Plan B Forum

In case you haven't seen the video, go forward to 1:45 on the video below to see the shooting....





Here is part of Trump's statement:

[T]he woman driving the car was very disorderly, obstructing and resisting, who then violently, willfully, and viciously ran over the ICE Officer, who seems to have shot her in self defense. Based on the attached clip, it is hard to believe he is alive, but is now recovering in the hospital.

And then there's cowgirl Noem....





Nice job of blatantly obvious lying and fanning the flames, Donald & Kristi.

The only comfort I can find in trying to grapple with this latest horrific murder of an innocent by law enforcement is knowing that juries in Minneapolis have little difficulty convicting law enforcement murderers so they can rot in prison for their crimes.

By the way, she was a 37 year old mother of a 6 year old child, and was widowed just two years ago - so this ‘incident’ orphaned a child. She was an ICE observer, not a terrorist of any kind.

Many of these ICE goons are getting a few weeks training at most before being sent to our communities with guns and orders to wreak havoc.

I wonder what video Donald watched....

Someone help me with the law here. If Minnesota wants to bring some kind of criminal charge here (murder, manslaughter, whatever) can they? The shooter is a federal employee and, at least in some eyes, acting as part of his duties. My guess is that ICE will get him out of the state - probably already has - would he have to be extradited? Can ICE just refuse to give him up? If convicted, could Trump pardon him?

ex-khobar Andy wrote: ↑

Thu Jan 08, 2026 5:58 am

Someone help me with the law here. If Minnesota wants to bring some kind of criminal charge here (murder, manslaughter, whatever) can they? The shooter is a federal employee and, at least in some eyes, acting as part of his duties. My guess is that ICE will get him out of the state - probably already has - would he have to be extradited? Can ICE just refuse to give him up? If convicted, could Trump pardon him?

Minnesota can file whatever charges they deem supported by the weight of the evidence collected for offenses occurred within its jurisdiction.

But because the perpetrator is a federal agent, the US Attorney for Minnesota can invoke the supremacy clause and remove the proceedings to the federal court. The US Attorney will then have the power to dismiss the charges, or to put on a half assed prosecution - and in any case, a federal conviction can be pardoned by the sitting president of the USA. The president can also pardon before any charges are brought.

Thanks BSG. So in essence, whatever MN does, the US Attorney can make it a federal crime and then drop the case or, as you say, mount a half assed prosecution, and MN can do nothing about it.

Madison, Hamilton et al must be turning in their graves.

ex-khobar Andy wrote: ↑

Thu Jan 08, 2026 1:57 pm

Thanks BSG. So in essence, whatever MN does, the US Attorney can make it a federal crime and then drop the case or, as you say, mount a half assed prosecution, and MN can do nothing about it.

Madison, Hamilton et al must be turning in their graves.

States and the federal government have dual sovereignty, so murders that invoke federal jurisdiction can usually be prosecuted in both state and federal court - an example would be some of the mass shootings we have seen where defendants have been prosecuted at both the state and federal level on the same acts. It’s the federal agent issue that makes this different.

I admit that this area of the law is not within my expertise, so I am anxious to hear analysis from any federal practitioners in the forthcoming days.

But it has occurred to me that since there is no statute of limitations for murder, if Minnesota waits until after January 21, 2029 to file charges against this agent, that might preserve the rights of the people of Minnesota to pursue justice for this unlawful act.

However, I don’t know if with the supremacy clause being at issue a preemptive presidential pardon would protect against that.

As I understand it the US Attorney has discretion about invoking the supremacy clause, it’s not an automatic process - obviously this corrupt DOJ leadership would presumably do so, but a future DOJ leadership might not. Some US Attorneys might prefer to allow the state to seek justice, because that could lead to greater public confidence in the legitimacy of the process and the accountability of law enforcement.

Whilst I know that Sue and RR aren’t criminal practitioners, I wonder what their thoughts are on this issue.

BoSoxGal wrote: ↑

Thu Jan 08, 2026 2:08 pm

Whilst I know that Sue and RR aren’t criminal practitioners, I wonder what their thoughts are on this issue.

