Plan B Forum

It has recently come to light that the former Defensive Coordinator at Penn State University, Jerry Sandusky, was a serial pederast, who used a charitable foundation he founded as a source for "at risk" boys to bugger, over a period of decades.

On at least two occasions, he was caught raping young boys in the School's football shower room - a fact that was brought to the attention of iconic Coach Joe Paterno (a notorious and unapologetic Roman Catholic), but the University decided that rather than reporting these facts and circumstances to the criminal authorities they would merely take away the offender's keys to the football facilities and tell him to stop doing that.

The offender is currently free on bond, and two university officials have been indicted, though Paterno has not.

Sandusky is an award-winning coach, who was instrumental in the success of many Nitanny Lions teams during his more than 30 years on the staff. He is sometimes credited with earning the appellation, "Linebacker U," for Penn State. He retired when told by Pateno that he would not be "first in line" to replace him, if and when Paterno decides to step down.

As of last night, students were rallying around Coach "Joe-Pa's" house, voicing their full support for the octogenarian icon. After all, what's most important? Criminality and child sexual abuse or football? The Student Body has spoken.

As a Pitt graduate...does the word, "schadenfreude" fit? I think that's it.

They've always been aware. And everyone has always known it.

Well, at least everyone who pays attention.

BSG and I started talking about this in another thread...

Regardless of how one feels about how Paterno handled this when it was brought to his attention by a third party, (he reported it exactly as he was supposed to, but yes, he could have been more aggressive in making sure that the people he reported it to met their obligations...it should also be remembered that when this happened the guy was no longer working for Paterno) it's important to point out that absent any proof, it would be a ludicrous and groundless smear for anyone to try to claim (as I saw one pundit do on the news yesterday) that Paterno had any prior knowledge of this scum bag's activities and looked the other way.

Child molesters , much like serial killers, are not generally known for broadcasting their activities....Indeed, they go to great lengths to conceal their activities from those close to them; co-workers, friends, spouses, etc.

They are very accomplished at being sneaky and duplicitous and "compartmentalizing" and leading double lives; that's how they get away with what they do.

Anyone who wants to suggest that Paterno, (or anyone else) knew about this creep's activities prior to the incident in 2002 should either provide some strong proof for that charge, or STFU.

I too Dave, have possibly earned some credits from Pitt, but remain a loyal PSU fan having lived in close proximity for *a while*.

the police, who are only too eager to roll someone up, have declined to even approach JoePa.

while it is assured that none of us know the facts, we do know he reported the incident. the person he reported the incident to has been arrested for covering it up.

but consider something, a student (thats what graduate assistant means) told joepa he saw this, and it was reported - no one is disputing this. But JoePa is behing held accountable to some vaporous standard that he 'didnt do enough'. Really? He witnessed nothing. He was told something by an eye witness (something the cops would very very much like to have) who did nothing himself. Did the athletic director come back and threaten everyone?

I saw a pundit on CNNSI today claim that even tho the AD was JoePas boss, JoePa is a larger figure and therefore the true boss.

Really? I can off the top of my head put together a short list of no-name ADs who outright dismissed national icon coaches on a whim and without hesitation.

We dont know the nature of the report Joe made to the AD. It may or maynot come out publicly. I am sure any report would have included the students name. Will the student say he never heard jack? (if so why didnt HE approach the police). Will the student claim he was threatened?

Like some of you, I am a parent. And as such I hand around other parents. those of us in that club ALWAYS here and there hear rumorish reports that some adult has behaved innapropriately somewhere. do you report it? do you ask the teller of the story 'Did you report that since you have such direct evidence?' I do. it never does get reported, which leads me to believe that some of this direct evidence, is not as direct as initially portrayed.

Am I saying such crimes do not occur? No.

I am saying tho that this topic has no shortage of hyperbole.

Mebbe it will come out that the AD *did* confront the student and got a detailed version of the events and hushed it up. The Rockville Troop of the PSP decided he needed a ride in a crown vic so *something* occured.

this may or maynot come out and we are going to hear pundits espouse feigned (mostly) and real rage and anger. and for good reason. In this country we love more, a story of someone big going down, over a sex scandal.

but as everyone spouts off and points fingers and issues proclaimations the one thing that will be overlooked and not mentioned is: Sandusky has not had a trial.

what if he is found not guilty?

after all, MJ was REPEATEDLY found not guilty, and he admitted to being alone with the boys.

these events do not erase the legacy of work that JoePa has built, regardless of the CNNSI pundit I read this am. His non- W/L record of achievement within the NCAA and the standards he set for his students stands fast.

