Burning Petard]

For me it's William Henry Harrison -- the only president who never had a project rejected. Close second is Millard Fillmore, because nobody remembers him.

Trivia question: What presidents were elected with Johnson as their veep?











Lincoln and Kennedy, easy. But did you remember Martin Van Buren?

snailgate

[BoSoxGal]

My favorite presidents are Lincoln, Roosevelt, LBJ, Obama (because of the ACA), and Biden.

This year I’m especially happy about Presidents’ Day because our 27 year old washing machine croaked yesterday morning and we saved hundreds on a new washer/dryer set from Home Depot that will arrive within a week. Meanwhile I was at the laundromat at 6:45 this morning so I could get my loads done while the place was practically empty.

[Bicycle Bill]

My favorite presidents are Lincoln, Roosevelt, LBJ, Obama (because of the ACA), and Biden.

I presume you're talking about Franklin D. and not Teddy.

And I resent the change to Presidents' Day so that it encompasses and honor ALL presidents ... because there ain't anything even remotely honorable about DJT.

-"BB"-

[Joe Guy]

This kinda fits in with the topic....

In historians' Presidents Day survey, Biden vs. Trump is not a close call


President Biden is rated highly in a survey of historians on presidential greatness — but he's in a tight election race with former President Donald Trump, who is ranked last. Jim Watson and Brendan Smialowski/AFP via Getty Images hide caption

President Biden is in a tight race to keep former President Donald Trump from reclaiming the White House, recent polls show. But that's not how 154 historians and presidential experts see it: They rate Biden in the top third of U.S. presidents, while Trump ranks dead last.

The 2024 edition of the Presidential Greatness Project Expert Survey has Biden in 14th place, just ahead of Woodrow Wilson and Ronald Reagan. Trump comes in 45th, behind fellow impeachee Andrew Johnson and James Buchanan, the perennial cellar-dweller in such ratings due to his pre-Civil War leadership.

"While partisanship and ideology don't tend to make a major difference overall, there are a few distinctions worth noting," said political scientists Brandon Rottinghaus of the University of Houston and Justin S. Vaughn of Coastal Carolina University, who first published their greatness survey in 2015.

Experts responding to the survey who self-identified as conservatives rated Biden No. 30, while liberals put him 13th and moderates ranked him 20th. All three of those same groups ranked Trump, whose presidency was marked by his flouting of historical norms, in the bottom five.

On the survey's 0-100 scale of "overall greatness," a rating of 50 means a president was average, while zero means a president is considered a failure. Only the top three presidents — Abraham Lincoln at No. 1, followed by Franklin D. Roosevelt and then George Washington — scored above 90. The drop-off was sharp from there, with no one else above an 80 rating. Roughly half the presidents were rated below 50.

Trump's overall rating was 10.92, easily the worst showing, while Biden's 62.66 had him tied with John Adams. Some of Biden's appeal could be due to the person he followed in the Oval Office: Trump was seen as "by far the most polarizing of the ranked presidents, selected by 170 respondents," according to a summary of the survey.

The survey emerges as these two contenders for the 2024 presidential race are running against distinctly different headwinds. While historians might prefer Biden, polls show a lack of confidence in his handling of key policy areas, and he is routinely criticized over his age. And Trump is romping his way to another Republican nomination to lead the U.S. despite facing 91 felony criminal counts and lingering disapproval over his one-term presidency.

In a sign of partisan divide, the academics wrote, "Republicans and Conservatives rank George Washington as the greatest president," while Democrats, moderates and independents slotted the nation's founding president in second or third place.

"There are also several presidents where partisan polarization is evident — Reagan, George H.W. Bush, Obama, and Biden — but interestingly not for Bill Clinton," the survey's authors said.

In fact, Clinton fared a bit better among right-leaning respondents, who put him at No. 10, than among liberals and moderates, both of whom had Clinton as the 12th-best president.

