Page 1 of 3

Another Obama Fustercluck

Posted: Fri Mar 29, 2013 6:29 pm
by dales
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/stor ... =175658194



As if gasoline wasn't expensive enough already. :arg

Cleaner Gas Rule Would Mean Higher Price At Pump




by The Associated Press

March 29, 2013 1:23 PM


WASHINGTON (AP) — The Obama administration's newest anti-pollution plan would ping American drivers where they wince the most: at the gas pump. That makes arguments weighing the cost against the health benefits politically potent.

The proposal to reduce sulfur in gasoline and tighten auto emission standards, released Friday, would raise gasoline prices by less than a penny per gallon, the Environmental Protection Agency says. But the oil industry points to its own study putting the cost between 6 and 9 cents a gallon.

The EPA also said its proposal would add about $130 to the price of new vehicles, beginning in 2025.

The administration says the costs to consumers are worth the payoff: billions of dollars in health benefits from reductions in smog- and soot-forming pollution.

The agency predicts $7 in health benefits for every dollar spent to implement the new rules. The agency must hold public hearings before finalizing the rules. It plans for them to take effect in 2017.

The proposal was praised by environmentalists and health advocates, as well as automakers who say it will help the U.S. catch up with the cleaner fuels used in other nations. California already uses the sulfur standard.

EPA Acting Administrator Bob Perciasepe said the proposal is designed to "protect the environment and public health in an affordable and practical way."

Opponents say gasoline prices are stubbornly high already and Americans shouldn't have to pay more. The oil industry, Republicans and some Democrats had urged the EPA to hold off on proposing the tighter regulations.

"With $4 a gallon gas the norm in many parts of the country, we cannot afford policies that knowingly raise gas prices," House Energy and Commerce Chairman Fred Upton said Friday. Instead, the Obama administration should work to increase energy supplies by approving the Keystone XL oil pipeline from Canada and other projects, said Upton, R-Mich.

Rep. Ed Whitfield, R-Ky., who is chairman of the energy and power subcommittee, called the sulfur rule "another example of an overzealous EPA" and said lawmakers would give it a hard look.

Environmentalists hailed the proposal as potentially the most significant in President Barack Obama's second term.

The so-called Tier 3 standards would reduce sulfur in gasoline by more than 60 percent and reduce nitrogen oxides by 80 percent. It would make it easier for states to comply with health-based standards for the main ingredient in smog and soot. And the regulation would allow automakers to sell the same vehicles in all 50 states.

The Obama administration already has moved to clean up motor vehicles by adopting rules that will double fuel efficiency and putting in place the first standards to reduce the pollution from cars and trucks blamed for global warming.

"Together, these standards represent the largest step in our nation's history toward reducing harmful emissions from the vehicles we drive every day," said Michelle Robinson, director of the clean vehicles program of the Union of Concerned Scientists, an environmental group for scientists.

Robinson said the rules would reduce asthma, respiratory problems and premature death.

"We know of no other air pollution control strategy that can achieve such substantial, cost-effective and immediate emission reductions," said Bill Becker, executive director of the National Association of Clean Air Agencies. Becker said the pollution reduction would be equal to taking 33 million cars off the road.

But the head of American Fuel and Petrochemical Manufacturers, Charles Drevna, questioned the motives behind the agency's regulation, since refining companies already have spent $10 billion to reduce sulfur by 90 percent. The additional cuts, while smaller, will cost just as much, Drevna said.

"I haven't seen an EPA rule on fuels that has come out since 1995 that hasn't said it would cost only a penny or two more," Drevna said.

A study commissioned by the American Petroleum Institute estimated that lowering the sulfur in gasoline would add 6 cents to 9 cents a gallon to refiners' manufacturing costs, an increase that likely would be passed on to consumers at the pump. The EPA estimate of less than 1 cent is also an additional manufacturing cost and likely to be passed on.

