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US healthcare. Is this the reality?
Posted: Wed Apr 28, 2010 10:37 pm
by Gob
LOS ANGELES: They began arriving before dawn on a cold, misty morning, people of all ages lining up by the hundreds, some in wheelchairs, others hobbling on crutches, many of them missing teeth, all of them seeking the same thing: free medical care.
It was a scene that could have been playing out in a Third World country or perhaps some place like post-hurricane New Orleans. But it was unfolding in Los Angeles on Tuesday,
and the hundreds who showed up were mainly working people without health insurance.
Kenny Gillett, 47, a welder, had not seen a doctor for two years, since losing his job and insurance when his employer went broke.
Adriana Valenzuela, a self-employed and uninsured beautician, brought an eight-year-old son with a mouthful of cavities. Frank Carodine, 57, in a wheelchair, said he had lost parts of both legs to diabetes, which was now ravaging his right eye. He needed glasses. ''I've got coverage for my diabetes, I go to a clinic, but it doesn't cover eye exams,'' he said.
Outside in the cold, several hundred people, some balancing toddlers on their hips, waited for their turn to enter the Los Angeles Sports Arena. Inside were hundreds of volunteer doctors, dentists, acupuncturists, chiropractors and other professionals, all brought together by a Tennessee non-profit group, Remote Area Medical.
On this first day of the seven-day clinic, Maria Shriver, the wife of the Governor, Arnold Schwarzenegger, visited and said she was humbled by the scope of the volunteer effort.
''What you're seeing is a lot of Middle America here,'' said RAM's flamboyant founder, Stan Brock. ''Healthcare in this country is a privilege of the well-to-do and the well-insured.'' At last year's clinic 6000 were treated. More were expected this time.
Jesse Serna, 51, a disabled warehouse worker, was waiting to get an aching tooth fixed.
Referring to national healthcare reform, he said: '
'We need it badly. We send people overseas when there's a disaster. This is a disaster right here.'
http://www.smh.com.au/world/americas-ga ... -tses.html
'
Re: US healthcare. Is this the reality?
Posted: Wed Apr 28, 2010 11:58 pm
by Sean
That is truly insane. Are things really that bad over there?
Re: US healthcare. Is this the reality?
Posted: Thu Apr 29, 2010 2:49 am
by @meric@nwom@n
Apparently they are in LA.
Re: US healthcare. Is this the reality?
Posted: Fri Apr 30, 2010 12:30 am
by Long Run
@meric@nwom@n wrote:Apparently they are in LA.
Because if it is in the news it must be so because the media never exaggerates to make a story more salable.
Re: US healthcare. Is this the reality?
Posted: Fri Apr 30, 2010 1:11 am
by Gob
Do you have any contrary evidence LR?
Re: US healthcare. Is this the reality?
Posted: Fri Apr 30, 2010 7:49 am
by Gilead
Looks to be very exaggerated. A few years ago I had no health insurance. I was able to get treated for a broken arm in an area hospital. I also went to a clinic at a later time, and got right in with no problem. They sent me bills regularly, that I later paid once I'd gotten employment.
My niece regularly visits the hospital for every little illness. She doesn't have insurance, and is never turned away.
This looks like a one off deal where they are offering FREE healthcare, and a bunch of people showed up who don't like paying for stuff. Not real suprising.
Re: US healthcare. Is this the reality?
Posted: Fri Apr 30, 2010 12:44 pm
by Big RR
I can tell you that I served on the board of a noprofit clinic that served the uninsured (without regard to immigration status), and can attest we had many people coming in for problems which would not warrant emergency care, but still needed diagnosis and treatment. While I didn't work directly in the clinic, i was informed the (volunteer) doctors there did diagnose and treat a number of conditions before they became bigger, and also helped to treat chronic conditions like diabetes (we also worked hard to get the drug companies to donate pharmaceuticals (even $100 a month is hard to come up with if you are making minimum wage) and to get specialists to agree to treat serious cases for little or no fee). This is not the sort of care you would (or even could) get in an average emergency room, and many people came because they had nowhere else to go. We were entirely funded by public charitable grants (we accepted no government funding (not that much was offered) because of the red tape and restrictions it entailed) and the patients themselves (we had a pay whatever you can policy). This is the state of healthcare for the working poor without insurance in the US, including undocumented (illegal, take your pick of the word) aliens. Public health policy alone would seem to dictate treating these diseases, but that sems to have been ignored.
