Arrest the pope!

[Gob]

RICHARD DAWKINS, the atheist campaigner, is planning a legal ambush to have the Pope arrested during his state visit to Britain “for crimes against humanity”.

Dawkins and Christopher Hitchens, the atheist author, have asked human rights lawyers to produce a case for charging Pope Benedict XVI over his alleged cover-up of sexual abuse in the Catholic church.

The pair believe they can exploit the same legal principle used to arrest Augusto Pinochet, the late Chilean dictator, when he visited Britain in 1998.

The Pope was embroiled in new controversy this weekend over a letter he signed arguing that the “good of the universal church” should be considered against the defrocking of an American priest who committed sex offences against two boys. It was dated 1985, when he was in charge of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, which deals with sex abuse cases.

Benedict will be in Britain between September 16 and 19, visiting London, Glasgow and Coventry, where he will beatify Cardinal John Henry Newman, the 19th-century theologian.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/commen ... 094310.ece

Sounds like something out of Monty Python!!

[Sean]

I can see it now...

"NOBODY expects the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith!"

Maybe needs some tweaking...

[Gob]

Dawkins: I'll tell you what you want, mate! You want a bloody lawyer! That's you want. Not a bloody creative athiest to crease you up...

Pope: I'll tell you what I want! I want a last supper with one Christ, twelve disciples, lots of lovely choirboys, no sex abuse scandals, no kangaroos, no trampoline acts, by Thursday lunch, or you don't get paid!

Dawkins: Bloody fascist!

Pope: Look! I'm the bloody pope, I am! May not know much about laws, but I know what I like!

[The Hen]

To a jaunty tune.

Prance in ....

Smack Sean and Gob across the face with a large fish ....

Prance out.

[Gob]

Another one is having a go at suing the pope, this time in the US..

US sex abuse lawsuit names Pope


By Simon Cox
BBC News

A man who says he was the victim of an American paedophile priest is bringing a lawsuit against the Pope and the Vatican in a US federal court.

His lawyers want the Church to release any files it has on abuse cases involving priests.

The alleged victim, whose identity has not been disclosed, says he was abused by the late Father Lawrence Murphy.

Fr Murphy is accused of attacking up to 200 children during his 20 years at a school for deaf children in Milwaukee.

He was finally moved from the St John school to another diocese in 1974, but was never prosecuted or defrocked.

A Church trial was opened after the Vatican received a letter from Fr Murphy's bishop in 1996, but it was not concluded by the time Fr Murphy died in 1998.

The alleged victim's lawyer, Jeff Anderson, says the Vatican has been negligent. "What we want the Vatican to do is step up to disgorge the secrets that they have in their files," he told the BBC.

'Horror'

The victim wrote to the then-Vatican Secretary of State Angelo Sodano in 1995 asking the Pope to excommunicate Fr Murphy. The BBC has seen copies of the documents submitted to the court.

They include a seven-page letter to Fr Murphy graphically describing the alleged abuse and the effect it had on him.

"Do you know that you really ruined my life?" he writes.

The writer also says one boy abused by Fr Murphy later committed suicide. "God must punish you and send you to hell to stay forever," he adds.

The plaintiff says the Vatican did not reply to his letter, or to a another one sent several months later.

The fact that the alleged abuse was linked to the confessional meant the case should have been referred to the Church's Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith (CDF). At the time this body was run by Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger, now Pope Benedict XVI.

The CDF says the first it knew about the Murphy case was in 1996.

The lawsuit names the Pope and two cardinals.

Mr Anderson says his client is not seeking money but wants the Church "to fundamentally come clean, to come forth with all documents that have evidence of crimes against children for decades".

He adds: "Until and unless all of those things are done, there is a grave and serious problem, and all trails and responsibility for that leads to one place, to the Vatican, to the pontiff."

The Vatican has not responded to the lawsuit so far. In an earlier interview the Pope's spokesman, Fr Federico Lombardi, told the BBC that Benedict XVI had taken a clear line of transparency.

Last month a Vatican newspaper editorial said media claims that the future Pope had failed to act against Fr Murphy were "ignoble", and that there had been no cover-up.

There has been a wave of allegations that Church authorities in Europe and North and South America failed to deal properly with priests accused of paedophilia, sometimes just moving them to new parishes where more children were put at risk.

