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Sowing, reaping: Maybe you should've thought this through

Posted: Thu Jun 23, 2011 10:14 pm
by Sue U
So Georgia's good ol' boys decided to jump on Arizona's bandwagon and get tough on them ill eagles, and now the crops are rotting in the fields because there's no one to pick them. Oh, they'd love to bring back the chain gangs but it seems slave laborers just don't work as hard as Messicans. Georgia farmers are going to lose hundreds of millions, and food prices will spike. Way to prove a point, you idiots!
Georgia immigrant crackdown backfires

By REID J. EPSTEIN | 6/22/11 1:42 PM EDT Updated: 6/22/11 5:27 PM EDT

Georgia Gov. Nathan Deal’s program to replace fleeing migrant farmworkers with probationers backfired when some of the convicted criminals started walking off their jobs because field work was too strenuous, it was reported Wednesday.

And the state’s farms could lose up to $1 billion if crops continue to go unpicked and rot, the president of the Georgia Agribusiness Council warned.

In a story datelined Leslie, in rural south Georgia, The Associated Press writes of convicts calling it quits at 3:25 p.m. — more than 2½ hours before the crew of Mexicans and Guatemalans they replaced.

“Those guys out here weren’t out there 30 minutes and they got the bucket and just threw them in the air and say, `Bonk this. I ain’t with this. I can’t do this,’” said Jermond Powell, a 33-year-old probationer working at a farm in Leslie. “They just left, took off across the field walking.”

Georgia, which passed an Arizona-style immigration bill in April that is due to take effect next month, has seen thousands of undocumented immigrants flee the state. A state survey released last week found 11,080 vacant positions on state farms that needed to be filled to avoid losing crops.

At the same time as the survey’s release, Deal, a first-term Republican, announced a program to link the state’s 100,000 probationers with farmers looking to fill positions, the vast majority of which pay less than $15 per hour.

The AP reported the first group of probationers began working last week at an Americus farm owned by Dick Minor, president of the Georgia Fruit and Vegetable Growers Association.

Minor’s farm was the second-largest recipient of federal farm subsidies in Georgia, receiving $11.4 million between 2000 and 2009, The Atlanta Journal-Constitution reported.

The executive director of the fruit and vegetable growers group, Charles Hall, said the Minor farm is one of two participating in a pilot program to see if Deal’s proposal is operable.

Hall told POLITICO that as many as two-thirds of probationers who have tried working on the two farms in the last week have either walked off the job or not come back for a second day.

“The thing that you gotta have when you have crop in the field, you have to have a dependable work force,” Hall said. “You got to work through enough people. If you need a crew of six, you may have to start with 20.”

In prior years, Hall said, “you probably had a crew leader who had people who worked with him. He put six people in the field and he got your squash picked.”

Bryan Tolar, president of the Georgia Agribusiness Council, said farms have already lost $300 million and could lose up to $1 billion if it does not get access to a reliable workforce.

“People come out and they have an idea of what they’re going to be doing,” Tolar said. “As soon as they start doing it and find out that its more difficult and more work required than they’d anticipated, they leave.”

***
http://www.politico.com/news/stories/06 ... z1Q8cv51Lu
Ga’s farm-labor crisis playing out as planned

7:22 am June 17, 2011, by Jay Bookman

After enacting House Bill 87, a law designed to drive illegal immigrants out of Georgia, state officials appear shocked to discover that HB 87 is, well, driving a lot of illegal immigrants out of Georgia.

It might be funny if it wasn’t so sad.

Thanks to the resulting labor shortage, Georgia farmers have been forced to leave millions of dollars’ worth of blueberries, onions, melons and other crops unharvested and rotting in the fields. It has also put state officials into something of a panic at the damage they’ve done to Georgia’s largest industry.

Barely a month ago, you might recall, Gov. Nathan Deal welcomed the TV cameras into his office as he proudly signed HB 87 into law. Two weeks later, with farmers howling, a scrambling Deal ordered a hasty investigation into the impact of the law he had just signed, as if all this had come as quite a surprise to him.

