When did flagrent lying become acceptable? It's one thing to shade and hedge your positions, a little extra nuance here and there, but before McCain's total self-demasculation this level of lying would not have got the nomination.
http://thinkprogress.org/politics/2012/ ... ?mobile=nc
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Yes, Mitt Romney Is Running a Con on Somebody… We're Not Sure Who, But Somebody...
Alex Seitz-Wald
Top Romney Adviser: Don't Worry, He'll Flip-Flop On Everything Soon: [Eric Fehrnstrom says] the candidate [has] a “reset button” on any positions he’s taken during the primary campaign if he wins the nominations and faces off against President Obama in the fall. Appearing on CNN this morning, Romney Communications Director Eric Fehrnstrom was asked if he’s concerned that Romney may alienate general election voters with some of the hard-right positions he’s taken during the primary to appeal to conservatives. Fehrnstrom brushed this concern off:
HOST: Is there a concern that Santorum and Gingrich might force the governor to tack so far to the right it would hurt him with moderate voters in the general election.
FEHRNSTROM: Well, I think you hit a reset button for the fall campaign. Everything changes. It’s almost like an Etch A Sketch. You can kind of shake it up and restart all of over again.
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yrs,
rubato
It's like an etch-a-sketch
Re: It's like an etch-a-sketch
So none of this actually bothers Republicans?
Really.
I had not expected naked self-conscious immorality. Revealing.
yrs,
rubato
Really.
I had not expected naked self-conscious immorality. Revealing.
yrs,
rubato
Re: It's like an etch-a-sketch
However, for the company that makes etch-a-sketch, it was all good news!
Shares in the company that makes Etch A Sketch have tripled in value, a day after the humble toy was thrust into the centre of US politics.
The Ohio Art Company, which makes the children's iconic drawing device, saw its shares increase as much as 213 per cent on Thursday after a key aide to Republican presidential candidate Mitt Romney made an ill-thought reference to the toy.
http://www.smh.com.au/world/etch-a-sket ... 1vnjy.html
Bah!
Re: It's like an etch-a-sketch
I'm surprised more people don't care about this. I can't recall the kind of systematic lying which began with Newtie Gingrich and was brought to full-force in the Bush WH being the norm for the Republican party. Do people not know how harmful this is, to themselves?
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/03/23/opini ... .html?_r=1
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"...
If and when he wins the nomination, Mr. Romney will try, as a hapless adviser put it, to shake his Etch A Sketch — that is, to erase the record of his pandering to the crazy right and convince voters that he’s actually a moderate. And maybe he can pull it off.
But let’s hope that he can’t, because the kind of pandering he has engaged in during his quest for the nomination matters. Whatever Mr. Romney may personally believe, the fact is that by endorsing the right’s paranoid fantasies, he is helping to further a dangerous trend in America’s political life. And he should be held accountable for his actions. ... "
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yrs,
rubato
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/03/23/opini ... .html?_r=1
___________________________
"...
If and when he wins the nomination, Mr. Romney will try, as a hapless adviser put it, to shake his Etch A Sketch — that is, to erase the record of his pandering to the crazy right and convince voters that he’s actually a moderate. And maybe he can pull it off.
But let’s hope that he can’t, because the kind of pandering he has engaged in during his quest for the nomination matters. Whatever Mr. Romney may personally believe, the fact is that by endorsing the right’s paranoid fantasies, he is helping to further a dangerous trend in America’s political life. And he should be held accountable for his actions. ... "
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yrs,
rubato
Re: It's like an etch-a-sketch
Anyone who actually has an IQ above the double-digit territory realizes that BOTH major parties are hardly above reproach.
Again......neither democrat nor republican will get my vote this Nov.
Wake Up America....YOU'RE TAKING IT IN THE SHORTS WITHOUT EVEN REALIZING IT!
Again......neither democrat nor republican will get my vote this Nov.
Wake Up America....YOU'RE TAKING IT IN THE SHORTS WITHOUT EVEN REALIZING IT!
Your collective inability to acknowledge this obvious truth makes you all look like fools.
yrs,
rubato
Re: It's like an etch-a-sketch
What, exactly, is wrong with what was said, and with the practice itself.
When you are speaking to a narrow group and currying their favor, you focus on the specific interests and desires of that group. When you are speaking to a broader, more diverse group, you focus on the specific interests and desires of the larger group.
EVERYONE who is not an idiot understands this. Whether you are a schoolchild speaking to classmates, then going home to speak with parents, or a salesman first speaking to engineers & technicians, then moving on to speak to the general management of the customer company. Different audiences have different concerns.
Does anybody remember Barry being quoted in the last election cycle speaking to a group of financial supporters in California and talking about how rural Pennsylvanians cling to religion and their guns? Was he being unethical? Was he lying? No. He was appropriately tailoring his remarks to suit the audience. Like every other politician.
rubato's perpetual adolescence is again in focus in this thread.
When you are speaking to a narrow group and currying their favor, you focus on the specific interests and desires of that group. When you are speaking to a broader, more diverse group, you focus on the specific interests and desires of the larger group.