Measuring presidential greatness is, of course, both subjective and selective. Historians routinely reanalyze leaders' successes and failures — and in today's polarized political climate, those qualities can look very different, depending on whom you ask. It can also be difficult to extract distinct criteria for presidential greatness, other than helming the United States during critical moments in history — such as helping found the country or keeping the nation together.

For instance, the survey's greatest leader, Lincoln, is praised for preserving the Union and ending slavery. But Washington, who fell from second to third place in the new survey, was a practitioner of that abomination. Even Roosevelt, credited with both enacting New Deal policies that reshaped the country and leading the U.S. through the bulk of a world war, is also criticized for ordering the incarceration of Japanese Americans during World War II.

The survey's goal is to give historians and experts on the presidency a chance to state their opinion of where today's leaders stand in a broader context. To do so, Rottinghaus and Vaughn sent requests to current and recent members of the Presidents and Executive Politics section of the American Political Science Association.

source

[BoSoxGal]

My favorite presidents are Lincoln, Roosevelt, LBJ, Obama (because of the ACA), and Biden.

I presume you're talking about Franklin D. and not Teddy.

And I resent the change to Presidents' Day so that it encompasses and honor ALL presidents ... because there ain't anything even remotely honorable about DJT.

-"BB"-

Yes I much prefer the Roosevelt who steered us through the Great Depression and WWII - there is nothing to fear but fear itself - to the one who slaughtered tens of thousands of animals. Although I will give him credit for preserving a lot of really terrific lands for posterity.

[BoSoxGal]

Cool article I just read in the Guardian:

Joe Biden’s great-great-grandfather was pardoned by Abraham Lincoln

Moses Robinette was convicted in a civil war-era brawl – but Biden’s predecessor gave him a reprieve

Joe Biden’s great-great-grandfather was charged with attempted murder after a civil war-era brawl – but pardoned of any wrongdoing by Abraham Lincoln, a newspaper said on Monday, reviving on the US holiday of Presidents’ Day the often contentious issue of presidential powers to grant pardons.

Citing documents from the US national archives, the historian David J Gerleman wrote in the Washington Post that Biden’s paternal forebear Moses J Robinette was pardoned by Lincoln after Robinette got into a fight with a fellow Union army civilian employee, John J Alexander, in Virginia. Robinette drew a knife and sliced Alexander.

The newspaper reported that Robinette worked as an army veterinary surgeon for the army during the US’s war between the states. He was convicted of attempted murder and sentenced to two years hard labor after failing to convince a court he had acted in self-defense.

Three army officers appealed the conviction to Lincoln, arguing it was too harsh. Biden’s long-ago White House predecessor agreed, and Robinette was pardoned on 1 September 1864, seven months before Lincoln was assassinated.

Gerleman wrote that the 22 pages of court martial transcript he found in the national archives helped to “fill in an unknown piece of Biden family history” – on a Presidents’ Day that fell a week after Lincoln’s 12 February birthday, to boot.

The historian said that Robinette’s trial transcript had been “unobtrusively squeezed among many hundreds of other routine court-martial cases” and revealed “the hidden link between the two men – and between two presidents across the centuries”.

Article II, section 2 of the US constitution authorizes American presidents “to grant reprieves and pardons for offenses against the United States, except in cases of impeachment”.

The power is rooted in the monarch’s prerogative to grant mercy under early English law, which later traveled across the Atlantic Ocean to the American colonies. US presidents typically use the power to pardon at the end of their terms.

Recent presidents have used the powers to differing degrees. George W Bush issued 200 acts of clemency; Barack Obama, 1,927: Donald Trump, 237; and Biden so far 14, excluding thousands pardoned for simple possession of marijuana.

Biden’s marijuana pardons only apply to those who were convicted of use and simple possession of marijuana on federal lands and in the District of Columbia.

Jimmy Carter issued 566 acts of clemency, excluding more than 200,000 for Vietnam war draft evasion.

Lincoln’s pardon to Robinette was of 343 acts of clemency he issued.