No violations. dismissal for players convicted of crimes. suspensions for arrests. Minimum grade performance. Perfect? no. Head and shoulders over the rest of the NCAA? yes. This is not the time for a Merryl Streepish wail of "what are we doing to the children"

so it boils down to this: If the WORST we can say right now is that he didnt do enuf, when we dont know the scope of what he actually did, we are arguing for what?

A pundit said that he should have made the call to the cops. Yeah, the cops like getting those calls "hey someone who wont call you told me that he saw...."

I am going to reserve judgment until someone in a position to do so, passes judgment.

Figures. Expect none of the pundits or commentators to actually read the timeline from the Grand Jury report, let alone the report.

If the link is half factual, Paterno is about the ONLY one who did anything. There are explicit charges that PA mandated reporters did NOTHING. Including cops in at least 3 jurisdictions. Stretching back about 13 years.

Id expect more arrests.

College sports are trivia and should be treated that way.

yrs,
rubato

So we've heard some derision here for the young people, many college students, protesting as part of OWS.

Then JoePa gets fired - justifiably so - and PSU students take to the streets with violence. To protest the firing of a man whose ethical lapse resulted in the continued abuse of little boys??

I'll take the 'hippie' drum banging anti-banker crowd any day, thanks!

This is not a "sports" story. It is a story about how large institutions maintain a culture of keeping embarrassing problems "in-house," to avoid scandal. Anyone who has lived on a large college campus knows that the campus police often succeed in "handling" reports and complaints of illegal activity (date rape, assaults, public drunkenness) informally, so not to embarrass the university. It is this culture that is exposed by this story. It exists in churches, Boys Clubs and Boy Scouts, school systems, both public and private, and in social agencies and foundations where "help" for children is paramount. Scandal is like kryptonite to these organizations, and it is avoided at all costs.

Jo-Pa and the others who became involved in this whole sordid situation were thinking FIRST about circling the wagons, and only incidentally about fulfilling their legal, moral, and ethical obligations to the victims, the university, and the society at large.

This is not a story about someone having a drinking problem or making inappropriate jokes at a Christmas party. It is about credible accounts of the RAPE OF A CHILD, on campus, by a person who was a longtime personal friend of Paterno and an icon on the Penn State campus (still listed as a professor emeritus of physical education).

I ask you, if you had heard that someone observed your friend of thirty years raping a little girl, do you think your obligations would be fulfilled if you merely reported it to your superior? Would you not do everything necessary to get to the truth of the matter? Call your friend and confront him? Can there be any conceivable doubt that Paterno did this?

Jesus.

Ironically, both Paterno and Sandusky have, in their long lives, done immeasurable good for both the University and the Community at Large, but this is something that is literally unforgivable. Paterno will forever have an asterisk next to his name in sports and academic history books. Pity.

And keep in mind, Sandusky's trial is still coming. How many more abused boys are going to surface in the next year? How many details will come to light about how the administrators at Penn State "handled" this whole episode?

And while the students at Penn State cannot be faulted for wanting to give Coach Paterno the benefit of any doubt, the facts that have already come to light are sufficient to make their demonstrations of the past 48 hours...well, they don't really show these students to have very good judgment.

It's not such a "Happy Valley" right now I suppose.

Just curious, has anyone actually read the GJ report?

a man whose ethical lapse resulted in the continued abuse of little boys

Good evening ladies and gentlemen, and welcome once again to Hyperbole Theater....

EARTH TO BSG:

Paterno DID EVERYTHING HE WAS SUPPOSED TO....

He's THE ONLY ONE WHO DID...

I ask again the question, why isn't the feeding frenzy that is going on here directed at the guy who actually witnessed what took place?

Why is it that people want to jump up and down in righteous indignation beating up on an 82 year old man (who, let me repeat, DID WHAT HE WAS SUPPOSED TO DO)

But the fact that the guy who actually saw this monstrous crime take place and didn't report it to the police is brushed off without comment?

Look, I didn't go to Penn State, I went to UVA.. I don't have any great love for Paterno, beyond the fact that he's been a big name football coach since I was a little kid..

But I don't like seeing a man of Paterno's legacy and reputation, (btw, a large part of why Paterno has been so respected is because he...unlike many "big time" college football coaches, had a deserved reputation for taking the concept of "scholar athlete" seriously and insisted that his players actually get an education...if they weren't serious about their studies, they didn't play for Paterno; championships be damned...It was that reputation for integrity that made him so widely respected.) have that legacy and reputation destroyed, unless there's a damn good reason...

Look, I am NO panty waist on the subject of child abuse. If Paterno had been abusing children, or was involved in covering up the abuse of children, I would want him put away in the nastiest prison cell you could find for him, with the most unpleasant cell mates, to rot till he died, his age and reputation not withstanding...There would be no corner in hell hot enough for him, as far as I would be concerned...