The results of that investigation have now been released. According to survey of 230 Georgia farmers conducted by Agriculture Commissioner Gary Black, farmers expect to need more than 11,000 workers at some point over the rest of the season, a number that probably underestimates the real need, since not every farmer in the state responded to the survey.

In response, Deal proposes that farmers try to hire the 2,000 unemployed criminal probationers estimated to live in southwest Georgia. Somehow, I suspect that would not be a partnership made in heaven for either party.

As an editorial in the Valdosta Daily Times notes, “Maybe this should have been prepared for, with farmers’ input. Maybe the state should have discussed the ramifications with those directly affected. Maybe the immigration issue is not as easy as ’send them home,’ but is a far more complex one in that maybe Georgia needs them, relies on them, and cannot successfully support the state’s No. 1 economic engine without them.

According to the survey, more than 6,300 of the unclaimed jobs pay an hourly wage of just $7.25 to $8.99, or an average of roughly $8 an hour. Over a 40-hour work week in the South Georgia sun, that’s $320 a week, before taxes, although most workers probably put in considerably longer hours. Another 3,200 jobs pay $9 to $11 an hour. And while our agriculture commissioner has been quoted as saying Georgia farms provide “$12, $13, $14, $16, $18-an-hour jobs,” the survey reported just 169 openings out of more than 11,000 that pay $16 or more.

In addition, few of the jobs include benefits — only 7.7 percent offer health insurance, and barely a third are even covered by workers compensation. And the truth is that even if all 2,000 probationers in the region agreed to work at those rates and stuck it out — a highly unlikely event, to put it mildly — it wouldn’t fix the problem.

Given all that, Deal’s pledge to find “viable and law-abiding solutions” to the problem that he helped create seems naively far-fetched. Again, if such solutions existed, they should have been put in place before the bill ever became law, because this impact was entirely predictable and in fact intended.

It’s hard to envision a way out of this. Georgia farmers could try to solve the manpower shortage by offering higher wages, but that would create an entirely different set of problems. If they raise wages by a third to a half, which is probably what it would take, they would drive up their operating costs and put themselves at a severe price disadvantage against competitors in states without such tough immigration laws. That’s one of the major disadvantages of trying to implement immigration reform state by state, rather than all at once.

The pain this is causing is real. People are going to lose their crops, and in some cases their farms. The small-town businesses that supply those farms with goods and services are going to suffer as well. For economically embattled rural Georgia, this could be a major blow.

In fact, with a federal court challenge filed last week, you have to wonder whether state officials aren’t secretly hoping to be rescued from this mess by the intervention of a judge. But given how the Georgia law is drafted and how the Supreme Court ruled in a recent case out of Arizona, I don’t think that’s likely.

We’re going to reap what we have sown, even if the farmers can’t.

http://blogs.ajc.com/jay-bookman-blog/2 ... s-planned/

Re: Sowing, reaping: Maybe you should've thought this throug

Posted: Thu Jun 23, 2011 10:23 pm
by Gob
That would be so funny if it wasn't such a waste of food...

Is forcing prisoners to work legal over there?

Re: Sowing, reaping: Maybe you should've thought this throug

Posted: Thu Jun 23, 2011 10:30 pm
by Scooter
From those of us who have been saying this about illegal immigration for years: I TOLD YOU SO!!

Even in this economy, farmers are finding it difficult for someone to work for the shit wages necessary in order to bring an affordable product to market. Go figure.

Re: Sowing, reaping: Maybe you should've thought this throug

Posted: Thu Jun 23, 2011 11:16 pm
by kristina
Gob wrote:That would be so funny if it wasn't such a waste of food...

Is forcing prisoners to work legal over there?

They've been released from prison after serving a sentence and they're on probation, if I understood correctly.

Re: Sowing, reaping: Maybe you should've thought this throug

Posted: Thu Jun 23, 2011 11:23 pm
by Gob
Thanks for the clarification Kristina, is this some way of getting their probation shortened then?

Re: Sowing, reaping: Maybe you should've thought this throug

Posted: Thu Jun 23, 2011 11:42 pm
by kristina
I'm not sure, Gob. It might be a way of trying to get them some (barely) paying work.

