An oldie for Americans

[@meric@nwom@n]

Here's an oldie for the oldies (Americans) on here. I can recall a time when it was easy to be proud of this country. I remember the time when pride and patriotism were the rule rather than the exception, for good or for bad. I stood by my desk at school, every morning, blissfully insular and recited the pledge. My grandfather hung the flag out every day of his life. Were we brainwashed? Perhaps, but it felt a hell of a lot better than the lack of pride feels now.

[Gob]

Without wanting to detract from the sincere thrust of your debate, perhaps people today are more aware of how that patriotism can be manipulated and abused for political ends.

[dales]

Thanks for posting this, A/W.!

[Lord Jim]

good stuff @W...Skelton was known as a great comedic clown, but he certainly wasn't on that occasion....quite eloquent...

[Guinevere]

Who says pride and patriotism are the exception rather than the rule? You couldn't tell it by the number of flags hanging on my street.

[Miles]

My flag flies 24/7 365. But then everyone knows I am a shmeless flag waving patriotic son of a bitch.(And damn proud of it)

[Sue U]

Patriotism is not solely the province of the flag-waving my-country's-the-best crowd; it is not a salute, it is not a chant, it is not even a pledge. I have no lack of pride for the ideals my country stands for, but I have no illusion with respect to how far short of those ideals we fall. True patriots do the hard and thankless work of helping their country live up to its promises.

[Guinevere]

Patriotism is not solely the province of the flag-waving my-country's-the-best crowd; it is not a salute, it is not a chant, it is not even a pledge. I have no lack of pride for the ideals my country stands for, but I have no illusion with respect to how far short of those ideals we fall. True patriots do the hard and thankless work of helping their country live up to its promises.

I was going to come back and write more on this subject. The real question is not who is more patriotic, but what is patriotism?

And I agree with you Sue, its not simply flag waving, taking a pledge, or joining a march. Nor it is mindless obedience or endless argument. It is about doing the actual work behind the rhetoric.

[Timster]

Dissent is the Highest form of Patriotism.

Or IS it?

Some of you may know that I had this axiom incorporated into my profile at the other place.

Well rather than just post a one-line no-brainer to the thread at hand; I decided to do some research. Wow.

A very interesting discussion to be found here: http://urbanlegends.about.com/b/2005/02 ... iotism.htm

And thanks @W for the discussion. I actually own the VHS. I Love Red Skelton!

[Timster]

One post I wholeheartedly agree with is this:

Jeff(37)

Post #20, The quote is weak…

War is sometimes a necessary evil when the result will bring liberty to an oppressed people

… I do not think you can appreciate liberty that someone else gave you. And you can not impose liberty on others – that is an oxymoron.

Our forefathers understood rights come with responsibilities and courage.
It is a problem in our own country… we assume all rights for ourselves and little of the responsibility: Voting on issues without bothering to study them… Seeking damages simply because you can, when little suggests you should… touting national superiority(not military) without doing anything to verify it, without doing anything to preserve what good we do have, without doing anything to really contribute.

Our freedom – yours and mine – was the luck of birth and timing; The USA has had a good run – being a long-standing economic powerhouse, having a flexible system that we have a chance to influence, and acting as a major influence in ongoing world events.

That was yesterday and remains for a fleeting today… Short of a little depth and responsible action, it may not accurately portray tomorrow. Japan, China, and India have all given us economic disruption; We grow fat, lazy, and stupid… and comicly think we will always deserve the pole position. Other countries are already able to make some of the important rules… oil-producing countries for instance…

We are lately a lot better at consuming and destroying and offending then we are creating, restoring, evolving, collaborating, or elevating: Change is inevitable and change comes from dissent. But there is no reasonable pride to be found in resting on the accomplishments and courage of others. And freedom not personally obtained is usually unappreciated and quickly lost…

What are you/we doing to make anything better here? We hardly should be arrogantly trying to solve others problems at the point of a gun and presuming we know best – our own track internal and global record is not so breathtaking of late.

Nice.