According to the Post, the fight between Robinette and Alexander took place on the evening of 21 March 1864, at the army of the Potomac’s winter camp near Beverly Ford, Virginia.

Alexander, a brigade wagon master, had overheard Robinette saying something about him to the female cook. An argument ensued, and Alexander was left bleeding. Robinette’s charges included attempted murder. Though he was not found guilty on that charge, he was convicted on the others and imprisoned on the Dry Tortugas island near Florida.

Three army officers who knew Robinette later petitioned Lincoln to overturn his conviction, writing that the sentence was unduly harsh for “defending himself and cutting with a penknife a teamster much his superior in strength and size, all under the impulse of the excitement of the moment”.

The request went through a West Virginia senator, who described Robinette’s punishment as “a hard sentence on the case as stated”. Then it went to Lincoln’s private secretary, who requested a judicial report and the trial transcripts.

When the letter eventually reached Lincoln, he issued a pardon “for unexecuted part of punishment”. The then-president signed it: “A. Lincoln. Sep. 1. 1864.”

Robinette was released from prison and returned to his family in Maryland to resume farming.

A brief obituary following Robinette’s death in 1903 eulogized him as a “man of education and gentlemanly attainments”.

The obituary made no mention of Robinette’s wartime court-martial or his connection to Lincoln, the Post said.

Robinette died about 12 years before Biden’s late father – his great-grandson – was born.

This article reminds me of my other favorite president, the first one I really remember - Jimmy Carter. I think he tried to do some admirable things while in office, but most definitely he is the best former president in modern American history- the best from early American history was John Quincy Adams.

I heard an update from Carter’s son yesterday that a year into hospice his spirit remains strong. I’ve been expecting news anytime because typically when one of a couple like the Carters passes away, the other does not last very much longer. When Jimmy goes it might be the end of true and total decency in the American presidency.

[Big RR]

FWIW, I don't really have a "favorite"; some have achieved some degree of success, but most also had plenty of negatives. For example, I generally think LBJ was the best president in my lifetime for a lot of his great society programs (as well as showing that he could work with the congress containing dixiecrats but still get some of the best civil rights legislation in history passed). However, the guy escalated the Vietnam war over and over and refused to either try and sell it to the populace (or maybe he just felt he didn't have to answer to the people) or insist on an end strategy, which were unforgivable IMHO. I think most presidents fall in this category (although some have no upside). And if we go back in history, it's hard to fully evaluate their performance as we are judging them by our current standards, not the standards of their time.

[Burning Petard]

RR, you confirm my chioce as favorite. He failed at nothing, he achieved nothing. Very balanced record. I can only hope that the Donald has a similar second term. Perhaps he might even beat Harrisons record for length of term. For me I would hope for his death by dyspepsia 28 days after the election. Then we could have a wonderful constitutional crisis. Would the electors be uninstructed?

[Big RR]

Sadly, Trump would likely still appoint one or two SC justices, not to mention other members of the federal jusiciary. Many might stray from his orthodoxy (really idiocy), but some may not. And if not, I cannot imagine who would be his VP--Tyler may have been bad, but he was a model statesman compared to anyone who would run with Trump.

[Burning Petard]

I m celebrating George's birthday tonite with a piece of store-bought cherry pie.

snailgate

[ex-khobar Andy]

It's interesting seeing this 'best President' discussion in a British context. In the general election of 1945, just two months after VE Day and while the Pacific War was still raging, voters rejected Churchill as PM and voted Atlee (Labour) in with 46% of the vote against Churchill's (Conservative) 37%. The voters concluded (correctly IMO) that while the unreconstructed imperialist Churchill was the right man for the job in time of war, he was not the right man to win the peace. Churchill would get another go as PM in 1951 although it is generally thought that by then (he was 79) it was not a successful stint. Unusually for UK politics, Atlee actually won more votes in 1951 but fewer seats. 13,948,385 against 13,717,851 votes but 295 against 321 seats.

But in any poll, even now long after WW2, Churchill is regarded as best ever UK PM.