EVERYONE who is not an idiot understands this. Whether you are a schoolchild speaking to classmates, then going home to speak with parents, or a salesman first speaking to engineers & technicians, then moving on to speak to the general management of the customer company. Different audiences have different concerns.
Does anybody remember Barry being quoted in the last election cycle speaking to a group of financial supporters in California and talking about how rural Pennsylvanians cling to religion and their guns? Was he being unethical? Was he lying? No. He was appropriately tailoring his remarks to suit the audience. Like every other politician.
rubato's perpetual adolescence is again in focus in this thread.
-
Grim Reaper
- Posts: 944
- Joined: Mon Apr 19, 2010 1:21 pm
Re: It's like an etch-a-sketch
What's wrong? He's lying in order to get votes. That should be amazingly obvious.
Re: It's like an etch-a-sketch
There's a difference between wording something poorly and outright saying two different things. Obamas religion and guns comment is more on par with Santorums "unemployment doesn't matter to me" a statement poorly made versus saying something you don't believe.
Lies are lies
Gaffes are mistakes and only truly matter if the opposition makes enough hay out of them orenough are made to lead one to believe that it is a slip revealing a true agenda.
Though I suppose you could make the argument that Romneys aide was being honest about lying.
Lies are lies
Gaffes are mistakes and only truly matter if the opposition makes enough hay out of them orenough are made to lead one to believe that it is a slip revealing a true agenda.
Though I suppose you could make the argument that Romneys aide was being honest about lying.
Okay... There's all kinds of things wrong with what you just said.
Re: It's like an etch-a-sketch
It's bad enough when you have to say, "What the candidate meant to say was....."
It's even worse when you have to say, "What the candidate's aide meant to say was...."
The point I'm sure he was trying to make is exactly the same one that every political pundit of every political stripe has made at one time or another about the GOP nominee, no matter who that nominee is; namely that after the convention, the nominee will have an opportunity to re-introduce and re-define themselves to a broader electorate that will for the first time be paying attention. Chuck Todd referred to it as a "re-set"; this is widely known to be true, and there's really nothing sneaky or dishonest about it.
But of course, that's not how Romney's aide made it sound and it's not how his opponents (both political and in the media) are making it sound....
BTW, I really think that Obama will be making a mistake if he tries to run against Romney as a "flip-flopper"; the temptation to do it may be strong because of the success Bush had with it against Kerry, but if I were advising him I'd tell him to avoid it, for a couple of reasons.
First, one of the reasons Bush was successful with that strategy was because it provided a stark contrast; one thing you could not accuse George W. Bush of being, (at least at the time of the 2004 election) was a "flip flopper" indeed, one of Bush's greatest weaknesses turned out to be the way he would stubbornly stick to a course of action, long after it was apparent that it wasn't working.
Obama, on the other hand has his own long record of flip-flops; he's almost as vulnerable on the issue as Romney is, and if he makes that a focus of his criticism of Romney, he invites an examination of his own record on that score.
Second, going after Romney on flip-flopping undermines what should be his strongest campaign point; trying to convince voters that if Romney is elected, he will actually seek to put into practice some of the more right-wing positions he's been compelled to take in the primary campaign. The Obama campaign should be trying to get voters to take that stuff seriously, and identify it with Romney...claiming that he's wishy washy and says thing he doesn't mean, and easily changes his positions runs counter to the strategy of trying to portray him as "dangerously right-wing"....
It's even worse when you have to say, "What the candidate's aide meant to say was...."
The point I'm sure he was trying to make is exactly the same one that every political pundit of every political stripe has made at one time or another about the GOP nominee, no matter who that nominee is; namely that after the convention, the nominee will have an opportunity to re-introduce and re-define themselves to a broader electorate that will for the first time be paying attention. Chuck Todd referred to it as a "re-set"; this is widely known to be true, and there's really nothing sneaky or dishonest about it.
But of course, that's not how Romney's aide made it sound and it's not how his opponents (both political and in the media) are making it sound....
BTW, I really think that Obama will be making a mistake if he tries to run against Romney as a "flip-flopper"; the temptation to do it may be strong because of the success Bush had with it against Kerry, but if I were advising him I'd tell him to avoid it, for a couple of reasons.
First, one of the reasons Bush was successful with that strategy was because it provided a stark contrast; one thing you could not accuse George W. Bush of being, (at least at the time of the 2004 election) was a "flip flopper" indeed, one of Bush's greatest weaknesses turned out to be the way he would stubbornly stick to a course of action, long after it was apparent that it wasn't working.
Obama, on the other hand has his own long record of flip-flops; he's almost as vulnerable on the issue as Romney is, and if he makes that a focus of his criticism of Romney, he invites an examination of his own record on that score.
Second, going after Romney on flip-flopping undermines what should be his strongest campaign point; trying to convince voters that if Romney is elected, he will actually seek to put into practice some of the more right-wing positions he's been compelled to take in the primary campaign. The Obama campaign should be trying to get voters to take that stuff seriously, and identify it with Romney...claiming that he's wishy washy and says thing he doesn't mean, and easily changes his positions runs counter to the strategy of trying to portray him as "dangerously right-wing"....