Re: Sowing, reaping: Maybe you should've thought this throug

Posted: Fri Jun 24, 2011 12:24 am
by dales
"Work Furlogh" is done by county prisoners whie still incarerated, at least it was when I was at this place.

Elmwood Correctional Facility
Image

edited: I believe the renumeration consisted of having days added to "good time" credits. It was a voluntary program for low-level offenders of which I wasn't one. I paid my dues, went through probation, checked in with my PO. He granted me permission to move out of Santa Clara County and I never looked back. :ok

Re: Sowing, reaping: Maybe you should've thought this throug

Posted: Fri Jun 24, 2011 12:27 am
by Lord Jim
It's easy to see how you thought that this was about prison labor Strop. Sue's chain gang reference was completely misleading.


I'm not sure from the article that these jobs are "barely paying" or "shit wages"...
a program to link the state’s 100,000 probationers with farmers looking to fill positions, the vast majority of which pay less than $15 per hour.
How much less? If these jobs pay 12 or 13 dollars an hour, that's higher than the minimum wage in California, and I'm sure the cost of living in rural Georgia is less than it is in the Bay Area...And people on probation now have criminal records, and frequently have trouble finding employment of any kind.

The problem here may not be the wages; the problem may be that the people the jobs have been targeted to either have no reliable work history, or at the very least have no experience with this kind of manual labor and didn't know what they were getting in to...
Hall told POLITICO that as many as two-thirds of probationers who have tried working on the two farms in the last week have either walked off the job or not come back for a second day.
Well good...at least you know who isn't going to work out right away; (I wish all the people that I've hired over the years who didn't work out hadn't shown up the second day. What a time saver that would have been....)
“The thing that you gotta have when you have crop in the field, you have to have a dependable work force,” Hall said. “You got to work through enough people. If you need a crew of six, you may have to start with 20.”
Well, uhh, then that's what you do...(I'll wave my consulting fee)
Bryan Tolar, president of the Georgia Agribusiness Council, said farms have already lost $300 million and could lose up to $1 billion if it does not get access to a reliable workforce.
The probationer idea may have been well intended, (as I said a lot of folks on probation have trouble finding work) but if the situation is that critical, can it. Promote through the state EDD and other channels, and hire people who have some experience with manual labor. It's not like there aren't plenty of folks in that category looking for work.

Re: Sowing, reaping: Maybe you should've thought this throug

Posted: Fri Jun 24, 2011 12:31 am
by dales
din't rube do this type of work at one time?

Re: Sowing, reaping: Maybe you should've thought this throug

Posted: Fri Jun 24, 2011 12:48 am
by dgs49
Ahhh, let's just see how this plays out.

The labor market includes not only probationers and parolees, but also thousands of people who are just out of work.

Any farmer who would let his crops rot in the field rather than pay more money to get the workers he needs is not playing with a full deck.

God knows, this ain't easy work, and some people who are willing to work generally just cannot cut it in this harsh environment, but it's like anything else, once the price (wage) goes up high enough, the workers will come around.

Furthermore, the U.S. does have provisions for guest workers on temporary visas.

Again, these stories were not written by people wanting to impart the truth; they were written by people who want to write about a crisis, whether one exists or not.

Re: Sowing, reaping: Maybe you should've thought this throug

Posted: Fri Jun 24, 2011 2:35 am
by Scooter
The problem, Dave, is that the farmer then has to be able to sell the crop at a price which will recoup the cost of labour to bring it in. Why do you imagine illegals were so popular as farm labourers? Because profit margins are low, illegals are used to long hours of back breaking work, and aren't going to complain to anyone about working conditions or not getting paid time and a half for overtime.

Re: Sowing, reaping: Maybe you should've thought this throug

Posted: Fri Jun 24, 2011 12:24 pm
by rubato
The farmer has a problem he can never solve before the crop is useless. The anti-immigrant jerks are about to get a little lesson.

The market cannot react to cost increases by increasing prices before the crop rots. The farmer cannot afford to harvest if he knows that he will be paying 110% of the price in costs.

You can tolerate hiring a few unskilled people if most of them know how to do it. They have zero skilled people now.