Re: Another Obama Fustercluck

Posted: Fri Mar 29, 2013 6:42 pm
by Scooter
Gee, whose estimate am I going to believe is more credible, the EPA, that has absolutely no reason to create more work for itself nor to lie about this, or an industry that has proven again and again that it will lie, steal, cheat, kill, and do whatever it can to maximize its profits at the expense of everyone else.

Hmmm, tough call...

Re: Another Obama Fustercluck

Posted: Fri Mar 29, 2013 7:06 pm
by Econoline
I predict that the price of gasoline will rise by MORE THAN 9 cents per gallon before 2017...regardless of whether or not this new rule goes into effect.

Re: Another Obama Fustercluck

Posted: Fri Mar 29, 2013 7:11 pm
by Lord Jim
The price of gas could also be lower than it is now by then....

There are so many variables involved in pump prices, and so many things that can happen over four years, a prediction about gas prices four years down the road is pretty much impossible to make with any degree of reliability....

Re: Another Obama Fustercluck

Posted: Fri Mar 29, 2013 7:22 pm
by oldr_n_wsr
Every season (at least winter and summer) they change to a new formula for us in the north east. Each time it changes the price goes up as they say the current formula (be it summer or winter) costs more to make than the previous season formula (be it winter or summer). I always ask, which costs more, the winter formula or the summer formula?

Drill baby drill. Flood the market and prices might drop.

But it's all a plan to get us into electric cars as that is "green". But without nuke and coal plants (green no-no's), there is not enough juice to go around.

Re: Another Obama Fustercluck

Posted: Fri Mar 29, 2013 7:25 pm
by Econoline
Lord Jim wrote:The price of gas could also be lower than it is now by then....

There are so many variables involved in pump prices, and so many things that can happen over four years, a prediction about gas prices four years down the road is pretty much impossible to make with any degree of reliability....
Nevertheless, I stand by my prediction...anyone want to bet on it?

I also predict that at some point during the next four years the price of gasoline will be more than 50¢/gal. above what it is now...and if it then drops to *ONLY* 9¢ above the current price, people will be happy about the price going down! :evil:

Re: Another Obama Fustercluck

Posted: Fri Mar 29, 2013 8:06 pm
by Gob
$1.52 a litre here today $5.75 Au per US Gallon or a couple of cents under $6.00 US.

£1.37 a litre in the UK, or £5.21 quid a US gallon = $7.91 US.


You really should stop complaining.

Re: Another Obama Fustercluck

Posted: Fri Mar 29, 2013 8:10 pm
by Lord Jim
You really should stop complaining.
No, you should start... :P

Re: Another Obama Fustercluck

Posted: Sat Mar 30, 2013 8:43 am
by Lord Jim
Nevertheless, I stand by my prediction...anyone want to bet on it?
Well Econo, I'll be happy to bet that whatever the price of gas is four years from now, it will be higher in California than it is Illinois...

Care to take that bet? ;)

Re: Another Obama Fustercluck

Posted: Sat Mar 30, 2013 10:16 pm
by rubato
Gas is so cheap that the 2 biggest-selling vehicles last year were low-mileage trucks. Gas is so cheap no one cares about it.


1. Ford F-150

Numbers of units sold: 390,661

2. Chevrolet Silverado 1500

Numbers of units sold: 319,539

If fuel was expensive people's behavior would reflect that fact.


Bunch of whiners.


Carpooling with 1 other person I get 52 passenger miles per gallon.

yrs,
rubato

Re: Another Obama Fustercluck

Posted: Sat Mar 30, 2013 11:22 pm
by Crackpot
Pickups always get the big numbers be quad of limited segment competition. BTW check the mileage the F150 gets

Re: Another Obama Fustercluck

Posted: Sat Mar 30, 2013 11:36 pm
by Lord Jim
Carpooling with 1 other person I get 52 passenger miles per gallon.
Down to one now I see...

Did yet another poor soul choose diving into the freeway traffic over being trapped in a car listening to you?

Re: Another Obama Fustercluck

Posted: Sun Mar 31, 2013 12:03 am
by Joe Guy
rubato wrote:Gas is so cheap that the 2 biggest-selling vehicles last year were low-mileage trucks. Gas is so cheap no one cares about it.


