Plan B Forum

When being cowed by fear makes a liberal democracy into an armed camp. "We need security" and "We need law and order" was always the excuse for use of force against civilians in the US, and gave us the Kent State murders et al.:

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http://sports.yahoo.com/news/olympics-- ... ouths.html






yrs,
rubato

I'm not sure why you consider this a "sad day." Remember Munich?

Any successful terrorist attack will bring a mountain of shit down on London and England, and unless you assume that any would-be terrorists will be wearing ID armbands, the countermeasures will have to be substantial.

The commercial stuff (no Pepsi) is rather nauseating, but it's the world we live in.

I was happy to note that this has been the coldest and wettest Summer in England in two centuries. I was beginning to believe that Global Warming crap. Too bad we can't export some of this damnable heat.

1996: Bomb rocks Atlanta Olympics

A bomb has exploded at a crowded concert in Atlanta, Georgia, the city hosting this year's Olympic Games.

Two people are reported to have been killed and firefighting officials say as many as 200 people may have been injured.

The explosion happened at 0125 local time during a rock concert in the Centennial Olympic Park.

Three months ago, the Atlanta Olympic Committee transformed the 21-acre site from an unused area of slums and old warehouses into a popular entertainment venue.

It has attracted an estimated 100,000 people day and night who gather to hear music, watch concerts and contests on giant screens or buy souvenirs.

A band called Jack Mack and the Heart Attack had just finished playing a song when the bomb went off near a sound tower.

Warning came too late

After the blast, the area was immediately surrounded by police and cordoned off.

The nearby press centre was closed because guards feared another explosion.

Eyewitnesses described a scene of chaos and carnage. People lay on the ground with head and other injuries as police tried to clear the area.

The police say they received a phone call warning of the bomb and describing its location but it was too late to evacuate the park. They did, however, manage to clear the immediate vicinity.

It is reported the caller's voice had the characteristics of a white American male.

Security at the Games - already billed by the authorities as the largest peacetime security operation for a public event in American history - has been stepped up with extra bag searches and regular sweeps for explosives.

Of course with this event being pre-9/11, one can only wonder what extremes the US would go to now if hosting the Olympics? We all recognise that since 9/11 the US has been a nation cowed by fear, a liberal democracy turned into an armed camp.

We all recognise that since 9/11 the US has been a nation cowed by fear, a liberal democracy turned into an armed camp.

Actually, I have a fear of cows and a cramped arm....

Gob wrote:

1996: Bomb rocks Atlanta Olympics
... "

Of course with this event being pre-9/11, one can only wonder what extremes the US would go to now if hosting the Olympics? We all recognise that since 9/11 the US has been a nation cowed by fear, a liberal democracy turned into an armed camp.

The Atlanta Olympic bombing was carried out by a right-wing anti-abortion nutcase named Eric Robert Rudolph. I cannot see rational people deploying surface to air missile batteries to thwart such.

And in any case the OP was written in a manner deliberately inclusive of all liberal democracies and did not mention the particular one involved here; I had thought this would be perceived by all persons smarter than dirt clods, but apparently I was wrong. I am sorry that we, meaning us, meaning the liberal democracies are doing stupid things like this. Cowards will never know freedom.


yrs,
rubato

Ah, another retard use of the "Royal we",.

"Cowards will never know freedom", states the most cowardly person on the board, very accurately.

rubato wrote:
The Atlanta Olympic bombing was carried out by a right-wing anti-abortion nutcase named Eric Robert Rudolph. I cannot see rational people deploying surface to air missile batteries to thwart such.

I do not see the point in denying that fundamentalists will use many and varied means to attack and destroy large gatherings, and that to not prepare for the worse possibility would be very stupid. I believe there was an incident where such people used jet planes flown into buildings in such an act.

rubato wrote: And in any case the OP was written in a manner deliberately inclusive of all liberal democracies and did not mention the particular one involved here

That's funny, or maybe not. Your ability to use coherent English has always been shaky to say the least.

Let's see now;

This is a sad day.


(image of London)
When being cowed by fear makes a liberal democracy into an armed camp.

Then you link to an article which states;

LONDON – Olympic organizers and the British government have been warned they face a public relations nightmare amid charges that the security measures for the 2012 Games constitute a flagrant disregard of basic civil rights

So to claim that your OP referred to "all liberal democracies", is either an out and out lie, or a prime example of poor English.