It is hard physical work and you have to be in shape physically to do it. You see any grossly obese fruit pickers? Now what fraction of the potential workforce are too fat and out of shape? Nearly all of your workforce are sedentary schlubs. Teenagers were popular for seasonal labor because they were generally fit and healthy and 'summer vacation' was timed to accomodate. Do you have 3 months to figure out which of your labor force can do it or be conditioned into the work on the job? No, you have a few days to get it done and delivered.

yrs,
rubato

Re: Sowing, reaping: Maybe you should've thought this throug

Posted: Fri Jun 24, 2011 12:40 pm
by Andrew D
Lord Jim wrote:It's easy to see how you thought that this was about prison labor Strop. Sue's chain gang reference was completely misleading.


I'm not sure from the article that these jobs are "barely paying" or "shit wages"...
a program to link the state’s 100,000 probationers with farmers looking to fill positions, the vast majority of which pay less than $15 per hour.
How much less?
Um, maybe this much:
According to the survey, more than 6,300 of the unclaimed jobs pay an hourly wage of just $7.25 to $8.99, or an average of roughly $8 an hour. Over a 40-hour work week in the South Georgia sun, that’s $320 a week, before taxes, although most workers probably put in considerably longer hours. Another 3,200 jobs pay $9 to $11 an hour. And while our agriculture commissioner has been quoted as saying Georgia farms provide “$12, $13, $14, $16, $18-an-hour jobs,” the survey reported just 169 openings out of more than 11,000 that pay $16 or more.
rubato wrote:The farmer has a problem he can never solve before the crop is useless. The anti-immigrant jerks are about to get a little lesson.
No, the farmers are going to get a little lesson: Pay a wage someone can actually live on.

The farmers have made themselves dependent upon paying shit wages, and now their chickens are coming home to roost. Ain't life a bitch?

Re: Sowing, reaping: Maybe you should've thought this throug

Posted: Fri Jun 24, 2011 12:54 pm
by Sue U
Nice to see you back, Andrew.

Re: Sowing, reaping: Maybe you should've thought this throug

Posted: Fri Jun 24, 2011 12:59 pm
by Scooter
Andrew D wrote:No, the farmers are going to get a little lesson: Pay a wage someone can actually live on.
They can if we're all prepared to pay significantly more for the food we eat.

And what Sue said.

Re: Sowing, reaping: Maybe you should've thought this throug

Posted: Fri Jun 24, 2011 1:07 pm
by rubato
Not significant at all.

Farm labor is a very small part of the delivered cost of food. In fact, the entire portion which goes to the farmer is usually a minor fraction of the total.

yrs,
rubato

Re: Sowing, reaping: Maybe you should've thought this throug

Posted: Fri Jun 24, 2011 1:11 pm
by Andrew D
Thanks, Sue U and Scooter.

Significantly more?

Last time I checked, which was a while ago, there were, in the US, more than a thousand consumers of agricultural products for every one agricultural worker.

The farmers should have been paying decent wages all along. They didn't. Now they're screwed.

And if my eating fewer blueberries, onions, and melons -- not too likely, considering where I live -- is necessary to make the farmers start paying living wages, I can live with that.

Re: Sowing, reaping: Maybe you should've thought this throug

Posted: Fri Jun 24, 2011 1:14 pm
by Crackpot
I heard pickers get paid by output which nets upward of $15/hr. but much less until you become "skilled" at it.

Re: Sowing, reaping: Maybe you should've thought this throug

Posted: Fri Jun 24, 2011 1:44 pm
by Guinevere
You need to roll in the effect of agricultural subsidies to this equation as well, and the effect of the highly subsidized water, so that farmers can produce low value crops in unsuitable areas -- at a huge cost. Reallocate those resources and you could pay the farmer fairly, pay the farm workers fairly, and have reasonably priced agricultural commodities.

Re: Sowing, reaping: Maybe you should've thought this throug

Posted: Fri Jun 24, 2011 2:51 pm
by Lord Jim
the effect of the highly subsidized water, so that farmers can produce low value crops in unsuitable areas
When I first moved out here, I was amazed to discover that they were growing rice in Southern California...about the most water intensive crop you can imagine, being grown on an industrial scale in a region where the vast bulk of the water has to be brought in from outside the area...

It makes absolutely no sense.