The parts of the US which leech off of the rest of the US are the right-wing parts of the US.
If you live in a part of the US which suckles the most at the federal teat, you probably live in a right-wing part of the US.
If you live in a productive part of the US, you probably live in a part of the US only mildly affected with right-wingism -- a good part of the US.
The parts of the US in which liberty is valued least are the right-wing parts of the US.
If you live in a part of the US where people are constantly trying to ban books from public libraries, you probably live in a right-wing part of the US.
If you live in a part of the US where the freedom to read whatever you want is respected, you probably live in a part of the US only mildly infected with right-wingism -- a good part of the US.
If you live in a part of the US where homosexual people are derided for their homosexuality, you probably live in a right-wing part of the US.
If you live in a part of the US where homosexual people are valued as members of the community, you probably live in a part of the US only mildly infected with right-wingism -- a good part of the US.
If you live in a part of the US where it is considered normal for government operatives to search you without reason, arrest you without cause, and imprison you indefinitely without charges, you probably live in a right-wing part of the US.
If you live in a part of the US where government operatives must have legal cause to search you or arrest you or imprison you, you probably live in a part of the US only mildly infected with right-wingism.
If you live in a good part of the US, you probably live in a part of the US which has rejected right-wingism.
That's the long and short of it: If you are part of the ignorant, stupid, parasitical US, you are probably part of the right-wing US. But if you are part of the good US -- the morally and intellectually developed part of the US -- then you are probably not stuck in one of the US's right-wing shitholes.
Reminders: Things We All Know But Which Tend To Get Lost
Reminders: Things We All Know But Which Tend To Get Lost
Reason is valuable only when it performs against the wordless physical background of the universe.
Re: Reminders: Things We All Know But Which Tend To Get Lost
Thanks for using the expression "only mildly infected with right-wingism", as "left wing" does not apply. 
“If you trust in yourself, and believe in your dreams, and follow your star. . . you'll still get beaten by people who spent their time working hard and learning things and weren't so lazy.”
Re: Reminders: Things We All Know But Which Tend To Get Lost
The OP screed reads like it was written by rubato.
Not worth my time.
Not worth my time.
-
quaddriver
- Posts: 759
- Joined: Mon May 17, 2010 4:40 am
- Location: Wherever the man sends me
- Contact:
Re: Reminders: Things We All Know But Which Tend To Get Lost
2 posts in a row.....
have you recently been arrested Andrew?
have you recently been arrested Andrew?
Re: Reminders: Things We All Know But Which Tend To Get Lost
I was wondering why you haven't posted in awhile, Andrew.
Your collective inability to acknowledge this obvious truth makes you all look like fools.
yrs,
rubato
Re: Reminders: Things We All Know But Which Tend To Get Lost
There are three possible explanations for this: (a) Andrew is off his meds, or (b) his fifteen year old son got ahold of his log-in information, or (c) Andrew and rubato are the same person.
I agree with LJ. This screed is not worthy of a substantive response.
I agree with LJ. This screed is not worthy of a substantive response.
Re: Reminders: Things We All Know But Which Tend To Get Lost
No, I have not been arrested.
No, I am not off my meds.
No, I am not rubato.
What I am is sick to death of right-wingism's being taken seriously. And I have that in common with all other adults who participate in serious political discourse.
Notice that no one has attempted to controvert the facts in my previous posting. "Not worth my time" is simply Lord-Jim-speak for "Oh, shit! Facts! I will do what I always do when confronted with facts -- run away!" And "not worthy of a substantive response" is wondrously rich, coming from dgs49. When has he ever given a substantive response to anything?
The truth of the matter is that right-wingism has no legitimate claim to any place in serious political discourse -- no more than geocentrism has a legitimate claim to a place in serious scientific discourse.
When the right-wingers start spewing their puny notions, it is time for the adults to pat them on their little heads and send them off to bed.
