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Republicans lie all the time about everything.deficit editio

Posted: Fri Feb 24, 2012 2:13 am
by rubato
Republicans lie all the time about everything ... deficit edition.


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http://www.theatlantic.com/business/pri ... bt/253501/

The Big Deficit Lie: Every GOP Debt Plan Leaves Us With More Debt
By Derek Thompson

Each Republican candidate says he cares about the deficit. And each candidate's plan raises the deficit. Are they all bad at math, or do they just not care enough to do it right?

The four remaining GOP candidates have a simple and straightforward plan for the direction of our federal debt. Up. Way up.

That's the conclusion from a new report comparing the tax-and-spending plans from Newt Gingrich, Mitt Romney, Ron Paul, and Rick Santorum, from the Committee for a Responsible Federal Budget.

Today, public debt is equal to about 70% of our economy. If Congress allowed current law to play itself out, the Bush tax cuts would expire and that number would fall to about 60%, according to various estimates. That's pretty stable. But nobody wants the "current law" scenario to play out. Not Congress, not the Senate, not the White House, and certainly not the Republican field. So we need another plan. Problem is, most of the other plans don't get us anywhere near stability. In fact, the GOP plans would raise our debt burden to anywhere between 67% and a whopping 126% of the economy by 2021, according to CRFB.

This graph compares the moderate estimates for each candidates' debt plan against the president's. This is all smart guesswork, mind you, but it offers a nonpartisan view of the sort of "deficit reduction" we're really getting under these proposals. This Y-axis starts at 60, which is the target debt/GDP ratio for CRFB.



Okay, so beating 60% is too hard. Let's move the limbo bar up a notch. CRFB also calculates its own "realistic baseline." This sounds complicated, but it's the deficit reducer's equivalent of Beginner's Level. This baseline assumes that the Bush tax cuts are extended, some scheduled spending cuts are ignored, and Congress upholds its proud tradition of pushing off hard decisions while it pushes up our debt burden. Sounds reasonable and easy to beat with a few smart cuts and tax changes. But even playing the game on Beginner, every GOP candidate that has ever led a national poll loses the game. Only Ron Paul wins, with a whopping $7.5 trillion in spending cuts.

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According to White House projections, the president's budget (red in the graph below) wins the deficit reduction game (on Beginner's Level, at least). The reason is all in the taxes. Each of the GOP candidates cut taxes dramatically and can't find adequate savings, while the president proposes $1.5 trillion in tax increases concentrated on the richest 2%.

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Let me anticipate some of your objections. First, the White House relies on optimistic growth numbers that might not play out. Slower growth would lead to higher deficits, because tax revenue wouldn't keep up with mandatory spending. Second, this is all guess work, and there's more than one way to guess. Conservative economists who support tax cuts might want to sell you on "dynamic scoring," which presumes that tax cuts lead to growth, which makes us richer, which increases tax revenue. This is the "tax cuts pay for themselves" argument, and it might be true in the future, but it has a spotty record in the past. Effective and marginal tax rates have fallen for the last 30 years, and growth since 2000 hasn't been so hot.

These plans don't accidentally raise the deficit. They just don't care about the deficit. Deficit reduction isn't hard to do, arithmetically. You raise taxes over time. You control discretionary spending. You clear the way for health care cost innovation while introducing policies that will limit health care in the future. It's not rocket science, it's math. The hard stuff is getting Congress to agree to your math. But how is that supposed to happen if pols refuse to do even the basic addition and subtraction when it's just them and a blank sheet of paper? What does it say about a party that believes "deficit reduction" is a worthy phrase, but not a worthy goal? And what does it say about our political system, and the GOP candidates in particular, that we're normalized to the idea that politicians offer debt-reduction plans that can't even live up to their name?

This article available online at:

http://www.theatlantic.com/business/arc ... bt/253501/

Re: Republicans lie all the time about everything.deficit ed

Posted: Fri Feb 24, 2012 2:14 am
by rubato
How stupid do you have to be to vote for any of these idiots?

yrs,
rubato

Re: Republicans lie all the time about everything.deficit ed

Posted: Fri Feb 24, 2012 3:34 pm
by dgs49
Did you just post a comment to your own posting?

As with everything you post, there are grotesque flaws in logic and subtle bits of misinformation.

Take for example, "This is the "tax cuts pay for themselves" argument, and it might be true in the future, but it has a spotty record in the past." While it's true that intelligent tax cuts have not always reduced deficits, they have just about always increased revenues. The problem has been that Congress increases spending beyond the increases in revenues, so that the deficits increase anyway. Note the expression often used on this Board: "Reagan deficits."

The view from 10,000 feet is not difficult to discern. The Democrats have conducted a relentless campaign for the past 50 years to expand the power and scope of the Federal Government, and to make as many people as possible beholden to government programs sponsored by Democrat politicians. Thus, they hope to ensure their perpetual grip on political power. This programme is not generally conducive to fiscal restraint. In fact, the opposite is true.

The only bit of history that gives D's any credibility on the issue at all is the relative prosperity and the balanced budget during the latter Clinton years. But a closer look reveals that Clinton was not only not responsible for this surge, but it caught his administration completely by surprise. Prior to the Republican takeover in Congress, his budgets were projecting (now laughable) deficits of $250B/yr FOREVER. The added revenues (one might call them the "Gingrich Revenues") had nothing to do with Clinton's policies or actions.

