Page 1 of 1

Two Debates Coming Up This Weekend...

Posted: Sat Jan 07, 2012 9:30 pm
by Lord Jim
One tonight on ABC (6PM PST) and tomorrow morning, NBC and MSNBC (jointly sponsored with Facebook; it starts at 6AM out here, so I may opt for the replay, though I seem to get up really early even on the weekends)

With so many candidates for the first time having a good reason to go after Romney, it should be entertaining....

Here's what I think we can expect, and some suggestions I would make:

Romney: If I'm Romney, sitting on a nearly 30 point lead in New Hampshire, I really don't want to get in a pissing match with any of my rivals. If they make charges that have to be answered, I'll answer them, with good humor and try to stay trained on Obama. What I most want to do is look Presidential, and avoid looking petty or thin skinned.

It's going to be a challenge for him, because he's going to take incoming like hasn't had it up to now, and he does have a proclivity for getting testy and petulant when under sustained attack. He needs to fight that impulse.


Paul: I think Paul can be expected to fire off like a rotating garden sprinkler on high speed, lashing out at Romney, Gingrich and Santorum, (he probably won't bother with Perry, unless Perry baits him) with most of his fire aimed at Romney....


Gingrich: No surprise what's going to happen here. Newt's got nothing to lose (which will probably make his performance the most entertaining of the group) and he's made very clear his whole raison darte at this point is to take down Romney. There may be a little part of him that thinks he might still be able to come back, but basically he's Ahab and Romney is Moby Dick.....

Perry: Tough to know for sure what his approach will be. His first objective of course, as it has to be with every debate, is to manage to get through to the end of it without looking like a complete chuckle head. Assuming he meets that bar, since he is essentially skipping New Hampshire to make a last stand in South Carolina, a strong argument can be made that he shouldn't join the Romney bashing, but instead focus primarily on Santorum who has vaulted into the mid 20's in the latest polls in South Carolina. It certainly makes more sense for Perry to focus on trying to pry support away from Santorum rather than Romney.

(BTW, Perry's decision to stay in the race is yet another Godsend for Romney. He should send his campaign a big fat check. Say what you want about Mitt if you look at what's happened in this course of this campaign, he is one lucky sonofabitch... )

Huntsman: It's do or die time for John, (barring a miracle, it's gonna be die) so he will obviously be going all out against Romney. (Though I don't expect Huntsman's "all out" will be any where nearly as entertaining as Gingrich's "all out")

Santorum: Rick has got the toughest job, and the most difficult needle to thread. First of all he has to avoid getting baited into becoming testy and shrill, which like Romney, he also has a proclivity for. He needs to stay on the smiling, good humored, self-confident track. This will be the first time that large numbers of people will be evaluating him as a possible President, and he needs to come across as someone who looks and acts like a person they can see in that role. He has the intellect and the breadth of public policy knowledge to do that and he comes across quite well when avoids the sneering snarky routine....He needs to have the discipline to do this, no matter what brick bracs come his way.

He also needs to be able to avoid giving long answers to questions, particularly on the social issues, that I'm sure the questioners will repeatedly toss at him. Santorum, unlike most politicians, actually tries to give detailed responsive answers to the questions he is asked; while this is a laudable character trait, it's self-destructive at this level of the political game, where things you say will be taken out of context and presented in 30 second or less sound bites by folks who do not bear you any good will. The longer you take answering hostile questions, the more words you are producing to be taken out of context.

He can expect the moderators to try and get him to do what some college kids were able to get him to do earlier this week. He needs to resist this impulse with every fiber of his being. When asked about social issue questions, he should keep his answers general and brief, say that these are things that he believes as part of his faith, and then immediately start talking about he's going to bring good paying manufacturing jobs back to the US.

He needs to try and keep his presentation, not just in these debates, but in general, as close to the kind of message and persona he projected in his speech after the Iowa Caucus, which was probably the best and most connecting address given by any GOP candidate in the field since this campaign began.

Re: Two Debates Coming Up This Weekend...

Posted: Sat Jan 07, 2012 10:26 pm
by Joe Guy
It seems to me that in the long run all of these debates are benefiting Obama more than any republican candidate.

Re: Two Debates Coming Up This Weekend...

Posted: Sat Jan 07, 2012 10:48 pm
by Lord Jim
It seems to me that in the long run all of these debates are benefiting Obama more than any republican candidate.
I disagree Joe...

I think that this intense ongoing vetting process and intramural squabbling is actually benefiting Obama in the short run, but not necessarily strategically....