The modern right-wing movement is entirely a corporate creation. It has no grounding in American values or traditions.
Its leaders play its followers for fools. The leaders get the followers all worked up about abortion or gay marriage or whatever, but the leaders don't give a rat's ass about those things. What they care about is stirring up the followers so that they will get up on their hind legs and vote Republican.
Everyone in Arizona knows that Joe Arpaio is nothing but a gutless, lying, sadistic, sociopathic old pervert. But teeming hordes of the ignorant, the stupid, and the evil keep right on getting up on their hind legs and voting for that scum.
Everyone who knows anything about John Yoo knowns that he, by lying, made the permissibility of torture the official policy of the US. The professionals in the Office of Professional Responsibility concluded that Yoo had given dishonest legal advice. Their opinion was squelched by a political hack, in part on the ground that it is permissible for the Office of Legal Counsel to give the President "advice ... about what [he or she] can get away with".
The truth of the matter -- a truth which is not seriously disputed -- is that Yoo and Jay Bybee lied. They flat-out lied. And in true right-wing style, they were rewarded for their lies.
(And just today, there was the gutless, lying little whore that is John Yoo getting his claims eviscerated on CNN.)
In the US these days, FOX is taken seriously. FOX, which was created not to be a news organization but to be a propaganda arm of right-wing extremism, is taken seriously.
Rush Limbaugh is taken seriously. Rush Limbaugh, whose lies and hypocrisies have been proved innumerable times, is taken seriously.
And so on.
How? By the right-wing lie that the "mainstream media" skew their reporting with a liberal bias. Sure, if one accepts the lie that FOX is "fair and balanced," then the mainstream media are skewed to the left. But if one lives in the real world, the mainstream media are skewed only slightly to the right.
And then there are the Reaganolaters. They dismiss Reagan's conspiracies to subvert the Constitution as "trivia". They constantly spew the lie that "Reagan won the Cold War." They call him the "Great Communicator," ignoring the fact that when he ventured beyond his script, he could not string three coherent sentences together.
Why? Because they are infants. They need Daddy. They have an irresistible urge to curl up on Ronnie's lap, sucking their thumbs and gurgling.
Right-wing economic policies have consistently failed for most Americans. Ronald "I hate America" Reagan's economic policies failed for most Americans. Shrub's economic policies failed for most Americans.
And yet the right-wingers keep on demanding that we continue/reinstate those failed policies. Why? Because those are the policies which the masters of the right-wing "movement" -- the very people who couldn't care less about what ordinary right-wingers want -- have decided that their little dupes should advocate.
The right-wingers blather on about left-wingers sucking up welfare benefits. But what the actual evidence indicates is that if you are on welfare, you probably vote Republican.
The right-wingers are ginning up resentment at public-sector unionized employess who get decent wages, benefits and working conditions. The focus on public-sector unions is, of course, another right-wing lie: Right-wingers hate -- well, they have been instructed to hate, so they mindlessly hate -- public-sector unions, ignorantly unaware that the people who control their opinions hate all unions.
What ordinary working people should be asking themselves is why they don't have decent wages and benefits and working conditions. Why don't they have guaranteed paid vacations?
Workers in Denmark have guaranteed paid vacations. And ordinary working people in Denmark are better off than are ordinary working people in the US.
So why don't ordinary working people in the US have the benefits that ordinary working people in every civilized country have? Becuase the masters of the right-wing "movement" in the US don't want them to have those benefits.
And on and on and on.
In opposition to the right-wingers are the real Americans. Forward-thinking, productive Americans.
It is long past time for real Americans to take the nation back from its greatest enemy: the anti-American right.
No, I am not off my meds.
No, I am not rubato.
What I am is sick to death of right-wingism's being taken seriously. And I have that in common with all other adults who participate in serious political discourse.
