Global Warming

[dgs49]

Our local birdcage liner includes about 5 letters a week from watermelons whining about the US' role in "global warming."

I sent the following missive off a little while ago.


The flow of letters here bemoaning the US’ role in “global warming” is a constant source of amazement to me.

The relevant facts about “global warming” are quite simple, regardless of whether you believe the phenomenon is man-made or not. The US produces about a sixth of the world’s man-made CO2, and China produces about a fourth. Our CO2 emissions are going down, but China’s are going up dramatically, being almost exclusively responsible for a 2-1/2% global rise last year. India is now at about 6% of the total, but with a billion people who all want cars and air conditioning, they are going nowhere but up as well.

So even if the entire US population were to park its cars and turn off all our lights, global human CO2 production would continue to rise in spite of our efforts. In fact, the US’ discretionary contribution to projected global warming is microscopic and purely speculative. So forcing Americans to buy expensive, heavy, slow, electric cars and dangerous curly-cue lightbulbs, and harassing our electric utilities about their coal-fired power plants are meaningless, self-destructive gestures.

Our beloved President ignores a string of trillion dollar deficits that are a real and imminent threat to the younger generation, but announces a moral crusade against “global warming.” And if the letters to the P-G are any indication, we really are this gullible.

The point is, even if you believe the hype about anthropogenic global warming, there is essentially nothing we can do about it, so why beat ourselves up for nothing? It would be like me getting rid of my 9mm because gang-bangers are killing each other off downtown. Totally pointless.

[rubato]

"...

The point is, even if you believe the hype about anthropogenic global warming, there is essentially nothing we can do about it, so why beat ourselves up for nothing? It would be like me getting rid of my 9mm because gang-bangers are killing each other off downtown. Totally pointless.

Republicans! You're all such defeatist losers. You don't even try, you just give up.

It is a dynamic world. Things are in motion. You can change the trajectory of history only a little and wind up miles away from where you were otherwise headed, with so little effort. Calif. has gone from 26% smokers to 12% because we believed we could and we tried. Much harder to do that than just put in place a little energy efficiency and some new technologies. The status of women changed completely between 1970 and 1990.

China does not want to kill themselves with pollution or flood their coastal cities so our interests are not fundamentally different; they are aligned. And when that is the case a method of compromise can be found which serves both of us. The EU (about the same size as the US economy) has already begun reducing CO2 emissions as has Canada and California (we liberals lead, you follow!).

At the moment it looks like global warming will be our biggest challenge in the coming generation. But we're good. We're smart. And we're adaptable. Even with dead-weight losers like you to carry.

yrs,
rubato

[Joe Guy]

If we accept that global warming is real, we could focus on changes that need to be made to deal with the physical changes to come, for example, as in those in our shores that would be caused by rising sea levels.

Or we could choose to wait & react to natural disasters after they happen.

Or maybe we should let the next generation deal with it.

It's not our problem.

[rubato]

The situation is that we don't have a choice. We have to cope with it one way or another so we just need to get to work. Kudos to Obama for mentioning it in his inauguration speech, that's real leadership.

yrs,
rubato

[Grim Reaper]

The point is, even if you believe the hype about anthropogenic global warming, there is essentially nothing we can do about it, so why beat ourselves up for nothing? It would be like me getting rid of my 9mm because gang-bangers are killing each other off downtown. Totally pointless.

There are things we can do about it, but the longer we wait, the less changes can be done to slow down warming. But I guess you're just fine with full steam ahead for the worst possible scenario and to hell with everyone who gets displaced/killed as the temperature starts rising even higher.

[Long Run]

Real issue here is that you've crossed the line from being active BBS contributor to crank who sends letters to the local news source.

[dgs49]

Is a "crank" someone who points out facts that others don't want to confront?

Guilty.

As I get older I have less and less tolerance for massive, intentional stupidity.

Whether we like it or not, more than half of the world's population, led by China and India, are going to be creating orders of magnitude more CO2 in the coming decades than the U.S. could ever hope to curtail from our own production.

The real reason that "Progressives" are so keen on mobilizing public opinion to "fight global warming," is because it is just another way of government controlling the means of production - which is the ultimate goal.

[Long Run]

[Econoline]

The real reason that "Progressives" are so keen on mobilizing public opinion to "fight global warming," is because it is just another way of government controlling the means of production - which is the ultimate goal.

And you know this how? (And why would it just happen to turn out that over 95% of all climate scientists are "Progressives"???)

Maybe people are just really worried about the future, and want to do something about it, even if it's not enough? Maybe people would prefer to prepare for the not-quite-worst-case scenario rather than the absolutely-worst-possible-case scenario?

There are things we can do about it, but the longer we wait, the less changes can be done to slow down warming. But I guess you're just fine with full steam ahead for the worst possible scenario and to hell with everyone who gets displaced/killed as the temperature starts rising even higher.