For example, were it not for the debates, Rick Perry might be running away with the nomination, only to fall on his face in debates with Obama in the general election...

Now, that won't happen...

And numerous other flaws and stumbles that are being revealed and occurring now won't be available to happen next fall....

Whoever the GOP nominee is, (most likely Romney but even if it's Santorum, or anyone else) is going to be thoroughly vetted and far more polished and battle hardened when the time comes to confront Obama directly than they would be if this process were not taking place.

Obama will be facing a much better prepared opponent, with a slimmer chance that any surprises will be unearthed that could work to his advantage, than he would without the prolonged spotlight that these debates have created.

All the Dems who are giggling about how bad they think this process makes the GOP look would do well to bear that in mind.

Re: Two Debates Coming Up This Weekend...

Posted: Sat Jan 07, 2012 11:02 pm
by Scooter
The same thing was being said last time around in reverse, that the slugfest between Obama and Clinton was going to weaken both of them enough that they wouldn't be able to hold up against Bush,* and look at what happened.



*actually, Jim, it was you who was saying that the most, IIRC :nana


ETA - oops, of course I meant "against McCain"...amazing how easy it has become for his candidacy to fade from memory

Re: Two Debates Coming Up This Weekend...

Posted: Sat Jan 07, 2012 11:02 pm
by Joe Guy
Lord Jim wrote:Obama will be facing a much better prepared opponent, with a slimmer chance that any surprises will be unearthed that could work to his advantage, than he would without the prolonged spotlight that these debates have created.

All the Dems who are giggling about how bad they think this process makes the GOP look would do well to bear that in mind.
The problem for the Republican candidates as I see it is that none of them seem to have a large amount of support for their candidacy.

It may result in a better prepared Republican candidate, but not necessarily one that will get a lot of votes.

Re: Two Debates Coming Up This Weekend...

Posted: Sat Jan 07, 2012 11:37 pm
by Lord Jim
The same thing was being said last time around in reverse, that the slugfest between Obama and Clinton was going to weaken both of them enough that they wouldn't be able to hold up against Bush,* and look at what happened.



*actually, Jim, it was you who was saying that the most, IIRC :nana
Well Scooter, if this process were to go on to the point where we were down to two candidates and they were still beating each other up in the late spring with no conclusive result in sight, I'd be very concerned...

At that point, loyalties in the two camps would be very hard, (as they were between the Obama supporters and the Clinton supporters) and the longer the process goes on when you reach that juncture, the more resentments get built up amongst the party activists needed to get the work done in November. (There's no question but that the Reagan Ford fight in '76 and the Carter Kennedy fight in '80 did severe damage to the respective nominees in those races; I believe that in'08 the Demo nomination got settled just short of the point where that kind of damage would have been done.)

The other big negative about a nomination race that goes on that long is that you're wasting a lot of money that otherwise could be directed against the other party.

I believe the process, ugly and messy as it has been, up to this point will prove to be a strategic plus for the GOP. However that having been said, I very much want to see this wrapped up, one way or another by no later than mid March.

Re: Two Debates Coming Up This Weekend...

Posted: Sun Jan 08, 2012 7:49 pm
by dgs49
The R's include at least four excellent candidates in addition to Romney. Trouble is, the are dividing the "conservative" vote among them. If any three of Gingrich, Santorum, Huntsman, and Perry would drop out, the remaining one would be leading Romney. I can't say that Romney is masterminding a divide&conquer strategy, but that's the way it is working out.

Just like '08, the eventual candidate will be one whom less than half of Republicans can support with any enthusiasm.

The debates are becoming stale. Nothing new to be said. If it weren't for a news-hungry media, no one would be paying any attention at all.

Re: Two Debates Coming Up This Weekend...

Posted: Sun Jan 08, 2012 9:32 pm
by Econoline
dgs49 wrote:The debates are becoming stale. Nothing new to be said. If it weren't for a news-hungry media, no one would be paying any attention at all.
Frankly, I think the debates have become a series of unpaid political informercials featuring a laundry list of Republican talking points and general unrestrained Obama-bashing. Fortunately, probably the only people watching them are Republicans. ;)

Re: Two Debates Coming Up This Weekend...

Posted: Sun Jan 08, 2012 10:14 pm
by Lord Jim
The one last night was very disappointing; the one this morning was somewhat more lively, but suffered from the fact that NBC was running a ton of commercial breaks, which had the effect of breaking the energy...