Notice that no one has attempted to controvert the facts in my previous posting. "Not worth my time" is simply Lord-Jim-speak for "Oh, shit! Facts! I will do what I always do when confronted with facts -- run away!" And "not worthy of a substantive response" is wondrously rich, coming from dgs49. When has he ever given a substantive response to anything?
The truth of the matter is that right-wingism has no legitimate claim to any place in serious political discourse -- no more than geocentrism has a legitimate claim to a place in serious scientific discourse.
When the right-wingers start spewing their puny notions, it is time for the adults to pat them on their little heads and send them off to bed.
The modern right-wing movement is entirely a corporate creation. It has no grounding in American values or traditions.
Its leaders play its followers for fools. The leaders get the followers all worked up about abortion or gay marriage or whatever, but the leaders don't give a rat's ass about those things. What they care about is stirring up the followers so that they will get up on their hind legs and vote Republican.
Everyone in Arizona knows that Joe Arpaio is nothing but a gutless, lying, sadistic, sociopathic old pervert. But teeming hordes of the ignorant, the stupid, and the evil keep right on getting up on their hind legs and voting for that scum.
Everyone who knows anything about John Yoo knowns that he, by lying, made the permissibility of torture the official policy of the US. The professionals in the Office of Professional Responsibility concluded that Yoo had given dishonest legal advice. Their opinion was squelched by a political hack, in part on the ground that it is permissible for the Office of Legal Counsel to give the President "advice ... about what [he or she] can get away with".
The truth of the matter -- a truth which is not seriously disputed -- is that Yoo and Jay Bybee lied. They flat-out lied. And in true right-wing style, they were rewarded for their lies.
(And just today, there was the gutless, lying little whore that is John Yoo getting his claims eviscerated on CNN.)
In the US these days, FOX is taken seriously. FOX, which was created not to be a news organization but to be a propaganda arm of right-wing extremism, is taken seriously.
Rush Limbaugh is taken seriously. Rush Limbaugh, whose lies and hypocrisies have been proved innumerable times, is taken seriously.
And so on.
How? By the right-wing lie that the "mainstream media" skew their reporting with a liberal bias. Sure, if one accepts the lie that FOX is "fair and balanced," then the mainstream media are skewed to the left. But if one lives in the real world, the mainstream media are skewed only slightly to the right.
And then there are the Reaganolaters. They dismiss Reagan's conspiracies to subvert the Constitution as "trivia". They constantly spew the lie that "Reagan won the Cold War." They call him the "Great Communicator," ignoring the fact that when he ventured beyond his script, he could not string three coherent sentences together.
Why? Because they are infants. They need Daddy. They have an irresistible urge to curl up on Ronnie's lap, sucking their thumbs and gurgling.
Right-wing economic policies have consistently failed for most Americans. Ronald "I hate America" Reagan's economic policies failed for most Americans. Shrub's economic policies failed for most Americans.
And yet the right-wingers keep on demanding that we continue/reinstate those failed policies. Why? Because those are the policies which the masters of the right-wing "movement" -- the very people who couldn't care less about what ordinary right-wingers want -- have decided that their little dupes should advocate.
The right-wingers blather on about left-wingers sucking up welfare benefits. But what the actual evidence indicates is that if you are on welfare, you probably vote Republican.
The right-wingers are ginning up resentment at public-sector unionized employess who get decent wages, benefits and working conditions. The focus on public-sector unions is, of course, another right-wing lie: Right-wingers hate -- well, they have been instructed to hate, so they mindlessly hate -- public-sector unions, ignorantly unaware that the people who control their opinions hate all unions.
What ordinary working people should be asking themselves is why they don't have decent wages and benefits and working conditions. Why don't they have guaranteed paid vacations?
Workers in Denmark have guaranteed paid vacations. And ordinary working people in Denmark are better off than are ordinary working people in the US.
So why don't ordinary working people in the US have the benefits that ordinary working people in every civilized country have? Becuase the masters of the right-wing "movement" in the US don't want them to have those benefits.
