Bye-Bye American Pie

[Jarlaxle]

After reading that...

It seems to me that it's so detailed, (and some of the details are so strange and specific; like the part about him crushing her temples, the specific racial slurs, the starving the pets) that either she's a complete fantasizing mental case, or she must be telling the truth...

It would be useful to hear what their kids have to say about all of this....

Or she was well-coached...

[BoSoxGal]

Right, poor Don is the victim. Just like all the other falsely accused wife/child/animal abusers.

[Jarlaxle]

After seeing two lives ruined (and a third saved only by sloppiness) by false charges in attempts to get leverage in divorces, yeah, I'm more than a little cynical.

[Big RR]

But her statements don't appear to be part of any divorce proceeding, and she appears to be an adult, so they wouldn't be considered all that much. She doesn't talk about abuse of her mother, so all these statements might be able to be offered for is to so his propensity to acts of mental cruelty--hardly a reason to coach anything.

[BoSoxGal]

After seeing two lives ruined (and a third saved only by sloppiness) by false charges in attempts to get leverage in divorces, yeah, I'm more than a little cynical.

I understand that this happens, I worked in family law for 20 years.

But it's a small fraction of the reality of domestic violence - or child molestation. There are dozens of studies on this, I'm not pulling it out of my ass, I've done the research in the context of countering such misperceptions in the jury pool. Men's rights propaganda notwithstanding, most allegations of DV and/or child abuse are genuine - and by the way, plenty of DV victims are MEN.

I'm sorry for your anecdotal experience, but it is no reason to disbelieve victims who find the courage to come forward.

[Jarlaxle]

In a DV case (much like a child abuse case), accusation constitutes guilt. No proof needed, no trial-the accusation is the punishment.

[Scooter]

Horseshit. Accusations of spousal or child abuse that emerge only at the time of the divorce, not corroborated by any previous evidence of abuse, are looked on with huge suspicion by the courts. The accuser is more often than not the party who ends up paying the price (in terms of unfavourable custody decisions, etc.)

[BoSoxGal]

Exactly right, Scooter - and I've been going to court with DV victims for 20 years now, so that beats anybody else's anecdotes to the contrary.

I tried to help a woman get a protective order on behalf of herself & daughter in Maine once - she had fled there from Massachusetts. The judge refused, citing lack of corroborative evidence. She went home to Massachusetts, got the order and possession of the family home pending divorce. A few weeks later husband showed up, blew her away with a shotgun and then blew his own head off - in front of the 12 year old daughter. I still cry over that case whenever I think of them.

So don't fucking tell me how easy it is to get a PO or fool the courts - you ask any attorney who has handled DV cases anywhere in the US and I'll bet money they'll echo my own observations from Maine, D.C., Arizona, Montana & even liberal Massachusetts - most judges are still not very sensitive to domestic violence issues and many a judge's decision has been the cause of further abuse and/or death of a DV victim.

[Jarlaxle]

My cousin had his life ruined by his wife, solely for leverage in a divorce he had no idea was coming. In six hours, he was unemployed, unemployable, and literally penniless. (He had less than $100 to his name.) He actually had to shoplift the sleeping pills he used to kill himself. My sister was told-by her lawyer-that she should claim her husband hit her. (He is an asshole, but never hit her. She refused, and got a different lawyer.)

I won't even be my wife's sparring partner anymore...not worth the risk.

[BoSoxGal]

I'm sorry for your cousin's suicide, but that doesn't make it any more true that false claims of DV are rampant and readily accepted by the family courts.

It's very hard to imagine any scenario of facts that fits what you presented as being remotely the fault of the legal system - nothing moves at that speed (6 hours) through the system. I can only speculate that your cousin opted for a very permanent solution to a temporary and fixable problem, and that's terribly sad. But it doesn't serve as an indictment of anyone other than his wife, if indeed her allegations were entirely false. I can't tell you how many disbelieving family members I have encountered over the years, who couldn't believe an abuser was an abuser sometimes even with incontrovertible physical evidence put right in front of their eyes.

[Jarlaxle]

His life was over...tbe career he had been working for since age 10 was gone. (He was a teacher.) His daughter admitted it was bogus years later. (I don't blame her...she was seven.)

[BoSoxGal]

Again, I'm sorry for your loss. But just the same it IS anecdotal evidence and much effort has gone into researching this issue and that research simply doesn't bear out that it's a widespread phenomenon.

Here's one article discussing it; if you were interested I could send you volumes more.
http://aja.ncsc.dni.us/courtrv/cr35-1/C ... Donald.pdf

It's terribly sad what happened to your cousin, and even more so what happened to his daughter, who has to live with all of it even if she was only 7 and not responsible.

But I've worked with children who were raped by their own parents or step parents or BF/GF of a parent - a sadly VERY common crime in our society. And I choose to default to believing the child, because volumes of research informs us that false allegations are VERY rare.

[Big RR]

BSG--I will agree that such allegations are rare mainly because it is very difficult for a kid to keep up such a lie), but I have seen it (and allegations of DV) used as a threat to obtain a better position in a divorce. The fact that the allegation is never raised before the court once the other parent gets what they wanted (or something close to it), makes me think it has to be a lie (would you withdraw an allegation and place your kid at risk in the future just to get a few more dollars?). Even the mention of such an allegation publicly is enough to make many the person back down, and I know a lot of sleazy divorce lawyers who routinely use such sleazy tactics.

But you're right, I've seen many kids who have been abused, and there is no excuse for it.

[Jarlaxle]

would you withdraw an allegation and place your kid at risk in the future just to get a few more dollars?

Some people? In a heartbeat and without a second thought!