You decide.


(Sometimes it's like shooting fish in a barrel.)

What a pair of pure jackasses.

What I wrote was written generally to refer generally. The particular story which was linked was necessarily about a particular story in one place. It was presented as a 'sad example' of something happening to liberal democracies.

Most people are capable of understanding that difference. But you have shown often that you will interpret a neutral comment in exotic ways just to have an excuse for your bile seeing it again is no surprise, is it?

When we were in Paris there were armed paratroops around the Eiffel Tower and security checks to get into the museums and to get into Colville Sur Mer cemetery which is regrettable too. And at the time I thought how much more I liked the fact that the Tate Britain had nothing (not even admission fees, just a donation box with a very beautiful black woman nearby to put one in a generous mood).


And you are cowards. Only cowards engage in the mobbing and 'group hate' which is your especial habit.

yrs,
rubato

But to get back to the original point:

The desire to 'do whatever it takes' to protect ourselves from any possible harm by malicious people is understandable but mistaken and in the end impossible.

The desire is driven both by a wish to protect ourselves from injury and also as a demonstration to the malefic that 'see, I'm too strong, you can't hurt me'. But when the costs of protection are greater than the harms they prevent the former is self-defeating. The latter is wrong because it is impossible, a fantasy, and because the real expression of strength is to say 'do your worst and we will still prevail'. The proof against enslavement is the willingness to suffer, or risk, for freedom.

The Oklahoma city bombing should should be more than adequate proof that 2-3 people of only ordinary ability can do great harm. But it should also be proof that they failed in the end. Their idea was that like the story in their wish-fullment fantasy "The Turner Diaries" the bombing would set off a mass revolution which tore us apart as a country. Nothing like that happened.

Al Qaeda can bleed us*, we cannot prevent that, but they cannot destroy us unless we become cowards and destroy ourselves by becoming an armed camp. The freest and safest communities and countries are not gated camps with guards or places with police on every corner but the neighborhoods where the residents look after each other.

yrs,
rubato

*"Us" here refers to the liberal democracies. You can choose to include your country in this or not. Or you can choose to ignore the plain meanings of words to find something else there if you have other emotional needs to fulfill.

rubato wrote:What a pair of pure jackasses.

What I wrote was written generally to refer generally.

What a shame it failed to do so then. It mentions only London, and carries only reference to a singular.

I'd like to make two points here:

First, whether he was just taking yet another passive aggressive swipe at other posters with snotty comments about the UK, or referring to "liberal democracies" in general, his "point" remains equally idiotic.

The fact of the matter is that the Islamo-fascist terrorists have demonstrated numerous times airliners are both a weapon and target of choice. Therefore there's nothing "paranoid" about a country (particularly one that has been both attacked and is regularly threatened with further attacks) which is hosting a target rich, high profile international event like The Olympic Games to have anti-air craft capability deployed. Indeed, it would be reckless and irresponsible to do otherwise.

Anyone who thinks that robust security preparations in a situation like this show that the Brits are "cowed" by some irrational "fear" is either delusional or hasn't read a newspaper for the past 11 years. (In rube's case, it could easily be both) The paranoia here, is the idea that a democracy is incapable of taking prudent security precautions without becoming a "police state"...

The OP looks like it was written by Steve....

Now, I also want to comment on this:

What a pair of pure jackasses.....

Only cowards engage in the mobbing and 'group hate' which is your especial habit.

LMAO

This must really be your day for channeling Steve, rube...

Now you're even trying to play the "I've done nothing wrong, I'm just the innocent victim picked at random by a gang of sadistic haters" card....

Here's a reality check for you rube: (Not that it will do any good; I've come across few people more reality averse in all my years on this mortal coil than your own good self.)

You have consistently, for more than twelve years on three forums, been the most misanthropic, toxic, and snotty little prick that any of those venues ever produced....It's nearly impossible for you to write a post that doesn't include some sort of shot at somebody here, whether direct or clumsily and transparently in-direct....

Insulting people and launching gratuitous attacks is apparently as vital to you as oxygen; it appears you can not exist without it.