And on and on and on.
In opposition to the right-wingers are the real Americans. Forward-thinking, productive Americans.
It is long past time for real Americans to take the nation back from its greatest enemy: the anti-American right.
Reason is valuable only when it performs against the wordless physical background of the universe.
Re: Reminders: Things We All Know But Which Tend To Get Lost
Note to Andrew's child:
(1) "Facts" are provable, quantifiable assertions based on measurable things or data. "Opinions" are what people believe to be true, based on a combination of facts, , misunderstandings, interpretations, inferences, prejudices, and personal preferences. Your father knows this distinction, which is why your postings are transparently not his. Your compilations of eminently questionable opinions are in no way, shape, or form, "facts."
(2) People who use expressions like, "ordinary working people," are generally people who are not ordinary, have never held a productive job, and have NEVER broken bread with, for example, a mill worker, landscaper, or auto mechanic - people who actually ARE "ordinary working people" - and wouldn't know what to say to them if they did.
(3) Just for fun: "The modern right-wing movement is entirely a corporate creation. It has no grounding in American values or traditions."
Well. Could one fairly say that the so-called "Pro-life" movement is part of the "right-wing movement"? I dare say. The pro-life movement is based on the almost-universal Christian belief that human life begins at conception. Abortion was a CRIME in all 50 states and the District of Columbia before liberal jurists decided that it somehow conflicted with a previously unknown "right" of the pregnant mother. The "right wing" position on this issue is utterly and completely grounded in traditional American values.
As is the "right-wing" position that gay marriage is unacceptable.
As are the "right-wing" positions that the Federal government has no legitimate role in, for example, education, broadcasting, "Fine Arts," or redistribution of private wealth. These positions are all based on traditional American values.
Honestly, I can't believe that the person who posted these two vacuous rants is the same person that has distinguished himself in the past with cogent, fact-based, well-considered essays on such a wide variety of subjects.
Something is not right.
(1) "Facts" are provable, quantifiable assertions based on measurable things or data. "Opinions" are what people believe to be true, based on a combination of facts, , misunderstandings, interpretations, inferences, prejudices, and personal preferences. Your father knows this distinction, which is why your postings are transparently not his. Your compilations of eminently questionable opinions are in no way, shape, or form, "facts."
(2) People who use expressions like, "ordinary working people," are generally people who are not ordinary, have never held a productive job, and have NEVER broken bread with, for example, a mill worker, landscaper, or auto mechanic - people who actually ARE "ordinary working people" - and wouldn't know what to say to them if they did.
(3) Just for fun: "The modern right-wing movement is entirely a corporate creation. It has no grounding in American values or traditions."
Well. Could one fairly say that the so-called "Pro-life" movement is part of the "right-wing movement"? I dare say. The pro-life movement is based on the almost-universal Christian belief that human life begins at conception. Abortion was a CRIME in all 50 states and the District of Columbia before liberal jurists decided that it somehow conflicted with a previously unknown "right" of the pregnant mother. The "right wing" position on this issue is utterly and completely grounded in traditional American values.
As is the "right-wing" position that gay marriage is unacceptable.
As are the "right-wing" positions that the Federal government has no legitimate role in, for example, education, broadcasting, "Fine Arts," or redistribution of private wealth. These positions are all based on traditional American values.
Honestly, I can't believe that the person who posted these two vacuous rants is the same person that has distinguished himself in the past with cogent, fact-based, well-considered essays on such a wide variety of subjects.
Something is not right.
-
quaddriver
- Posts: 759
- Joined: Mon May 17, 2010 4:40 am
- Location: Wherever the man sends me
- Contact:
Re: Reminders: Things We All Know But Which Tend To Get Lost
what are 'traditional american values'?
our founding fathers were all slave owning rich white guys who kept women 2 steps behind and to the right....
our founding fathers were all slave owning rich white guys who kept women 2 steps behind and to the right....
