Yet another gun study. By the nice people at UCSF.

[MajGenl.Meade]

Millions and millions. Or seven. The known data says... er, zero. Somewhere between zero and millions upon billions

[rubato]

I am reminded of the 'debate' back in the era when seatbelts were first being required in cars and then required to be worn. Back then people would say "but what if I'm trapped in a burning car by my seatbelt!!!". You don't hear that anymore not because people have learned how to evaluate the (much higher) statistical risk of dying in an accident w/o a seat belt versus the (very low) risk of being trapped in a vehicle fire by a seatbelt. You don't hear it anymore because people learned that putting a seatbelt on was very easy to do and simply stopped whining.

And it is illustrated by the quality of reasoning here.



yrs,
rubato

[dgs49]

In the past year, I could name a dozen auto accidents locally (mainly, crossing the median on a divided highway and hitting a semi, head-on) where the most obvious explanation was that one driver was trying to off himself (or herself, in one case). None was seriously considered as a suicide, because the survivors ALWAYS say, "s/he COULDN'T have committed suicide!"

I don't know. It is unknowable.

Intentional drug overdoses are the same thing. It is unknowable.

[Joe Guy]

You don't hear that anymore not because people have learned how to evaluate the (much higher) statistical risk of dying in an accident w/o a seat belt versus the (very low) risk of being trapped in a vehicle fire by a seatbelt. You don't hear it anymore because people learned that putting a seatbelt on was very easy to do and simply stopped whining.

Do you have any evidence to support your claim?

[Lord Jim]

And it is illustrated by the quality of reasoning here.

The lowest "quality of reasoning" to be found in this thread (as usual) comes from your own good self...

Unfortunately the quality of your reasoning skills are such that you're not capable of grasping that fact...

[rubato]

Even if the total number of suicides were 50% higher, that is, that 19,182 people managed to kill themselves in a way which escaped being recognized as suicide*, a number equal to the total number of gun suicides, then the percentage of gun suicides/overall suicides is still 33% A huge increase in risk. And when you factor in gun availability it only reinforces UCSFs conclusion.


http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/suicide.htm

suicide statistics

cause of death ……. Deaths per Year
total ……. 38364
by gun ……. 19392 50.5%
suffocation ……. 9493 24.7%
poisoning ……. 6599 17.2%
other ……. 2880 7.5%


Not a persuasive theory, the numbers fail. Everyone has the means to kill themselves by suffocation and nearly everyone has the means to poison themselves but only a fraction of people have access to guns.


UCSF .... +1

dgs ...... 0


If you know someone prone to depression or mental illness you should see about removing guns from their environment. You can save their lives.


yrs,
rubato

* The demographic group most likely to kill themselves are the lest likely to be able to think in an organized way and carry out a plan like this anyway. And the percentage who complete suicide are very often drunk on top of it.