But there's absolutely NO evidence to support either of those charges, and I refuse to join a lynch mob that seems to simply want to go after the best known name attached to a scandal.

I ask again; why isn't there any outrage directed towards the guy who actually saw this taking place?

I imagine because some people see a difference between how an underling should react when they witness wrongdoing by one of their superiors, and how they expect the offender's boss to handle it.

I imagine because some people see a difference between how an underling should react when they witness wrongdoing by one of their superiors, and how they expect the offender's boss to handle it.

Scooter, when this took place in 2002, Paterno was not "the offenders boss".....

This guy had retired as a coach some years earlier...

He didn't work for Paterno when this incident took place...

Apparently, at Penn State, they had a tradition of allowing former coaches to have access to the locker rooms as a matter of courtesy...(Sort of the way former members of Congress are allowed access to the Congressional Cloak Room)

But the bottom line is, there is no way Paterno could have intended to cover this up, given the fact that he reported it....

If he'd wanted to cover it up, he wouldn't have said anything to anybody...

The narrative that says, "well, this was an old friend of Paterno's so he tried to hush it up" is demonstrably false, given the known facts...

The only way that accusation would have merit, is if Paterno knew that the Penn State Athletic Director that he reported this to wouldn't meet his obligations...

And to the best of my knowledge, no one has suggested that...

But if evidence is brought to light proving that happened, I will gladly go to my "no corner in hell hot enough" position, and if you want a lynch mob, I'll be more than happy to participate...

Hell, I'll bring the rope and find the tree...

Should the graduate assistant coach have done more? Yes. But that is besides the point. (And he isn't getting a pass on his limited response).

The point is that Paterno, the A.D., the Vice President, the President all should have done more, a lot more, to deal with this horrendous situation. They knew the specifics of the allegations and there is no shade of gray in them -- they heard an awful story of the worst kind of abuse. In Paterno's case, he did the minimum he was supposed to do. That others did worse doesn't impact that we can judge Paterno based on his response. And clearly he could have done substantially more to prevent a pedophile from abusing children. The Trustees did the right thing by clearing house.

DGs hits the bigger story that hasn't really gotten the notice it should: this "keep it among ourselves" attitude is pervasive on college campuses and has allowed a culture of sexual abuse of all types to exist across the country.

Scooter wrote:I imagine because some people see a difference between how an underling should react when they witness wrongdoing by one of their superiors, and how they expect the offender's boss to handle it.

the offender (Sandusky) was not employed (by nearly 3 years) by PSU and hence paterno. He would have been employed by the AD.

The PA statute on this matter is clear and is referenced in the GJ report (again I ask did anyone read it?) when an employee of an institution witnesses a reportable act, they are to report it to someone in the administration. The football coach is not in the admin. If one reads the GJ report, the ADA was VERY specific in asking the AD and VP if they were in fact part of the admin and exercised such authority to which they replied yes. This cements their place in application of the statute.

the grad student (still an employee of PSU) went to his imemdiate supervisor (at his home) who in turn met with the AD, in his home.

by the letter of the law, the reporting chain was followed. Some pundits have wondered if PAterno watered down the report he gave to the AD - but neither the witness, Paterno or the AD have indicated such in their testimony. Plus, a week later the AD, VP and the witness met in person sans Paterno. All questions as to the depth and detail of the report end at that meeting.

We have to date 3 perps: the actual guy who did it. Does anyone even know his name without me telling you? or what he did/was famous for? I doubt it, the story has hovered around Paterno. He has 40 counts of child sex abuse.

We have 2 admins who are charged under failure to report as per the PA statute, AND 2 counts of perjury as the witness is believed that he gave all the details in the later meeting, and they are not believed when they said he did not. Note, that Paternos name does not appear.

Who is getting ALL of the press? Paterno.
Who is said to be gone in shame? Paterno.

If Paterno is to have his feet to the fire for not wondering what was up and going to the cops with hearsay evidence later,
why is not the grad assistant/witness held to the same standard for not going to the cops with DIRECT evidence? Or how about his father whom he told FIRST, a day earlier and in full detail? His father would have the same credibility as Paterno. Oh thats right, his father is not a nationally known figure.

As I said in my first post with seemingly prescient ability - this country will forgoe the actual sex scandal to see someone high up fall.

It has been nigh time for Paterno to hand over the reigns for a few years now. For football reasons. This is just BS.

And it will come out if the trustees and Corbett (gov) are to be believed - this guy was nailed THRICE and let off. Why?

And to add, in the GJ report, there is referenced a name that has particular significance in that area. Wouldnt it be a hoot if we learn that the threat of exposure of this incident had something to do with the disposition of that name.....