Since you have behaved so abominably for so long towards so many, it is only natural that you have developed for yourself a number of folks here who are more than happy to mock you when you place your ignorance and/or stupidity on display.....There's no "mobbing"; you have earned the ill will of a number of individuals fair and square....It's not their fault that you have been a complete and utter pecker snot to more than one person...

Rube, being an ignorant blowhard, and an unrelenting asshole towards others, is a terrible character combination....

It means that you both richly deserve to get your comeuppance, and provide numerous opportunities for that comeuppance to be given to you....

You have absolutely no one here to blame for this state of affairs but yourself. You are merely reaping what you have sewn....

If you truly don't like it, (and I question whether that is the case; you have worked so hard at earning the enmity and contempt of others, I have to wonder if you aren't so filled with self loathing that you really like the situation you have created for yourself.) you and you alone are in a position to change it. Your behavior created the attitude that exists towards you among many here; only you can control your behavior, and only you can change it.

Persons responding to the substance: 0

Persons responding to the emotional pathology: 3

You express your own emotional needs for hatred. But no thought.


yrs,
rubato

Lord Jim wrote: First, whether he was just taking yet another passive aggressive swipe at other posters with snotty comments about the UK, or referring to "liberal democracies" in general, his "point" remains equally idiotic.

You say that as if you were pointing out something?

Lord Jim wrote:The OP looks like it was written by Steve....

I disagree.

The content of the post is pure Steve, but it's not written in Stevese. I'll credit the retard as writing comprehensively, even if his command of logic is hugely flawed, and his ability to express what he later claims he means is dubious.

You know, if rubato could only learn to say something like "I'm sorry, I guess I should have expressed myself more clearly, I'll try again" instead of something like

I had thought this would be perceived by all persons smarter than dirt clods, but apparently I was wrong.

...some of the threads he starts, and contributes to, could be really valuable and interesting.


"You're an ignorant asshole." "No, I'm not." "Yes, you are." "No, I'm not." "Yes, you are." "No, I'm not." "Yes, you are." "No, I'm not." "Yes, you are." "No, I'm not." "Yes, you are." "No, I'm not." "Yes, you are." "No, I'm not." "Yes, you are.".............. is neither valuable nor interesting.




P.S. Neither is "Well, he started it." "No he did." "No he did." "No he did." "No he did." "No he did." "No he did." "No he did." "No he did." "No he did." "No he did." "No he did." "No he did." "No he did." "No he did." "No he did."...............which is about to become the next phase of this thread.

There are substantial posts you could respond to. If you had the wit.



yrs,
rubato

LOL

Now he's attacking Econo....

One of the few folks around here who has tried to stand up for him....

One thing I'll say for rube; he's an equal opportunity insulter; just because you've bent over backwards to try and see his side despite his despicable behavior doesn't mean he won't repay your kindness with a rabbit kick to the kidneys....

Lord Jim wrote:One thing I'll say for rube; he's an equal opportunity insulter; just because you've bent over backwards to try and see his side despite his despicable behavior doesn't mean he won't repay your kindness with a kitten kick to the kidneys....

Fixed.

Nothing substantial? Still?

Pussies. Those who cannot think for themselves.

Waiting and waiting.

yrs
rubato

And wait you will. Do you really think anyone will treat you with anything other than scorn, the scorn you work so hard to earn?

Lord Jim wrote:The fact of the matter is that the Islamo-fascist terrorists have demonstrated numerous times airliners are both a weapon and target of choice. Therefore there's nothing "paranoid" about a country (particularly one that has been both attacked and is regularly threatened with further attacks) which is hosting a target rich, high profile international event like The Olympic Games to have anti-air craft capability deployed. Indeed, it would be reckless and irresponsible to do otherwise.

The way to prevent to prevent another 9/11 style attack is the way we have already chosen: make sure the terrorists don't get on the planes in the first place, and if they do anyway, make sure they can't take it over or harm either the plane or the passengers. Seems to be working quite well. I can't think of a single credible threat, or single previous attack on the Olympics, for which which these missiles would provide a defense. On the other hand, besides being useless for the task, they provide a depressing "armed camp" atmosphere to the city, and might even themselves become the target of an attack. (BTW, Chicago hosted the NATO summit a couple of months ago, and there were no surface-to-air missiles or anti-aircraft guns deployed, and no terrorist attacks.)