Re: Reminders: Things We All Know But Which Tend To Get Lost
Almost universal? Honestly, you should follow your own suggestion re the distinction of facts and opinion. Otherwise, I'd love to see your proof of this assertion.he almost-universal Christian belief that human life begins at conception
Re: Reminders: Things We All Know But Which Tend To Get Lost
Not to mention factually inaccurate. The earliest piont that a child could come from a fertilization is at implantation (approximately a week after conception) and even that is even subject to the primary rules of real estate to be realistically considered viable.
Okay... There's all kinds of things wrong with what you just said.
-
quaddriver
- Posts: 759
- Joined: Mon May 17, 2010 4:40 am
- Location: Wherever the man sends me
- Contact:
Re: Reminders: Things We All Know But Which Tend To Get Lost
the original assertion 'almost universal' means to me 'just about all christian denominations save a few'. you are clearly disputing this.Big RR wrote:Almost universal? Honestly, you should follow your own suggestion re the distinction of facts and opinion. Otherwise, I'd love to see your proof of this assertion.he almost-universal Christian belief that human life begins at conception
whiich way do you dispute it?
a) all denominations think this way or
b) very few denominations
c) no denominations
now i am not the most religious person here. In fact, I am not religious at all. but I would have to claim blindness and deafness to not realize that catholicism, mormonism and all baptist think this way. thats a fairly large chunk, if not an outright supermajority. this comes close, if not meeting daves standard.
I will let you weigh in on presby, methodist, lutheran etc. It is not unreasonable to ask you to provide backup for your disagreement?
Re: Reminders: Things We All Know But Which Tend To Get Lost
Do you believe that being a Catholic means that you can't have a different opinion than the Pope on when life begins?
Re: Reminders: Things We All Know But Which Tend To Get Lost
Actually the whole conception thing isn't followed by the majority of Christian sects as they have no problem with birth control.
Okay... There's all kinds of things wrong with what you just said.
-
quaddriver
- Posts: 759
- Joined: Mon May 17, 2010 4:40 am
- Location: Wherever the man sends me
- Contact:
Re: Reminders: Things We All Know But Which Tend To Get Lost
Having a published tenet vs not obeying said tenets are two different things.Crackpot wrote:Actually the whole conception thing isn't followed by the majority of Christian sects as they have no problem with birth control.
I think they are also against premarital nooky, booze, drugs, titty bars and HBO but that never stops anyone.
Dave brought up another point - gay marriage. It endlessly gets shot down by majorities that indicate 100% republican voting wont cover. Legalization of some drugs as well.
Re: Reminders: Things We All Know But Which Tend To Get Lost
quaddriver wrote:
Having a published tenet vs not obeying said tenets are two different things.
I think they are also against premarital nooky, booze, drugs, titty bars and HBO but that never stops anyone.
Dave brought up another point - gay marriage. It endlessly gets shot down by majorities that indicate 100% republican voting wont cover. Legalization of some drugs as well.
Re: Reminders: Things We All Know But Which Tend To Get Lost
I would say that the universal illegality of abortion in Christian nations up until, say, 1960 (including the United States), is a pretty good indication that the lawmakers were convinced that the "tissue" in the womb was at least proto-human. The fact that these laws have been loosened or repealed recently does not change the fact that this is a traditional, long-standing American belief and value.
To propose that because many of the signers of the Declaration of Independence owned slaves, there are no "traditional American values," is a bit silly, wouldn't you think?
The fact that many "Christians" use birth control has nothing to do with whether they believe a fetus is human (and abortion is morally unacceptable). The moral rationales for not using artificial birth control and for not killing unborn babies are completely different - and they are in fact unrelated.