Story from BBC NEWS:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/go/pr/fr/-/2/hi/e ... 638798.stm

[Andrew D]

All of this is long overdue. Of course the pope should be arrested; he runs a criminal enterprise. The Vatican should just be taken. Every single thing "owned" by the Roman Catholic Church actually belongs to (a) the victims of the Roman Catholic Church's crimes and (b) humanity in general. The Roman Catholic Church should not be allowed to retain any of it. Roman Catholic priests take vows of poverty; it's long past time to make them put their money where their mouths are.

[Gob]

Father Dougal McGuire: I've never met a celebrity before.
Father Ted Crilly: You met the Pope.
Father Dougal McGuire: Did I?
Father Ted Crilly: Yes, do you not remember that time we were in Rome?
Father Dougal McGuire: That was the Pope? That old fella living in the art gallery?
Father Ted Crilly: The Vatican, Dougal! The Vatican!
Father Dougal McGuire: Still, he's not a celebrity in the true sense of the word.
Father Ted Crilly: He's God's representative on Earth, Dougal!
Father Dougal McGuire: You'd think he'd be taller.
Father Ted Crilly: You mean like a giant?

[Gilead]

I see a new legal defense for pediphiles coming from this... Religious Persecution

"Well you see Your Honor, I was just following the teachings of my church. I learned from the time I was a wee lad that I should put my thing up the bottoms of children. I'm hoping to be the Pope one day."

[Miles]

One word, RICO, that should cover it all.

[The Hen]

I was only pondering earlier today on what treasures you could find in the Vatican Vaults.

[Big RR]

All of this is long overdue. Of course the pope should be arrested; he runs a criminal enterprise. The Vatican should just be taken. Every single thing "owned" by the Roman Catholic Church actually belongs to (a) the victims of the Roman Catholic Church's crimes and (b) humanity in general. The Roman Catholic Church should not be allowed to retain any of it. Roman Catholic priests take vows of poverty; it's long past time to make them put their money where their mouths are.

Andrew, are there any large instituions which this could not be said about? I doubt it. I'm no fan of the RC church, but they're pretty much like any other business.

As for priests taking vows of poverty, this is not a requirement in the US (not sure of the rest of the world), at least for diocesan priests (some religious orders may require it). I know a few priests who own houses, summer houses, etc. Most draw a salary, have health insurance, and will draw a pension on retirement. Indeed, looking how the church has abandoned some of its nuns and other moastic clergy, I think most preists (and nuns, brothers, etc.) realize they will probably have to provide for themselves when they are no longer "useful" to the business. Most don't make all that much money (this is true of most clergy), but they are not destitute.

[Andrew D]

But who actually owns the stuff? I have known some priests who have lived quite high on the hog. But the trick to it was that they didn't actually own the homes, cars, etc. The Church -- Roman Catholic, Anglican, Ukrainian Orthodox, whatever -- owned all the stuff. That way, the priests could enjoy the benefits of affluence while not technically breaking their vows of poverty.

And the RCC is not like any other business. Most businesses do not have a majority of their upper-echelon officials engaged in conspiracies to cover up crimes against children. Most businesses have not orchestrated genocides. Etc.

[Big RR]

Point taken Andrew, many clergy do live well using property not owned by them. my only point was that many, if not most, RC priests (in the US at least) do not take vows of poverty.

As for other bsuinesses, while I agree that they usully don't try to cover up child abuse, many have enngaged in orchestrated genocide against idnigenous people, using them as slaves to work their mines, farms, or whatever and exacting serious revenge against any who would stand up to them. True they often did this through puppet governments, but then so did the RC church rely on armies of friendly coutnries to advance their purposes.

[@meric@nwom@n]

If someone were to show up to arrest the Pope, would the Popemobile make a fast getaway?

[Big RR]

As an aside, can the sitting and legal head of state of another country be legally arrested under internaitonal law or under the laws of most countries? I think most western countries recognize the Vatican as an independent country (alhough I don't know why), but would this make the pope legally exempt from arrest?

[@meric@nwom@n]

Diplomatic immunity elsewhere?

[Long Run]

The problem with taking the assets, is that they are also being taken away from the innocent 99% of church goers and vast majority of priests, nuns, etc. I don't know the right answer, but the criminal courts can go after the actual wrongdoers. That may or may not include the Pope; I haven't seen enough evidence yet that he aided in the crimes.

[Andrew D]

Most of what is in the Vatican is never seen by "the innocent 99% of church goers". The contents of the Vatican belong to all of us. They have been stolen, and we should take them back.

[Miles]

Again RICO.

[Gob]

Ok, does Rico work at the Vatican or something?