By the way, re free care and people not wanting to pay, one thing I found is that most of the people who came were proud and wanted to pay something. AMny threw $20 into the kitty for a visit (and at minimum wage that's nearly 3 hours pay) and did it happily. They didn't want what they saw as charity or something for nothing, they just couldn't afford to pay the full bill which would come because they were uninsured. And who could? My older daughter recently had a laparoscopic appendectomy--she spent one night in the hospital after the operation, and another tow later on because of complications (really just for observation because they were not serious). The cost including the hospital and insirance fees are, thus far, nearly $50,000 (the procedure and one night stay alone were around $32,000). Of course my insurer, blue cross, pays a negotiated rate which is less than half that, but the uninsured person of means would have to pay the full cost.
Re: US healthcare. Is this the reality?
Posted: Fri Apr 30, 2010 1:24 pm
by Sue U
Long Run wrote:
Because if it is in the news it must be so because the media never exaggerates to make a story more salable.
Gilead wrote:Looks to be very exaggerated.
What, exactly, is exaggerated in this story? Do you think there weren't hundreds of people lined up for care? Do you think the RAM clinic didn't treat 6,000 people in LA last year? Do you think uninsured people don't put off regular medical care because they can't afford it, waiting until a problem becomes serious enough to require more emergent treatment? Do you think the working poor really have health coverage that they just don't feel like using so they can line up before dawn to suck up volunteer medical services provided en masse in an arena?
Re: US healthcare. Is this the reality?
Posted: Fri Apr 30, 2010 4:15 pm
by BoSoxGal
The problem is not at all exaggerated.
As BigRR pointed out, the insured get much better rates for care than the uninsured, so many uninsured/underinsured have to put off care that they simply can't afford - or, they go get the care and end up with ruined credit if they can't pay the bill in full because they are busy struggling to meet basic expenses.
I don't believe that most folks just don't want to pay - most folks can't afford to pay the outrageous costs of medical care in this country.
I recently moved and had to find a new dentist, doctor, etc. Since I live in a rural area, choices are limited as to providers who participate in my plan. When I was looking for a dentist, I found the difference between direct bill cost for routine dental care v. what the BCBSMT provider would be allowed were very significant.
I have put off medical care I needed simply because my patient responsibility cost on certain care is way out of my budget, and I have insurance. If I didn't have insurance, the care would be at an astronomically higher rate, and I'd be expected to cover it all out of pocket.
How anyone thinks this system is sustainable is beyond me.
Re: US healthcare. Is this the reality?
Posted: Fri Apr 30, 2010 4:36 pm
by dales
Wondering how illegal aliens factor into this story.
Re: US healthcare. Is this the reality?
Posted: Fri Apr 30, 2010 5:46 pm
by Big RR
dales--I'm sure there are some, although there are a lot of people of all races without insurance. and illegal or not, prudent public health policy would dictate that a health system should treat problems early to avoid complications and, esepcially, to prevent the spead of communicable diseases.
I don't believe that most folks just don't want to pay - most folks can't afford to pay the outrageous costs of medical care in this country.
that's been my (admittedly annecdotal) experience, and i think it's pretty widespread. Most peple don't just choose to walk around in pain or being able to see well enough to read or drive.
Re: US healthcare. Is this the reality?
Posted: Fri Apr 30, 2010 6:08 pm
by Beaglz
Okay to throw one out for you guys about the health care reform:
We will be taxed heavily for quite awhile before these services kick in, if they ever do. I know quite a few people that are without medical insurance around my area (low income farming community), most go to the county hospital and or clinics around here for treatment. They pay nothing. Okay now, I have health insurance which I pay premiums for and copays. When I go to the hospital (which is quite frequent anymore
), I am expected to pay out of pocket immediately. A few years ago they thought I was having a heart attack. While being treated some moron from the billing office came down and started bothering me for a $100 copay???? The person in the next treatment area was noninsured and they were not bothered one bit about any billing and all they had was the flu. I feel like because I have private insurance that these hospitals lean on me for payment immediately because they at least get paid. Most of the ones around here never pay a dime and claim they are broke.
Re: US healthcare. Is this the reality?
Posted: Fri Apr 30, 2010 6:12 pm
by Big RR
That's horrible Beaglz; I've never had a hospital ask about a copay (it was always billed). Doctor's offices always do, but never a hospital. And to dun someone while they are being examined for a potential heart attack is pretty indefensible.
Re: US healthcare. Is this the reality?
Posted: Fri Apr 30, 2010 6:17 pm
by Beaglz
My point exactly, but because I have private health insurance they know they will get money and they are pretty upfront about dunning people for it.
Right now dealing with a workers comp claim (hubby fell off a bridge he was working on and shattered his ankle). He is getting better care on the workers comp than we do with our health insurance. All medications, surgies, doctors everything, paid 100%. I asked for a wheel chair as he will be off his leg for at least 9 months and it was given immediately. Had that been my insurance, there would have been all kinds of hoops to jump through just to get the wheelchair.
Re: US healthcare. Is this the reality?