Bingo.

[dales]

As I get older I have less and less tolerance for massive, intentional stupidity.

Welcome to the human race, live and let live or you'll blow a gasket.

[rubato]

China, btw, has made a commitment to install 50GW of photovoltaic systems.

yrs,
rubato

[dales]

Hot air:

[Andrew D]

Is a "crank" someone who points out facts that others don't want to confront?

No. A "crank" is, among other things, someone who posts deranged notions like this:

The real reason that "Progressives" are so keen on mobilizing public opinion to "fight global warming," is because it is just another way of government controlling the means of production - which is the ultimate goal.

[dgs49]

China is also building - and planning - more nuclear power plants than anyone else.

But they are constantly building coal-fired power plants and thumb their nose at suggestions that they slow down.

Nothing done within the 50 United States of America will result in the reduction of global man-made Co2 emissions.

Nothing.

[Scooter]

Basic principles of arithmetic would suggest otherwise.

[Grim Reaper]

Nothing done within the 50 United States of America will result in the reduction of global man-made Co2 emissions.

Any reduction within the USA would, by basic definition, result in a reduction of global emissions compared to if we made no change.

And I guess trying to set the standard for the rest of the world to follow is something you don't care about. Let's just wallow in our filth and hope somebody else saves the day. That's the American Dream right there.

[dales]

[rubato]

California has led the world in reducing auto emissions. The United States can do the same with global warming gasses. And in fact we are doing it in some ways already. Honeywell has introduced a 'low global warming refrigerant' which is expected to be a billion-dollar product for them.

http://www.1234facts.com/honeywell-elim ... n-credits/
"...
Honeywell’s New Low-Global-Warming Refrigerant Approved By U.S. Enviornmental Protection Agency For Use In Cars
Download Press Release: Download Press Releases

MORRIS TOWNSHIP, N.J., April 6, 2011 — Honeywell (NYSE: HON) announced today that its new low-global-warming refrigerant for use in automobile air conditioning systems has received final approval from the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency.

The approval allows the refrigerant, HFO-1234yf, to be used in new cars in the U.S. HFO- 1234yf has a global-warming-potential (GWP) that is 99.7 percent less than HFC-134a, the refrigerant currently used in most car air conditioning systems. The EPA granted the approval under its Significant New Alternatives Policy (SNAP) program.

“This is a significant step toward global adoption of this new refrigerant, which provides automakers with a near drop-in replacement for today’s refrigerant while helping them meet new regulatory standards,” said Terrence Hahn, vice president and general manager for Honeywell Fluorine Products.

The EPA and U.S. Department of Transportation last year adopted new standards for reducing greenhouse gas emissions from light-duty motor vehicles. Vehicle manufacturers can receive credit toward the standards for adopting refrigerants with less climate impact, such as HFO-1234yf.

“This new chemical helps fight climate change and ozone depletion,” Gina McCarthy, assistant administrator for EPA’s Office of Air and Radiation, said in a press release. “It is homegrown innovative solutions like this that save lives and strengthen our economy.”

In addition to the new U.S. standards, the European Union has adopted the Mobile Air Conditioning Directive, which requires new vehicle models starting in 2011 to use a refrigerant with a GWP below 150. By 2017, all new automobiles sold in Europe will be required to use a low-GWP refrigerant. HFO-1234yf has undergone extensive testing for safety and efficacy by independent testing groups such as the SAE International Cooperative Research Program, in which leading automakers participate.

The SAE testing found the product offers environmental performance superior to carbon dioxide, an alternative refrigerant, while having “the lowest risk for use in mobile air conditioning systems in meeting environmental and consumer needs.”

According to industry estimates, there are more than 400 million cars with air conditioning systems globally, with each system using between one-half and one kilogram of refrigerant. Air conditioning systems using HFO-1234yf are more energy efficient than carbon dioxide-based air conditioning systems, particularly at high ambient temperature conditions. For more information about HFO-1234yf, visit http://www.1234facts.com.
... "

But this is because they started research programs > 10 years ago when the danger of global warming was obvious.



yrs,
rubato

[dgs49]

It would provide greater results to simply outlaw beans for human consumption. Literally.

Humorous aside. I am aware of a major project underway now in the steel industry. A European steel maker is building a facility in Texas to pre-process their iron ore into nuggets. Then they will be shipped to Europe for use in their blast furnaces.

Producing the nuggets also produces gobs of CO2, but it is produced in TEXAS. Iron production with these nuggets produces less CO2 than with iron ore. This company will gain huge tax credits in its home country for reducing its carbon footprint in ironmaking. But the TOTAL global effect is a wash. they are simply gaming the system in Europe. And making our CO2 emissions greater.

What a world.

[Scooter]

You don't believe that any restrictions on CO2 should be imposed, and producing those nuggets in Texas boosts the U.S. economy, so why do you care?