[BoSoxGal]

Apparently the Brits are not so age obsessed as Americans are - or was that an issue when Churchill ran for PM at 79 years of age? My recollection is that he was a cigar smoking, heavy drinking chubby, too.

Poor Joe Biden.

[Big RR]

True, but it was a parliamentary election and people voted for their own local representatives. Yes, Churchill led the Conservatives and the election was partly a referendum on him, but I do wonder whether he would have won or lost the popular vote. Indeed, as I understand the British system, there was no guarantee he would be elected as PM by the majority after the election (can anyone confirm this?). Also, there would have been a lot more to be used against him than his age in any such election (but not as much to throw at Biden in this election). Face it, the US voters elected a president who was in the throes of dementia in 1984, and, while age and mental capacity were issues, political issues predominated the debate, and he still won by a large majority in both the popular and electoral votes.

[ex-khobar Andy]

You're right of course - people don't vote directly for a PM but for a Member of Parliament (roughly equivalent to a US Representative) at their local constituency. The leader of the party that wins the most seats is usually 'invited' by the Queen King to form a government. Usually there is not a problem - there is a clear winner - but in Feb 1974 the existing government of Ted Heath (Conservative) won more votes but got fewer seats than Harold Wilson's Labour party. It was very close on both counts. But neither L nor C had a majority in parliament - they needed 318 seats and had 297 (C) and 301 (L). Heath thought that he could do a deal with the Liberals (centre-left) who had won most of the 'other' seats by offering them a major government post such as Home Secretary (I'm going by memory of the rumors at the time - it was all a bit sketchy) but Thorpe (Liberal leader at the time and a few years away from going on trial for attempting to murder his ex-boyfriend - long story, even sketchier) wasn't having it so Heath gave up and Wilson was invited to form a government. Fun days.

[Jarlaxle]

Washington and Coolidge.

[Big RR]

One thing Andy, is there a a recognized (or registered) leader of a party who would be asked, or can the party choose any of their members and submit their name to the monarch? Also, can the monarch refuse a person and ask another to be named (and has it ever happened)?

[ex-khobar Andy]

The head of State appoints the PM. HoS is currently the King but there are republican moves to get rid of the royals (I don't mean in an 'Up against the wall' sense) and replace the King with some sort of elected HoS like (say) Germany where Frank-Walter Steinmeier is President. Chancellor (Head of Government) is Olaf Scholz who replaced the much better known Angela Merkel. But no-one outside Germany has ever heard of Steinmeier (I had to look him up). The leader of the Second party in Parliament is the Leader of His Majesty's Faithful Opposition which is a real job with a salary of its own. So after a General Election the King's job is to appoint a PM who can, in his view, command the confidence of the House of Commons.

In practice that would be the leader of the largest party. But in the example I cited above, Heath was the then PM and although he did not have the most seats, he felt he could cobble together a government. The PM advises the King (the Queen at the time of that election in 1974) so Heath advised her that he could get some Liberals on board and that she should give him a few days to sort it out. After a few days of failure, Heath then told the Queen "No, I can't do it: I advise you to send for Wilson and see if he can make it happen." Which of course she did and Wilson (later Callaghan) was PM until Thatcher won the GE in 1979. Thatcher had supplanted Heath as leader of the Conservative Party (and thus Leader of the Opposition) when he resigned in 1975.

It's worth noting that when a General Election results in a new PM there is none of the 2 1/2 months period we have in the US between the election and the inauguration. As soon as BBC declares the result, the moving vans are there outside 10 Downing 'Street and they have to start packing.

[wesw]

bs gal?

how can you say, with a straight face, that biden is any good at all?

c'mon man.....

i get that you hate trump but....

have you no shame?

you are not that stupid

why would you say such things?

[MajGenl.Meade]

There's an accurate barometer. If wesw opines Biden's no good, he must be one of the great Presidents. He's got my vote (again)

[Jarlaxle]

Of course he does, senility and incompetence are obviously no big deal for you.