Posted: Fri Apr 30, 2010 6:30 pm
by Sue U
You understand, of course, that workers compensation benefits are mandated by the (state) government, and that they are supposed to cover ALL medical expenses related to on-the-job injuries: that is the public policy trade-off for workers losing the right to sue employers for negligence in causing injury.
Your "private" health insurance is provided under a contract that lets your insurance company determine what it will and will not pay for and what hoops you have to jump through to get any benefits. Oh, and if you're dissatisfied with its determinations, it is your insurance company that will then determine itself whether it properly denied you the benefits that you thought it was supposed to provide under its contract.
Re: US healthcare. Is this the reality?
Posted: Fri Apr 30, 2010 6:54 pm
by Gilead
Sue U wrote:Long Run wrote:
Because if it is in the news it must be so because the media never exaggerates to make a story more salable.
Gilead wrote:Looks to be very exaggerated.
What, exactly, is exaggerated in this story? Do you think there weren't hundreds of people lined up for care? Do you think the RAM clinic didn't treat 6,000 people in LA last year? Do you think uninsured people don't put off regular medical care because they can't afford it, waiting until a problem becomes serious enough to require more emergent treatment? Do you think the working poor really have health coverage that they just don't feel like using so they can line up before dawn to suck up volunteer medical services provided en masse in an arena?
What's exaggerated? Hmm..lemme see..
They began arriving before dawn on a cold, misty morning, people of all ages lining up by the hundreds, some in wheelchairs, others hobbling on crutches, many of them missing teeth, all of them seeking the same thing: free medical care.
It was a scene that could have been playing out in a Third World country or perhaps some place like post-hurricane New Orleans. But it was unfolding in Los Angeles on Tuesday, and the hundreds who showed up were mainly working people without health insurance.
Puulease, you can practically hear violins playing some sad tune while reading that. The writer is obviously trying their best to strum on your heart strings. Maybe if the picture included a crying American Indian everyone would be weeping at the end of the story.
I've been poor most of my life. I have many friends, and family that still are poor. If you are poor, and have no insurance you can get medical assistance. There are clinics, and hospitals all over the country. A large portion of these will not turn you away if you are sick. They are typically happy to work with you to set up payments to what you can afford. This article is a
dramatization of a free clinic where the people are looking for...
all of them seeking the same thing: free medical care.
Re: US healthcare. Is this the reality?
Posted: Fri Apr 30, 2010 7:17 pm
by Sue U
So let's see about those exaggerations, then:
They began arriving before dawn
True or false?
on a cold, misty morning,
True or false?
people of all ages
True or false?
lining up by the hundreds,
True or false?
some in wheelchairs, others hobbling on crutches, many of them missing teeth,
True or false?
all of them seeking the same thing: free medical care.
True or false?
It was a scene that could have been playing out in a Third World country or perhaps some place like post-hurricane New Orleans.
True or false?
But it was unfolding in Los Angeles on Tuesday, and the hundreds who showed up were mainly working people without health insurance.
True or false?
Thanks for playing . . . you got nothing.
And yes, it is a sad story indeed that so many people have to rely on this "system" of obtaining medical care.
Re: US healthcare. Is this the reality?
Posted: Fri Apr 30, 2010 7:30 pm
by @meric@nwom@n
Well here in the Indianapolis area we have Wishard hospital. If you are sick and can't pay that is where you go. You will get what you need to keep you going. It is a non-profit charity hospital and the care is pretty darned good. I am assuming that most metropolitan areas have something similar.
We still need affordable health care for the rest of us.
Re: US healthcare. Is this the reality?
Posted: Fri Apr 30, 2010 7:58 pm
by Big RR
Keep you going @W, or get you back on your feet? Hospitals usually provide care to those needing significant care for accute illnesses/injuries or accute manifestations of chronic illnesses. But I doubt they would give, say, a diabetic the drugs he needs to survie on a day to day basis, or would give out supplies of pills for the long term treatment of hypertension, etc. That's the province of physicians' offices and, if they exist in areas, clinics (chartiable or otherwise). And that's what's missing for may of the working poor and tohers who have neither private insurance nor medicaid/medicare. I'm sure some of these were among those flocking to the temporary clinic set up in LA.
And when you figure what the care in hospitals costs for those accute interventions, it's much more cost effective to provide the early intervention and follow up of primary care practioners; but that is sadly lacking in many areas.
Re: US healthcare. Is this the reality?
Posted: Fri Apr 30, 2010 8:07 pm
by Big RR
Gotcha Sue--
all of them seeking the same thing: free medical care.
True or false?
False, some were seeking free dental care.
Damn lying reporters!!!!!!
Otherwise, everyhting looks pretty true to me (although I only saw the icture, so I don't know if it was cold or misty.