What is an American?

[BoSoxGal]

[Bicycle Bill]

If they haven't done so already, the Southern Poverty Law Center should immediately list MAGA as a hate group, just as they've done for the Ku Klux Klan, rhe Westboro Baptist Church, and the Aryan Nation (among numerous others).   Full stop.

-"BB"-

[MajGenl.Meade]

Well after all the anti-immigration rhetoric, we get this:

15:46 My ancestors arrived
15:50 from Germany in the 1840s during the
15:52 first real wave of new European settlers
15:55 since Missouri became a state in 1821

As to the rest, I'll take things that don't happen for $1,000 please Alex.

I was in Seattle a week or two back visiting an art museum. Lots of 19th century paintings of "the west". The accompanying curation notes were written by a black man (hey, he wrote that muchly), a Marxist or close to, and he never let a painting go by without explaining that the artists were in some way not doing art but propaganda and dissing the natives. He described a destitute fellow (looked like a native to me) sitting in front of a hide-covered shanty as "well-to-do" and noted that the artist had ignored noble First Nation figures who may have been nearby, as if the artist purposed to eradicate a people. Mostly it just pissed me off.

So this guy Schmitt (rhymes with . . .) takes that kind of thing and turns it into "we are being forced to believe this" rather than "what an asshole" and moving on with his life.

But "they" are tearing down our monuments - could Mt Rushmore be next? No! Because another German immigrant in 2016 went out there and vowed to stop those un-American commentators from assaulting etc etc etc. His identification of 20th century Confederate lost cause propaganda and hagiography as "our" American monuments is nothing short of perverse treasonous treacle. Pisses me off more than the Seattle curator's notes.

[ex-khobar Andy]

I really dislike long speeches which are read - you can always tell. I want to say - if you've taken the trouble to write it out, give it here and instead of listening to you for 30 minutes I'll read it to myself in 10.

[liberty]

I disagree with him. The Founders had no such thoughts—their primary motivation was to ensure they wouldn't hang for treason. According to Sue and Mead, they were traitors and deserved to hang, but they were more interested in avoiding that fate. They also didn’t want their families to be disenfranchised, stripped of wealth, and thrown out into the streets to starve. So, mostly, the country was formed out of self-preservation—which is not a bad reason for founding a nation. I think we should still look out for our own interests. That’s not to say we shouldn’t have principles, but those principles shouldn’t conflict with our survival, well-being, and the future of our children.

When the Founders made provisions for immigration, it wasn’t for the sake of the immigrants—it was for the sake of the nation. We needed population growth to protect ourselves, especially from the British if they ever decided to retake the country. I believe a couple of Founders even mentioned this in their writings. Fast forward to today, and we have a refugee policy that seems to disregard the well-being of this country. It’s run as a refuge for others and is vastly abused. We simply cannot provide room for everyone in the world. The country is already full, and parts of the West are on the verge of running out of water. We just don’t have the space. No country has unlimited resources.

Surveys estimate that at least 200 million people around the world would move to this country today if they could. We’re reaching a point where we may no longer be a great nation. Some might argue we’re not a great nation now. We’re like an aristocratic family that lost its wealth but refuses to sell the family silver—living on credit and running up a bigger and bigger debt. Wake up, people, and see the calamity that lies just beyond the horizon.

[Big RR]

Sure, and rather than use that credit/money to help people, we just pour it into more immigration police and funding of punitive prisons, sorry, detention centers. And, FWIW, I don't think anyone is saying that we can or should accept all people who want to come to the US, but refugees (a very small part of US immigrants) are a worldwide problem and it is incumbent on us to help ease the burden (especially since our policies have contributed significantly to the refugee crises. But keep railing on how we have to keep "them" out so we can "make American great again".

[BoSoxGal]

"They" have been here longer that most of our ancestors - my maternal ancestors came on the Mayflower in 1620, and there were already African slaves here in 1619.

By the time my racist German-American father's ancestors arrived to Ellis Island in the last decade of the 1800s, there had been several generations of Blacks born here.

These people are pale ugly idiot sub-humans.

[Big RR]

Some day some of us will cease to be "us" (read "whites and people who speak English as a primary (preferably only) language) and become "them" (read "nonwhites and people who don't speak English as a primary (preferably only) language; I think that's what Liberty is most afraid of.

[MajGenl.Meade]

According to King George III, Sue and Meade, they were traitors and deserved to hang

Fixed that for you Not sure about Sue though . . .

[Sue U]

According to King George III, Sue and Meade, they were traitors and deserved to hang

Fixed that for you Not sure about Sue though . . .

Oh definitely traitors to the Crown, but that's rather the point innit?

[Big RR]

Depends how you look at it; I'm sure George believed they were traitors t their king, but they (at least the signers of the Declaration of Independence, believed the crown was a traitor to them00and made their point over and over again in the document.

[liberty]

"They" have been here longer that most of our ancestors - my maternal ancestors came on the Mayflower in 1620, and there were already African slaves here in 1619.

By the time my racist German-American father's ancestors arrived to Ellis Island in the last decade of the 1800s, there had been several generations of Blacks born here.

These people are pale ugly idiot sub-humans.

Well, BSG, I think you're in the minority. Most people in the Western world consider classical Germanic features, such as blonde hair, blue eyes, high foreheads, and long, thin noses, to be beautiful. However, I admit that beauty is entirely subjective and personal, and it does not extend across all ethnicities, races, and cultures.

Oh, and by the way, you're racist for calling Germans subhumans.

[Burning Petard]

Scratching my head again. What is a racist? Germans are a race?

snailgate

[liberty]

Scratching my head again. What is a racist? Germans are a race?

snailgate

Well then, have it your way if you want to be so technical. She's a bigot.

[MajGenl.Meade]

lib, I think you have the wrong end of the stick; not your fault for a change. It's not glaringly obvious but . . .

I believe BSG referred to her "German American father" as a racist. She has before written that he was such. I am certain she does not think that all German Americans are racist.

I believe that "These people are pale ugly idiot sub-humans" referred neither to Germans nor to fathers (as such) but to the people calling themselves National Conservatives and particularly to Mr. Eric Schmitt who made the rather appalling "white is right and might is white right" speech.

And please don't pretend you don't understand that was his main theme. Not even you could avoid his message.

[liberty]

lib, I think you have the wrong end of the stick; not your fault for a change. It's not glaringly obvious but . . .

I believe BSG referred to her "German American father" as a racist. She has before written that he was such. I am certain she does not think that all German Americans are racist.

I believe that "These people are pale ugly idiot sub-humans" referred neither to Germans nor to fathers (as such) but to the people calling themselves National Conservatives and particularly to Mr. Eric Schmitt who made the rather appalling "white is right and might is white right" speech.

And please don't pretend you don't understand that was his main theme. Not even you could avoid his message.

If she says that, I believe her. I have never known her to lie, and I suspect she is a person of integrity and honor, even though she does, at times, lose her objectivity and become quite emotional. I tried very hard to make myself understood, so I read what she wrote as I would read what I wrote, and I came to the conclusion I did.