Look at best-selling cars forecast for 2013


Fewer than 5% of models sold in U.S. account for 30% of sales
Top 16 models tend to be inexpensive sedans that get high gas mileage
Excluding Ford F-150 pickup, Japanese models dominate

For decades, a relatively small number of cars and light trucks have dominated U.S. sales, whether American, Japanese or European manufacturers built them. This trend goes all the way back to the Ford (F) Model T. The dominance of the market by a few vehicles continued this year, and 24/7 Wall St. forecasts it will continue in 2013.

Twelve million cars and light trucks were sold in the U.S. through the first 10 months of 2012. November auto sales out Monday are not included. According to sales data provided by Edmunds.com, about 3.7 million of these were from sales of just 16 of the more than 250 models available.

The models have more than one characteristic in common. They tend to be inexpensive sedans that get high gas mileage. Every vehicle on the list has a base price of under $25,000. Fourteen have base models that have four-cylinder engines, which tend to get better mileage than engines with six and eight cylinders.

And of the 16 top-selling models, Japanese manufacturers will continue to dominate the list next year. Of the seven best-selling cars for 2013, six are Japanese. The exception is Ford's F-150 pickup, which has been a staple model line of the No. 2 U.S. car company since the 1940s.

Japanese cars usually do well on consumer quality surveys, and these manufacturers, which include Toyota (TM), Honda (HMC) and Nissan, have been in the high-mileage end of the market since they became popular in the 1980s.

Based on sales data for the first 10 months of 2012 from Edmunds.com, 24/7 Wall St. has forecast the 16 cars and light trucks that will sell best in 2013. Using that data, we projected full-year sales and calculated the year-over-year percentage change in sales.

Click here to see the list.

Re: Another Obama Fustercluck

Posted: Sun Mar 31, 2013 12:18 am
by Lord Jim
Rube nails it again.... :D

Re: Another Obama Fustercluck

Posted: Sun Mar 31, 2013 12:51 am
by dales
Now that you mention it......is Volume 3 in the works? :mrgreen:

Re: Another Obama Fustercluck

Posted: Sun Mar 31, 2013 12:59 am
by Lord Jim
Volume III is just about complete Dales....

Books that run much more than 600 pages tend to have binding issues, so it's probably about time to cut it off...

Volume IV is now being planned....

Re: Another Obama Fustercluck

Posted: Sun Mar 31, 2013 2:14 am
by Lord Jim
Now that I think about it, rube is actually somewhat overdue to get something right....

Right now he's way below his managing to stumble on to the right end of the stick average of once a week....(or since he averages a little under five posts a day, one out of every 35 posts)

It seems like it's been quite a while since he managed to be right about anything....

He might be well advised to post something about the proper care of petunias or gardenias...

The one and only thing rube seems to have any actual knowledge about is gardening, (which is why I've recommended to him a couple of times that he get a part time job with a landscaper or a garden center to supplement the money he gets from his other part time gig...maybe if rube were pulling his weight a little more in terms of financial contribution to his household, he'd have a better self-image and perhaps not be quite so bitter and nasty.) so he'd probably have his best shot at avoiding a flagrant fuck up if he went with that subject...

Re: Another Obama Fustercluck

Posted: Sun Mar 31, 2013 3:13 pm
by Grim Reaper
He's correct that the top two selling vehicles were trucks, but that's not the same as not caring about the cost of gas.

Re: Another Obama Fustercluck

Posted: Sun Mar 31, 2013 3:37 pm
by Scooter
Quad used to make the same argument, ignoring the fact that sales of pickup trucks are inflated by their use as commercial vehicles. Much as a contractor or a landscaper or a roofer might care about mileage, they are not going to be able to use a Honda Civic for work.

Re: Another Obama Fustercluck

Posted: Sun Mar 31, 2013 3:44 pm
by Lord Jim
sales of pickup trucks are inflated by their use as commercial vehicles.
Good point...