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Ugandan situations defined
Posted: Mon Nov 12, 2012 11:33 am
by MajGenl.Meade
Perhaps "odious" is too gentle a word.
http://m.timeslive.co.za/africa/?articleId=7191218
Uganda to pass anti-gay bill: official
Speaker Rebecca Kadaga told The Associated Press on Monday that the bill, which originally mandated death for some gay acts, will become law this year since most Ugandans "are demanding it."
Kadaga said she promised as much before a meeting on Friday of activists who spoke of "the serious threat" posed by homosexuals and demanded the law as "a Christmas gift."
Pepe Julian Onziema, a Ugandan gay activist, said the new push to pass the law was frustrating. President Barack Obama has described the bill as "odious" and some European countries have threatened to cut aid to Uganda if it passes.
Re: Ugandan situations defined
Posted: Mon Nov 12, 2012 6:35 pm
by Gob
About time Ugandan aid was cut.
Re: Ugandan situations defined
Posted: Tue Nov 13, 2012 4:19 am
by rubato
US fundamentalist missionaries have a lot to answer for.
They planted the seeds of this evil, watered and fed it, and made it grow into a nasty social plague.
Every death belongs to them. They are the murderers.
yrs,
rubato
Re: Ugandan situations defined
Posted: Tue Nov 13, 2012 4:38 am
by MajGenl.Meade
I don't know much (hmmm, perhaps anything) about Ugandan situations rubato. Could you stiffen my knowledge with some actual detail about these "fundamentalist" missionaries, their seeds and and their position - the who, the where and the when?
I find a generality such as yours without evidence to be little better than intellectual masturbation. And that I do know something of
Regards
Meade
Re: Ugandan situations defined
Posted: Tue Nov 13, 2012 6:19 am
by Sean
They were probably Republican missionaries...
Re: Ugandan situations defined
Posted: Tue Nov 13, 2012 9:03 am
by Andrew D
As most of you know, I am not a member of any church. As an agnostic, I would be dishonest if I were to profess adherence to the doctrines of any church.
But I grew up an Anglican (in the US, an Episcopalian). I still have a "filial" attachment to that church, and among my dearest friends are clerics of that church. My late father -- a man of learning and wisdom and compassion and call-to-service rarely matched in my experience -- was a perpetual deacon (an official status, not a failed attempt at priesthood) in that church.
This turns my stomach.
The Anglican church is up to its eyeballs in this.
I can just imagine my Dad -- and he was a very conservative cleric: opposed even to the ordination of women (he called them "she-priests") -- reacting to this.
The thundering of his excoriation.
This was a guy who could make himself heard in a cathedral while barely raising his voice. (He was, for decades, the preferred Great Litanist, because no one ever had the slightest doubt what he was saying. And no believer ever had the slightest doubt whose voice was behind it.)
The thundering of his excoriation.
How dare you?
How dare you?
Deny them Holy Orders? Of course: They are unrepentantly living in sin.
Deny them the sacraments? Yes, if they are unrepentant.
But kill them?
How dare you?
Christ died for the sins of all of us. His sacrifice makes salvation available to all of us.
Who are you to deprive these people of the possibility of repentance and redemption?
Who are you to arrogate unto yourselves the authority of judgment which is God's and God's alone?
How dare you?
The thundering of his excoriation.
It rings in my agnostic heart like my heart's own beating.
Re: Ugandan situations defined
Posted: Tue Nov 13, 2012 11:11 am
by Grim Reaper
Apparently a group of American lunatics called
The Fellowship has been providing funding to certain Ugandan lawmakers to help get bills like this turned into law.
Re: Ugandan situations defined
Posted: Tue Nov 13, 2012 12:20 pm
by MajGenl.Meade
Interesting take on your own link Grim. Interesting that Pres. Obama's "odious" comment was made at a prayer breakfast sponsored by these lunatics who had apparently not endorsed this particular bill and appear to have "uninvited" the Ugandan sponsor of the bill from their chummy feasts with top US officials.