Overall, I think the big winner was Mitt Romney. Nobody really scored effectively against him, (last night, nobody even tried) and he kept his cool. There was nothing that happened in either debate that should have any effect on changing current trend lines.

Re: Two Debates Coming Up This Weekend...

Posted: Tue Jan 10, 2012 4:54 pm
by Lord Jim
It appears that Hunstman has been enjoying some momentum the past couple of days; which leaves me wondering:

Let's say Huntsman does as absolutely well today as the most optimistic scenario for him can invision...

What would mean he finishes a solid second to Romney with a percentage of the vote somewhere in the mid-twenties, to Romney's share in the mid-thirties, and everybody else in the low to mid teens....

What does he do with that? What does he do next?

He sure ain't gonna hotfoot it down to South Carolina, to try and contest in what for him would be a very challenging ideological environment, with only one week before the primary...

I guess he would go straight to Florida and see if he can make an impact there; but he'll have his work cut out for him starting from ground zero in a populous state with expensive media markets only two weeks before the vote....

Re: Two Debates Coming Up This Weekend...

Posted: Tue Jan 10, 2012 5:11 pm
by Liberty1
Overall, I think the big winner was Mitt Romney. Nobody really scored effectively against him, (last night, nobody even tried) and he kept his cool. There was nothing that happened in either debate that should have any effect on changing current trend lines.
I think Donna Brazille summed it up correctly in the post debate discusions.
“Mitt Romney won tonight because no one touched him. And for Democrats, you know what? It was good news for us . . . because we believe that the weakest candidate is the candidate that the Republicans are not attacking.

And that’s Mitt Romney.”

Re: Two Debates Coming Up This Weekend...

Posted: Tue Jan 10, 2012 5:55 pm
by Lord Jim
I think Donna Brazille summed it up correctly in the post debate discusions.
You may think she "summed it up correctly" Lib, but I would say that Donna was spinnin' her tush off....

As a professional party loyalist, I would expect her to say that whoever was doing the best in the GOP field would be the weakest candidate.

The fact is there is absolutely no objective quantifiable yardstick by which one can logically conclude that Romney is the "weakest" opponent Obama could face; none whatsoever. In fact every measurement available indicates exactly the opposite....

And Brazil of course knows this. Which is no doubt why she is trying to telegraph to potential GOP primary voters that the her party would welcome the opportunity to run against him.

Re: Two Debates Coming Up This Weekend...

Posted: Tue Jan 10, 2012 6:20 pm
by Liberty1
I think Romneys front runner status, while simultaneously have the inability to get above 20% support or so, demonstrates his weakness. He is the front runner, primarilly because mainstream conservatives have been split up between other candidates. And he's got plenty of weaknesses.

I believe BO is salivating to run against someone who would largely take away his biggest negative. Obamacare

He's got little government experience (something I like, but you have said before is a negative)
He's got numerous flip-flops on his record and seems to be a typical politician who sticks his finger in the wind before having an opinion.
global warming
abortion
illegal aliens/border control
gay marrraige

I'm not sure if you've seen the video showing his flip flops, but it's worth looking up.

And his plastic personality and presentation doesn't help either

Re: Two Debates Coming Up This Weekend...

Posted: Tue Jan 10, 2012 8:29 pm
by dgs49
Keep in mind that most of the points that Republicans are calling flip-flops are things that can be characterized in a General Election Campaign as a willingness to work with the other side to work out a compromise.

Both Newt and Rick Santorum have similar episodes in their backgrounds, where they have gone along with initiatives that were contrary to either the republican or the conservative stance. Not so sure these sorts of things would be drawbacks to the Independents who will determine who wins the general election. They just have to be packaged properly, which is more difficult in this primary.

Re: Two Debates Coming Up This Weekend...

Posted: Tue Jan 10, 2012 9:46 pm
by Liberty1
I understand comprimise. Hoever, Mitt is on audio record in the add I mentioned stating opposing views on numerous issues.

It's one thing to comprimise, it's another to have no core beliefs.

Re: Two Debates Coming Up This Weekend...

Posted: Tue Jan 10, 2012 9:49 pm
by Scooter
But if he turns out to be the nominee you'll vote for him just the same.

Re: Two Debates Coming Up This Weekend...

Posted: Tue Jan 10, 2012 9:58 pm
by Liberty1
Absolutely. He's at least a capitalist, that I do know

Re: Two Debates Coming Up This Weekend...

Posted: Fri Jan 20, 2012 9:33 pm
by Liberty1
Image
Image
Image
Image