Plan B Forum

As I see it they have two main concerns: One, they perceives taxes as too high and want them reduced and two the national debt is out of control and will ruin the country if something is not done about it.

I agree on the national debt; it has be paid down and we have start doing it now. I am not talking about reducing the deficit I am talking about the national debt. We have reached a point where even if we stopped barrowing money the interest on debt alone will drive us into default.

I disagree with the tea party on taxes. In my opinion taxes are the solution to the problem. We have to collect a hug amount of taxes to both pay down the debt and maintain the kind of society that we want to live in; a person injured at work should not be force to live under a bridge and beg for food. Any citizen of the country who is willing to work and study should be able to advanced in society. And even anyone willing to work should make a decent living. In order to do this the government has to stop barrowing money and collect a lot of taxes and some of it has to be set aside to pay down the debt.

Some people think the way raise enough taxes is to stick it to the rich. I think that would be self defeated. You can only tax people so much before they start resisting, look at Greece. What would happen if the wealthy started leaving the country and taking their money with them? Their are a lot of countries the world that would grant citizenship to the wealthy. The rich have to be sold on the idea that higher taxes are needed to save the country. And one way to do that would be to emphasis a shared sacrifice. Every one would pay more taxes even the poor would pay a nominal amount. Also unnecessary federal departments of governments such as education should be eliminated. Education is a state function which the states are capable of handling. The proper functions of education in federal government could be handled by an office. I believe the rich would take on a higher tax burden ( 60 to 70 percent) if they felt it was fair and their money was not being wasted.

So you don’t think the rich would leave the country if the felt they were being victimized. There is a big difference between now and the 1940’s then there was a no place for them to go. For one thing Switzerland was surrounded by the Nazi.

liberty wrote:So you don’t think the rich would leave the country if the felt they were being victimized. There is a big difference between now and the 19940’s then there was a no place for them to go. For one thing Switzerland was surrounded by the Nazi.

The future is here and I am it...

keld feldspar wrote:

liberty wrote:So you don’t think the rich would leave the country if the felt they were being victimized. There is a big difference between now and the 19940’s then there was a no place for them to go. For one thing Switzerland was surrounded by the Nazi.

The future is here and I am it...

Thanks

http://www.npr.org/2011/11/14/142245517 ... rugged-off



Teabagger's Orgasm

Fleabagger's Orgasm....

From the url, Jim...

[Mike]Wallace is in a chair, on a stark set, holding his notes and a cigarette. Across from him sits Rand, a native Russian, small and sharp and a little nervous. Wallace asks her to outline the idea she calls "objectivism."

It is, she says, a system of morality "not based on faith" or emotion, "but on reason."

Rand wholly rejected religion. She called it a weakness, even a parasite — one that convinces people their purpose is to work for the betterment of others. In fact, she says, for man, the truth is just the opposite.

Selfishness is not a virtue.

So you dig, Che

Why not just take everything back to the exact level of government and taxation of several years ago, 2006 maybe.

Or for all of you with Billgasms, if the 90s were so great I'd even agree to 98' levels.

Selfishness is not a virtue.

You don't have to convince me of that Dale....

I'm certainly no Randist....

But envy isn't a virtue either....

I'd like to think that our nation can plot a course somewhere between Ayn Rand and Che Guevara....

We have certainly been able to do so in the past....

It's not like there isn't a lot of room there...

It's not a matter of envy, Jim and claiming it is is simply an attempt at misdirection to avoid the real issues: the distorting effect of money (particularly corporate money) on the political process, and the fair share that the wealthy should pay to help maintain the society that has allowed them to become wealthy. These are serious and wholly legitimate issues that are properly subjects of public debate. So why do you think it is that the shills for the moneyed interests keep trying to marginalize the discussion by claiming it's about something else -- and invariably, something distasteful to middle American sensibilities? It's NOT about "penalizing success," or "envy" or "class warfare" or "socialist revolution." It is about who controls governmental institutions, how, and for whose interests.

What would you call fair?

Me? I'm fine with a 50% top marginal rate on income, eliminating the distinction between capital gains and ordinary income, eliminating most corporate tax subsidies, closing loopholes that allow corporate tax avoidance, eliminating the cap on social security payroll taxes, and a 100% estate tax on amounts in excess $1 million, for starters.

What do you call fair?

eliminating the distinction between capital gains and ordinary income

Capital gains is earnings from money you put ask risk that you had already paid taxes on. Take away the risk if you are going to tax it like ordinary income, pay back losses. Of course that wouldn't be capitalism, but that's my point with your comment, it isn't either.

eliminating most corporate tax subsidies

Agreed, but I would say all. But elliminate all corporate taxes as well. As we know, corps just pass that on in their prices which is just another complication to the tax code and a way for pols to be pols.

closing loopholes that allow corporate tax avoidance

Loopholes are just laws that some people don't like. Aside from that see comment above.

eliminating the cap on social security payroll taxes

Fine as long as you elliminate the cap on benefits too. fair is fair

100% estate tax on amounts in excess $1 million

Nazi

That's rich, lib.

Calling Sue a "NAZI".

I believe she is Jewish?

You're such a card!

I ask you to withdraw that slur Liberty.

I'm fairly certain it was in jest...

I'm sure it was too, and made not in the knowledge of Sue's background.

So a polite man would accept he made an error, one of some potential hurt, and withdraw it unreserved.

Liberty and myself do not agree on many things, but I have no reason to believe he is anything other than a gentleman.

I'm pretty sure he has knowledge of her heritage.

Not everything thing posted is an overt insult...

I would echo that request re Sue...

Her suggestion however:

100% estate tax on amounts in excess $1 million

Is outrageous....a prescription for economic disaster, and a bonanza for large corporations at the expense of small business...

It would, among other things:

1. Wipe out every single remaining family farm in this country within one generation (I'll bet Archer-Daniels would be a big fan)

2. Do the same to a huge percentage of small businesses (Walmart would certainly stand up and applaud)

3.Compel the inheritors of small manufacturing businesses subjected to this confiscation to either fold up shop or sell off to larger businesses at fire sale prices...

4. Throw all the employees of these businesses out of work

5. Make the capital flight from the US we have today look like a trickle compared to the tidal wave that would take place as huge numbers of people scrambled to transfer their assets to countries with less draconian policies....

6. Force people to transfer all of their assets to their children prior to their deaths, leaving them entirely dependent on the goodwill of their kids, (and their spouses) for their well being.

It's difficult to imagine a single more destructive and counter productive policy than this one. It's both economic insanity, and down right immoral.

Keld, true, lets see what Lib has to say when he logs on again eh?