Plan B Forum

Sure, we can barf up "social norms" and the like, but what does that tell us? Nothing more than this: The laws should be what they are, because they are what they are. Does anyone really find that convincing?

Consider this:

In general, I can be walking down the street on a hot day, find myself uncomfortably warm, pull off my T-shirt, and continue walking down the street with my nipples exposed to the world; in the eyes of the law, I am doing nothing wrong.

In general, a woman can be walking down the streeton a hot day, find herself uncomfortably warm, pull off her T-shirt, and continue walking down the street with her nipples exposed to the world; in the eyes of the law, she is committing a crime (albeit a minor one).

Does anyone care -- does anyone even dare to try -- to explain how that makes any sense?

Because men would drive off the road and kill someone if they see that woman. A woman wouldn't really care one way or the other about seeing the guy.

IOW, biology

Really?

I find women's bodies as attractive as does the next (heterosexual) guy. But drive off the road and run the risk of killing someone just so I can see some tits?

How old are you?

Why aren't homosexual men driving off the road and killing people when other men walk shirtless down the street? Are they somehow more mature than are heterosexual men?

And even if that weird fantasy were somehow a real risk, what about women's taking off their shirts inside concert arenas? What's going to happen -- men crashing their pickups through the gates to get a little look-see?

I blame religion.

It's the MOTU's doing.

Besides, there are people dying in Africa.

Besides, there are people dying in Africa.

It did strike me as somewhat humorous and ironic that a guy who criticizes people for giving so much attention to silly and trivial things would adopt the expansion of nudist rights as a personal crusade....

Because most people are so goddamed ugly.

Lord Jim wrote:

Besides, there are people dying in Africa.

It did strike me as somewhat humorous and ironic that a guy who criticizes people for giving so much attention to silly and trivial things would adopt the expansion of nudist rights as a personal crusade....

I'm sure that it did.

After all, the alternative would be thinking.

You know, that possibility that has been lurking in your head and that you're desperately afraid of.

Your phrase "nudist rights" is a lie.

Not a misunderstanding, not merely a distortion, a flat-out lie.

And we both know it.

Scooter wrote:Besides, there are people dying in Africa.

That's right. There are. In their millions.

Yes, I have commented about other things. So what?

When was your last posting about people dying in Africa?

When was the last time you gave a shit about them?

@meric@nwom@n wrote:Because most people are so goddamed ugly.

I often cite this reality as a basis for why it should be illegal for men to go shirtless in public, forcing the rest of us to view their MOOBS; or in other cases, excessively hairy bodies.

But then, I think there should be a license required to wear spandex, too. And I would not qualify for one.

Andrew D wrote:When was your last posting about people dying in Africa?

When was the last time you gave a shit about them?

When I was in Botswana in March helping out at the clinic I helped found to serve people living with HIV.

Can Anyone Explain How Nudity Laws Make Any Sense?



They don't.

Conventional mores would offer a clearer explanation, I believe.

Scooter wrote:

Andrew D wrote:When was your last posting about people dying in Africa?

When was the last time you gave a shit about them?

When I was in Botswana in March helping out at the clinic I helped found to serve people living with HIV.

So why are you making a mockery of them now?

Oddly, although you have made repeated references to your work in Africa with people living with HIV, I don't recall anything that would enable any of us to see what that work actually has been.

I don't claim that my work for the Tibetans is the kind of hands-on work that a clinic does. I am a lawyer, not a doctor. I don't have any hands-on skills that would be of value in a clinic.

But the stuff, such as it is -- and I leave it to others to ascribe to it what ever value they wish -- is out there for anyone to see. It takes about a minute to find it on the internet. Because although I do not post here with my full name, I post here with enough of my name to make my work easy to find. Why don't you?

Still, I can take you at your word. That brings up a serious question:

Why have you not been posting about the slaughter in Sub-Saharan Africa?

You've been there. Okay, you weren't in the Congo, but the spillover has spread all over Sub-Saharan Africa, including Botswana.

So why haven't you been posting about what you have a better eye-on-the-scene view of than I do? Or than anyone else here does?

Why has it been me, a white guy living in suburban North California who has never been anywhere near Sub-Saharan Africa, who has been posting -- nowhere near often enough, for which I take full blame -- about what has been happening in the Congo?

Why haven't you been raging about this? Why haven't you been updating everyone here about the sickening mass murders and mass dismemberments and mass rapes and everything else?

For that matter, why haven't you been telling us about what you have been doing in Botswana and what else needs doing and how we could help?

Do you think that we are just little blobs who don't care what happens in the world around us?

Andrew, get over yourself. Seriously. You just aren't all that and a bag of chips as you seem to think you are.

No, I'm not all that. In fact, I'm not much of anything.

I'm just a guy who spends most of his time doing his part to keep a comfortable suburban life going for his wife and himself. No heroism in that. Just ordinary, middle-class life in the US.

From time to time, I do my little bit. Not much, really. Yeah, my work for the Tibetans did help some with getting the point across that they are entitled to self-determination. And it did help some with bringing what was happening to them a little closer to the forefront of the global consciousness. Probably not a lot, all in all, but a little.

Still, puny as my contribution has been, one can find it.

Where is yours?

I am not saying that your contribution does not exist. I don't know.

Which is rather the point. Put up. Show us that you really have done the things that you claim to have done. Or let your claims fall into the same hole as Seaman Ray's claims to naval expertise.

The choice is yours.

I live in Santa Cruz. The 'clothing optional' capital of the world.

Berkeley has one (1) ONE naked guy and its news. Here an entire hall of students can go to thanksgiving dinner naked and no one says anything.

I just don't see a big problem here.

yrs,
rubato

Your phrase "nudist rights" is a lie.

Not a misunderstanding, not merely a distortion, a flat-out lie.

And we both know it.

LOL

Not a bit of it...

Anyone who has been reading your posts for any length of time, (which would include most regular participants here) knows full well that the "right" of people to go about starkers pretty much anywhere any time they choose has been a recurrent theme of yours, and an ax you have grinded for years....

And we both know it.

Andrew D wrote:Really?

I find women's bodies as attractive as does the next (heterosexual) guy. But drive off the road and run the risk of killing someone just so I can see some tits?

No really, it happens. I've seen it myself a few times.

In San Jose, the most brakes squealed in 60 seconds, was caused by a young girl with a pair of Double 'D's that weren't even fully exposed. She was not nude, but wearing a pair of overalls ...and nothing else underneath them. Technically, enough of her breasts were covered by the bib portion in the front of the denim overalls to constitute public decency; but just barely. The side boobage alone, was making massive traffic altercations every minute. While, I was gandering too, and I'm not even lesbo! When she walked, the way those babies bounced was mind boggling, and brakes were burning all over that intersection.

Andrew D wrote:Still, puny as my contribution has been, one can find it.

Where is yours?

I am not saying that your contribution does not exist. I don't know.

Which is rather the point. Put up. Show us that you really have done the things that you claim to have done. Or let your claims fall into the same hole as Seaman Ray's claims to naval expertise.

The choice is yours.

What exactly do you want to know? It is the infectious disease clinic at Maun General Hospital in Botswana. My contributions have been in the areas of governance, organizational development and financial management. I have occasionally spoken about it on the CSB.

Is that all? Do I get a cookie?