Plan B Forum

I’ve been so giddy about this all day today, I decided we needed a thread.

The most crushing conservative defeat in two centuries, I heard on the news. Resident Brits, is this true?

In any case I’m feeling hopeful thanks to my UK cousins. If they could pull out from the Brexit and UKIP insanity to kick the Tories to the curb this hard, maybe America’s right wing fever could break as well.

Here’s an informative piece about Prime Minister Starmer’s cabinet appointments - half of them women!:

https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c0veg88g7jyo

Labour wins in a landslide. Labour wins in a landslide. Labour wins in a landslide.

It sounds so good!

Congratulations to our UK friends!

True and I am thrilled they have got rid of the Tories. If they concentrate on the basics: employment; cost and availability of housing which is ridiculous; fixing the NHS - they will do OK. I am concerned by the rise of the Reform Party which is UKIP-lite and immigration-driven, led by Trump's buddy Nigel Farage and it mirrors the rise of right wing parties in France and Germany and Italy. So if Starmer does not get these basics done, 2029 (next election) will not be pretty.

Yeah, the lopsidedness of the seat count masks the fact that Labour's share of the vote barely moved outside of Scotland, and that the Conservative vote collapsed because a huge chunk of its voters went to Reform UK. The shift in the electorate was decidedly to the right, as it has been in other European countries lately. So yeah, Starmer will have to posts several wins over this term if they want to don't want to see Reform UK replacing the Conservatives as a viable government in waiting.

*sigh*

Thanks for the reality check, guys.

I got another one watching Christiane Amanpour interviewing Marine Le Pen: https://www.cnn.com/2024/07/05/world/vi ... p-politics

I guess we just got lucky to grow up in a world recovering from defeating fascism and getting to grow old in a world slipping back into it again.


That men do not learn very much from the lessons of history is the most important of all the lessons of history. ~ A. Huxley

Scooter wrote: ↑

Sat Jul 06, 2024 2:34 am

Yeah, the lopsidedness of the seat count masks the fact that Labour's share of the vote barely moved outside of Scotland, and that the Conservative vote collapsed because a huge chunk of its voters went to Reform UK. The shift in the electorate was decidedly to the right, as it has been in other European countries lately. So yeah, Starmer will have to posts several wins over this term if they want to don't want to see Reform UK replacing the Conservatives as a viable government in waiting.

Some really interesting things from that graphic. Labour got only 50% more share of the vote than the Conservatives but in a 'first past the post' system they got three times the seats. Reform - right-wing nut jobs IMO - got more votes than the Lib Dems but far fewer seats. They had about the same number of candidates overall: they ran in almost every seat, but LDs have some good history and some excellent candidates who have been doing it for a while so they have reputations. The parties for regional independence - Scottish Nationalist and Plaid Cymru (Welsh) - did poorly which I am glad about because I think the last thing the country needs at the moment is a Yugoslavia-style breakup.

I think we need a no-drama Starmer for now. A serendipitous rhyme there - let's hope it's an omen.

ex-khobar Andy wrote: ↑

Sun Jul 07, 2024 1:11 am

The parties for regional independence - Scottish Nationalist and Plaid Cymru (Welsh) - did poorly which I am glad about because I think the last thing the country needs at the moment is a Yugoslavia-style breakup.

Maybe right now is not the time, but I have to say way up there on my wish list for this lifetime is to see Ireland reunited and Scotland and Wales independent.

BoSoxGal wrote: ↑

Sun Jul 07, 2024 1:29 am

I have to say way up there on my wish list for this lifetime is to see Ireland reunited and Scotland and Wales independent.

And I've always thought that it was silly to have West, North and South states - so, one Carolina, one Dakota, one Virginia. And independence for Wisconsin and Massachusetts! Back to the 1800s I say!

Agree about Ireland though.

Ireland yes but with provisos to protect the largely Protestant population of Ulster - Northern Ireland - and because Ireland is already a strong independent nation. Scotland and Wales no: being Scots myself by birth and having lived there and having also spent much of my grad school time in Wales, I think they overall benefit from the Union. Scotland, it's true, voted against Brexit (as did N Ireland) and I wish the rest of the country had had that wisdom. The Scottish National[ist] Party, for whom independence is a central tenet, had only 30% of the vote. Plaid Cymru, the Welsh (Nationalist) Party, did even worse and got about 15% of the Welsh vote. So independence for these regions of the Union does not seem to be, at least in 2024, a big issue. Sinn Féin, the party representing those who wish to see a reunited Ireland, won 27% of the Ulster vote - hardly a majority but the largest single party. Typically they do not take up their seats in Westminister as a form of protest against the UK government.

MajGenl.Meade wrote: ↑

Sun Jul 07, 2024 2:55 am

BoSoxGal wrote: ↑

Sun Jul 07, 2024 1:29 am

I have to say way up there on my wish list for this lifetime is to see Ireland reunited and Scotland and Wales independent.

And I've always thought that it was silly to have West, North and South states - so, one Carolina, one Dakota, one Virginia. And independence for Wisconsin and Massachusetts! Back to the 1800s I say!

Agree about Ireland though.

The fail in your analogy is that none of the US states were invaded and forced into becoming properties of a tyrant who slaughtered and oppressed the people - apart from the indigenous peoples so yes that happened, but it's still a lame analogy.

I want to see all the Celts be free. Free Cornwall, too!

Ah BSG, if only history were that simple. It didn't all begin in 1296 ya know.

BoSoxGal wrote: ↑

Sun Jul 07, 2024 1:29 am

I have to say way up there on my wish list for this lifetime is to see Ireland reunited

According to the Star Trek: The Next Generation episode "The High Ground" (first aired 29 January 1990) it is set to happen this year.