Yes, being Catholic means that you cannot have a "different opinion," on significant, substantive moral issues. Going your own way is a Protestant thing. Essentially ALL Catholics believe that abortion is morally untenable, and yet many Catholics choose to have abortions. Just as many Catholics believe that it is wrong to steal, -and yet they cheat on their income taxes, they believe that it is wrong to get drunk - and yet they get drunk. And so on.
To say that "I am Catholic," but deny the fundamental teachings of the Church is self-delusional. As the expression goes, "You have excommunicated yourself."
To propose that because many of the signers of the Declaration of Independence owned slaves, there are no "traditional American values," is a bit silly, wouldn't you think?
The fact that many "Christians" use birth control has nothing to do with whether they believe a fetus is human (and abortion is morally unacceptable). The moral rationales for not using artificial birth control and for not killing unborn babies are completely different - and they are in fact unrelated.
Yes, being Catholic means that you cannot have a "different opinion," on significant, substantive moral issues. Going your own way is a Protestant thing. Essentially ALL Catholics believe that abortion is morally untenable, and yet many Catholics choose to have abortions. Just as many Catholics believe that it is wrong to steal, -and yet they cheat on their income taxes, they believe that it is wrong to get drunk - and yet they get drunk. And so on.
To say that "I am Catholic," but deny the fundamental teachings of the Church is self-delusional. As the expression goes, "You have excommunicated yourself."
Re: Reminders: Things We All Know But Which Tend To Get Lost
A person (Christian) can disagree with the idea that life begins at conception and still be against abortion.dgs49 wrote: Yes, being Catholic means that you cannot have a "different opinion," on significant, substantive moral issues. Going your own way is a Protestant thing. Essentially ALL Catholics believe that abortion is morally untenable, and yet many Catholics choose to have abortions.
-
quaddriver
- Posts: 759
- Joined: Mon May 17, 2010 4:40 am
- Location: Wherever the man sends me
- Contact:
Re: Reminders: Things We All Know But Which Tend To Get Lost
yeah it would be, good thing I didnt propose that. I asked a question to determine how you or anyone are determining 'traditional' values when the people who set the shop up, did things we might look askance at today....dgs49 wrote:To propose that because many of the signers of the Declaration of Independence owned slaves, there are no "traditional American values," is a bit silly, wouldn't you think?
."
Re: Reminders: Things We All Know But Which Tend To Get Lost
You're making an affirmative assertion, it is up to you to back it up. I'm not saying that it is incorrect, only that I have no reason to think that it is correct, and am asking you for that proof. While I have heard some denominations saying exactly what you do, I have not heard any position one way or the other from the majority of denominations I am aware of.quaddriver wrote:the original assertion 'almost universal' means to me 'just about all christian denominations save a few'. you are clearly disputing this.Big RR wrote:Almost universal? Honestly, you should follow your own suggestion re the distinction of facts and opinion. Otherwise, I'd love to see your proof of this assertion.he almost-universal Christian belief that human life begins at conception
whiich way do you dispute it?
a) all denominations think this way or
b) very few denominations
c) no denominations
now i am not the most religious person here. In fact, I am not religious at all. but I would have to claim blindness and deafness to not realize that catholicism, mormonism and all baptist think this way. thats a fairly large chunk, if not an outright supermajority. this comes close, if not meeting daves standard.
I will let you weigh in on presby, methodist, lutheran etc. It is not unreasonable to ask you to provide backup for your disagreement?
One can be against abortion (saying, e.g., that it interferes with "god's plan" for the individual conceived) without accepting life begins at conception. and FWIW, "proto human" does not mean it is human or alive at the time of conception. I doubt very much that anyone would argue that a fertilized ovum is "proto human" in the sense that it can develop into a human being when kept in utero under the right conditions, but this is a long cry from being alive. Seeds are "proto plants", but they do not from a plant until after germination (akin to the birth of the plant).I would say that the universal illegality of abortion in Christian nations up until, say, 1960 (including the United States), is a pretty good indication that the lawmakers were convinced that the "tissue" in the womb was at least proto-human.