Democrats are spendthrifts. You can produce all the fucking graphs and words and music in the world, but that fact remains constant and immutable. Even now, three years into the Great Recession, and the Democrats have not suggested a single initiative to reduce entitlement spending, while even they cannot deny that this is the ONLY thing that can bring the budget under any semblance of control. Yes, that's Dem fiscal "leadership" in action.

God help us.

Re: Republicans lie all the time about everything.deficit ed

Posted: Fri Feb 24, 2012 3:36 pm
by dgs49
What kind of a demented personality continually refers to people who disagree with him as "stupid," or "liars"? Even when those people (as is usually the case) are more educated, more accomplished, and more successful than he is, by any measure.

What kind of person?

Just askin'?

Re: Republicans lie all the time about everything.deficit ed

Posted: Fri Feb 24, 2012 4:10 pm
by Lord Jim
What kind of a demented personality continually refers to people who disagree with him as "stupid," or "liars"? Even when those people (as is usually the case) are more educated, more accomplished, and more successful than he is, by any measure.

What kind of person?
That's easy...

A hopeless boor, completely bereft of effective interaction skills, who suffers from profound insecurity about the quality of his own intellect...

Honestly Dave, I don't know why you respond to these blatantly trolling threads of his. I don't know if you've noticed, but almost nobody else here does...(left right or center)

This is why when he starts one of these you'll frequently see him engaging in a one man circle jerk, posting multiple replies for no other purpose than to try to keep his useless thread near the top of the page.

These threads are obviously not designed to stimulate any sort of honest debate. They're nothing but spleen venting attempts to jerk chains....

And he certainly seems to have a tight grip on yours...

You really should stop giving him the satisfaction and just ignore this crap.

Re: Republicans lie all the time about everything.deficit ed

Posted: Fri Feb 24, 2012 8:21 pm
by dgs49
Jimmy, I'm hopelessly bored at work, and I just respond because I have nothing better to do.

They won't let me take naps or practice for Karaoke.

Re: Republicans lie all the time about everything.deficit ed

Posted: Sat Feb 25, 2012 2:03 am
by Grim Reaper
dgs49 wrote:What kind of a demented personality continually refers to people who disagree with him as "stupid," or "liars"? Even when those people (as is usually the case) are more educated, more accomplished, and more successful than he is, by any measure.
Uh, you seem quite fond of calling people who disagree with you "idiots" or "stupid".

Just sayin'.
Lord Jim wrote:These threads are obviously not designed to stimulate any sort of honest debate. They're nothing but spleen venting attempts to jerk chains....
I'm sure dgs49 has noticed, he makes enough of them himself. Just look at homophobic thread from a couple weeks ago where he dropped a load of nonsense and never looked back.

Re: Republicans lie all the time about everything.deficit ed

Posted: Sat Feb 25, 2012 8:12 am
by liberty
Grim Reaper wrote:
dgs49 wrote:. Just look at homophobic thread .
I am not trying to highjack this thread, but I feel compelled to make this observation: I don’t understand why some straight men would have problem with another man’s homosexuality. If a man is gay doesn’t mean that there is potentially one more woman available for the straight man?

Re: Republicans lie all the time about everything.deficit ed

Posted: Sat Feb 25, 2012 3:46 pm
by Lord Jim
If a man is gay doesn’t mean that there is potentially one more woman available for the straight man
I have to tell you, that personally I miss the really great straight men...

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Re: Republicans lie all the time about everything.deficit ed

Posted: Sat Feb 25, 2012 8:04 pm
by rubato
The only way to reconcile the scope, exuberance and near-continuous nature of lying by the Republican 'leadership' is to accept that they have complete contempt for their own voters and their own party.

Newtie lies again!

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/2 ... ?ref=fpblg
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Josh Marshall February 23, 2012, 12:12 PM 14331

When I was watching the debate last night I did a double-take when I heard Newt say that ‘reforming’ the federal Civil Service system could save “a minimum of $500 billion a year.”

That sounded pretty crazy to me since that’s like 15% of the entire federal government. And the vast majority of federal spending goes to the military and transfer payments like Social Security and Medicare.

Well, we looked into it and it turns out that the federal government’s entire payroll, even including the military, came to just $432.6 billion in fiscal 2011. In other words, if you fired everyone who works for the federal government you couldn’t save $500 billion.

Our requests for comment from the Newt campaign have yet to be returned.
_____________________________

yrs,
rubato

Re: Republicans lie all the time about everything.deficit ed

Posted: Sat Feb 25, 2012 8:13 pm
by rubato
dgs49 wrote:"...

Take for example, "This is the "tax cuts pay for themselves" argument, and it might be true in the future, but it has a spotty record in the past." While it's true that intelligent tax cuts have not always reduced deficits, they have just about always increased revenues. The problem has been that Congress increases spending beyond the increases in revenues, so that the deficits increase anyway. Note the expression often used on this Board: "Reagan deficits."
... " .
The "Tax cuts pay for themselves" argument has never worked. Ever. Both Glen Hubbard and Greg Mankiw have both said so. At the very most optimistic (and Glen Hubbard plays for Team Republican) Hubbard said that in the LONG run at MOST a $1.00 tax cut will increase revenue by $0.26. A net revenue loss of $0.74.

Bad math.

yrs,
rubato

Re: Republicans lie all the time about everything.deficit ed

Posted: Sat Feb 25, 2012 8:20 pm
by Gob
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Re: Republicans lie all the time about everything.deficit ed

Posted: Sat Feb 25, 2012 8:52 pm
by rubato
Nothing to do with the topic at hand but about par for Bog-boy. More noise, less sense.


yrs,
rubato