I've tried to look at what i would do in this situation...

And I have to say, the first thing I would want to do if an accusation like this were brought to me, is to be very clear in my own mind, (in a Jethro Gibbs kind of "gut" way) that what I'm being told is likely to be the truth...

It's important to make that sort of assessment; because this kind of accusation will destroy the life of the accused...if the accusation is true, rightly so...but if it isn't true, that person's life will be nearly just as destroyed, particularly if that accusation comes directly from a high profile, well known, well respected person....

So, if I'm that high profile, well known, well respected person who receives this report from a junior member of my staff, I would want to make sure it was properly reported and investigated, but I'm not sure I'd want my name attached to it, because of the horrendous consequences that would attach (simply because of the publicity my name would bring to it) should the accusations prove to be false....

The more I think about it, I do believe Paterno could have, and should have done more. Particularly if Paterno believed the source of the accusation to be credible, (which obviously he must have, or he wouldn't have reported it)

I don't think, based on the strength of the second hand report he was given, that Paterno should have gone directly to the police himself; that would have created a media circus, and again, if the accusations were ultimately proven to be false, a man's life would have been publicly destroyed unfairly....

However, what Paterno should have done, that he apparently did not do, was make very clear to the relevant folks in the hierarchy, that if they did not have this investigated properly, that he would then go public about it.

There is no doubt in my mind that if the the legendary Joe Paterno went to his nominal boss, the pip squeak Athletic Director, (who by the looks of him wasn't even born when Paterno started coaching at Penn State) and said, "I expect you to report this and have it investigated thoroughly" the pip squeak would have done it in a heart beat....

That's where Joe didn't do what Joe should have done...

Paterno was, for many years, the most visible and most powerful person on the Penn State campus. Had any President of the university tried to fire him or force him out, that President would have been terminated.

Paterno is known for his tenacity. In addition to his purely football-related perseverance, he is known to call tutors and professors to make sure that a football player is coming to class, and that papers were turned in, and so forth.

He did not report this in any meaningful way because the Truth would have reflected badly on Joe Paterno and the Football Program. Is it even conceivable that this report of pederasty was not on Paterno's mind for months after he heard it? He must have had nightmares about it. And yet he did nothing to follow up, knowing that a major felony had been committed on campus, and that it was related to his football program because the perpetrator was a long-time, respected coach, closely connected in the public's mind with Paterno himself.

Clearly, the Board of Trustees went through the same thought process when evaluating Paterno's weak response to the credible report of child sexual abuse. They DECIDED NOT TO ALLOW HIM TO RETIRE GRACEFULLY, knowing what he has meant to the University for the past 60 years. That is astounding, and it speaks to how deficient they found his conduct to be. This was not a slap on the hands.

Lord Jim wrote:However, what Paterno should have done, that he apparently did not do, was make very clear to the relevant folks in the hierarchy, that if they did not have this investigated properly, that he would then go public about it.

Isn't that what I said?

Isn't that what I said?

In a more thoughtful, less hyperbolic way, I suppose so....

BSG, my views on this have been "evolving"...

One of the things I was initially concerned about was that the whole thing could have been made up....

That the junior assistant could have been a psycho, that he could have had a grudge against the former coach for some reason, etc. (Things like that do happen; and when you're weighing whether or not you should do something that will destroy another person's life, a prudent and moral person should take those possibilities into consideration)

That having been said, that bar must have been met in Paterno's mind, or he wouldn't have reported it at all...

And once Paterno was convinced in his own mind, (as he must have been, or he wouldn't have reported it) that this could be a credible accusation, he should have done more than he did.

But does that make him a "pedophile protector"?

Absolutely not. It's over the top to accuse him of something like that. It makes him guilty of really poor judgement, but it doesn't put him in that league.

This is not a case of someone who knew for a fact that a person was a child molester, tried to cover it up, and tried to sweep it under the rug. (As sadly, many in my Church did)

This is a case of someone who didn't do everything he should have done; who failed to bring the full weight of his credibility and authority to bear to see to it that others did what they were supposed to do regarding what he clearly saw as a credible accusation of a heinous crime.

That is quite bad enough. One need not exaggerate or inflate his misfeasance to realize that.

I want to be clear that I don't mean to defend McQueary. It is simply reprehensible in my opinion that he saw what he did and did not intervene AT THAT MOMENT. Nothing excuses his lack of action; it's admirable that he talked to his father and then reported the incident to Paterno - but nevertheless his failure to intervene in the moment is incomprehensible & inexcusable and I would fire him, too, if I was in a position to do so.

He saw a child being victimized with his own eyes. He walked away and left the predator to continue his actions. I hope it haunts him always.