At the moment, my thoughts are guillotines on Lafayette Square.

Even if the US Attorney doesn't remove the prosecution to federal court under the supremacy clause, the defendant could still do so himself under the Federal Officers statute, 28 USC 1442. (I had a lot of experience with federal officer removal in the civil context, but it also applies in criminal cases.) In that case, I'm not sure whether the USA would be obligated to take over the case or whether the state could continue the prosecution in federal court; the statute doesn't say, and going any further than this would be well outside my wheelhouse.

I tend to agree with Sue on this, But I am unsure if the state could make an argument that the federal officer was not acting within his authority in the shooting and thus subject to state prosecution (as I believe their immunity requires this. I am pretty sure there should be cases on this, but II am not aware of them.

As for the state prosecution in federal courts if the feds refuse to prosecute, I don't know, but I'd love to see it.

Also, I do not know if the extent of the president's pardon power extends to state offenses prosecuted in federal court; I would like to think the president lacks this power, but in this age of imperial presidencies, who knows?

The federal government has just barred Minnesota law enforcement agencies from cooperative investigation of this incident. It will be only Kash Patel’s FBI who have access to the evidence and the witnesses and the shooter.

So they’re giving this murderer a pass, full stop.

The federal government has just barred Minnesota law enforcement agencies from cooperative investigation of this incident

Does this mean they are barred from investigating altogether (I would be surprised to see the federal government has the authority to order that) or only that the FBI will not cooperate or share information? I hope the Minnesota police do their own investigation and make the results public.

BoSoxGal wrote: ↑

Thu Jan 08, 2026 6:49 pm

The federal government has just barred Minnesota law enforcement agencies from cooperative investigation of this incident. It will be only Kash Patel’s FBI who have access to the evidence and the witnesses and the shooter.

So they’re giving this murderer a pass, full stop.

Oh that won't be inflammatory at all.

Can't wait to see who's handling the civil suit.

Big RR wrote: ↑

Thu Jan 08, 2026 7:01 pm

The federal government has just barred Minnesota law enforcement agencies from cooperative investigation of this incident

Does this mean they are barred from investigating altogether (I would be surprised to see the federal government has the authority to order that) or only that the FBI will not cooperate or share information? I hope the Minnesota police do their own investigation and make the results public.

They could try, but as the head of public safety in Minnesota replied to a reporter who asked the same question- they can’t get to the truth or represent it as a complete investigation when FBI won’t let them have any access to the physical evidence already collected nor to some of the key witnesses which would include all the federal agents on scene of the incident.

And to add insult to injury the VP just spoke in a press conference declaring that the ICE officer has absolute immunity for his conduct - of course there is no basis in law for that declaration, but it won’t matter to the MAGA mob nor to many in the country who don’t understand how the law works and are just being confused and inflamed by these developments.

but it won’t matter to the MAGA mob nor to many in the country who don’t understand how the law works and are just being confused and inflamed by these developments.

True, but it might to many others.

BoSoxGal wrote: ↑

Thu Jan 08, 2026 8:08 pm

.......And to add insult to injury the VP just spoke in a press conference declaring that the ICE officer has absolute immunity for his conduct.....

Isn't that the same as telling ICE officers it's okay to shoot anyone they feel like shooting?

Joe Guy wrote: ↑

Thu Jan 08, 2026 8:42 pm

BoSoxGal wrote: ↑

Thu Jan 08, 2026 8:08 pm

.......And to add insult to injury the VP just spoke in a press conference declaring that the ICE officer has absolute immunity for his conduct.....

Isn't that the same as telling ICE officers it's okay to shoot anyone they feel like shooting?

Yes. Expect more murders of innocent observers and protesters to be forthcoming.

The perp: https://www.startribune.com/ice-agent-w ... /601560214

Was dragged by a vehicle in attempting to apprehend a suspect last year, got some stitches, decides it’s a good idea to put himself in front of a running vehicle contrary to his agency’s policies and gets scaredy cat so murders the driver.