A bit scarey to me though. The very fact of their secretiveness urges that their "affinity" to Christ Jesus is a great deal less than their "affinity" to totalitarianism. Still they ain't "fundamentalist missionaries" so rubato remains on the hook
Meade
Re: Ugandan situations defined
Posted: Tue Nov 13, 2012 8:55 pm
by Andrew D
You know that things are bad when the fact that the head (or soon-to-be-head) of the Anglican Church in Uganda believes that gay people should be imprisoned is
good news:
New Archbishop of Uganda called gays ‘unacceptable’ but opposed death penalty bill
by Stephen Gray
25 June 2012, 6:22pm
The new Archbishop of Uganda has been announced as the Rt Rev Stanley Ntagali, who has spoken out against the death penalty for people convicted of homosexuality in the African state while also calling the sexual orientation “categorically unacceptable”.
The Rt Rev Stanley Ntagali was elected the eighth Archbishop of the Anglican Church of Uganda in a secret ballot last week and will be consecrated in December.
He joined international concern over the death penalty provisions in Uganda’s infamous ‘Kill the gays’ bill in 2009 but has spoken out against homosexuality in the past and backed the prison sentences given for some kinds of gay acts.
Ugandan daily New Vision said at the weekend the new Archbishop’s anti-gay views were “well-known”.
He said in 2009: “Homosexuality is a big issue in Africa. The Bible says that only men of good standing, following the word of Christ can be leaders of the Church. We disagree with our counterparts in England and America, who ordain homosexuals as priests.”
Speaking in reaction to a draft law which would have seen the death penalty introduced for some offences related to gay acts instead of the severe prison sentences currently used, the then-Bishop of Masindi-Kitara said he opposed the death penalty.
The bill condemned for life imprisonment anyone who performed a gay sexual act. It would have given the death penalty to anyone who committed a gay act with a minor, their own child or someone with a disability. They would also be liable for death if they were living with HIV or if they had been convicted of a gay act before.
Bishop Ntagali said in reaction to the 2009 draft law that homosexuality was “categorically unacceptable.”
But, he added: “I think the death penalty is not acceptable. I think taking someone to jail for a period of time would be sufficient.”
That appears to be an improvement over the previous (or on-his-way-out) Archbishop of Uganda, Henry Orombi, as
described by Rowan Williams, the Archbishop of Canterbury -- the head of the entire Worldwide Anglican Communion:
Rowan Williams, Leader of the Anglican Church, Publicly Denounces Uganda’s Anti-Homosexuality Bill
by Steve Williams
December 13, 2009
7:00 am
In an interview with the British Telegraph newspaper, the leader of the Anglican Church, the Archbishop of Canterbury, has publicly condemned Uganda’s Anti-Homosexuality Bill that would literally enable the Ugandan government to hound gay men and women to death if the penalty of “aggravated homosexuality” is not removed.
In the interview, Dr. Rowan Williams talks about the schism facing the Anglican Church, his relationship with the Vatican, and also comments on legislation tabled by Ugandan MP David Bahati that has been dubbed the “Kill the Gays Bill”:
“Overall, the proposed legislation is of shocking severity and I can’t see how it could be supported by any Anglican who is committed to what the Communion has said in recent decades,” says Dr Williams. “Apart from invoking the death penalty, it makes pastoral care impossible – it seeks to turn pastors into informers.” He adds that the Anglican Church in Uganda opposes the death penalty but, tellingly, he notes that its archbishop, Henry Orombi, who boycotted the Lambeth Conference last year, “has not taken a position on this bill”.
While this is late in coming, it is an appropriately firm statement that leaves little room for doubt over the Anglican leader’s position as to the Ugandan Anti-Homosexuality Bill.
So the Anglican Church in Uganda wants merely to imprison gay people. And that is an improvement.
Disgusting.
Re: Ugandan situations defined
Posted: Wed Nov 14, 2012 12:30 am
by Lord Jim
rubato wrote:US fundamentalist missionaries have a lot to answer for.
They planted the seeds of this evil, watered and fed it, and made it grow into a nasty social plague.
Every death belongs to them. They are the murderers.
yrs,
rubato
Yeah, if it weren't for those white preacher men, them darkies wouldn't have been led astray....
Those kaffirs can't be expected to think for themselves...

Re: Ugandan situations defined
Posted: Wed Nov 14, 2012 3:40 am
by dales
rubato wrote:US fundamentalist missionaries have a lot to answer for.
They planted the seeds of this evil, watered and fed it, and made it grow into a nasty social plague.
Every death belongs to them. They are the murderers.
yrs,
rubato
Intellectually weak - Bravo, Sir!
