Our leniency is absurd.

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Our leniency is absurd.

Postby Gob » Sat Nov 30, 2019 4:05 pm

The man who carried out the stab attack at London Bridge on Friday, named by police as Usman Khan, had previously been jailed for terrorism offences.

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Khan, 28, was wearing a GPS police tag and was out of prison on licence when he launched his attack, in which a man and a woman were killed and three others were injured.

Khan was shot dead by officers after members of the public restrained him.

The Queen said she was "saddened" by the attack.

She thanked the emergency services "as well as the brave individuals who put their own lives at risk to selflessly help and protect others".

Police declared the attack a terrorist incident.

Khan was known to the authorities, having been convicted for terrorism offences in 2012. He was released from prison on licence in December 2018, Met Police Assistant Commissioner Neil Basu said.

As part of his release conditions, Khan was obliged to take part in the government's desistance and disengagement programme - the purpose of which is the rehabilitation of people who have been involved in terrorism.

The Parole Board said it had no involvement in the 28-year-old's release, saying he "appears to have been released automatically on licence (as required by law)".

After leaving prison he had moved into a Stafford property on the "approved premises" list.

Some of the early debate about the London Bridge attack has focused on the sentence imposed on Usman Khan.

The sentencing judge thought Khan should be freed from prison only when it was safe to do so, as part "indeterminate penalty" scheme (IPP).

But the Court Of Appeal replaced Khan's IPP with an extended sentence, which required his release at the halfway point of his 16-year custodial term.

The IPP regime was scrapped in 2012 - a decision that was widely supported at the time.

Since Khan's conviction, legislation has been put in place for the Parole Board to determine when offenders on extended sentences should be let out.

The attack also raises questions about the extent to which people convicted of terrorism offences can be de-radicalised.

Khan was one of 51 inmates with terror links let out of jail in the 12 months to the end of March 2019, so it's inevitable that the role of those monitoring him will now be scrutinised.

Did the authorities pick up any warning signs about Khan? Was he meeting people he shouldn't have done or plotting the attack? If no signs were detected, why not? And if the authorities did spot concerns, what did they do?

Friday's horrific attack was the second fatal stabbing at an offender rehabilitation event this month, after Hakim Sillah died at a knife awareness course in Hillingdon, west London. (irony much?)

These events will likely fuel concerns about safety at such venues and whether checks need to be strengthened.


Shorter sentences are what's needed for terrorists.
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Re: Our leniency is absurd.

Postby Lord Jim » Sat Nov 30, 2019 4:21 pm

The only way someone like this should get "early release" is at the end of a rope...
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Our leniency is absurd.

Postby RayThom » Sat Nov 30, 2019 6:45 pm

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Followed by a collective

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Religious fundamentalists... they're out to kill us all.
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Re: Our leniency is absurd.

Postby Burning Petard » Sat Nov 30, 2019 10:06 pm

Perhaps you people of the United Kingdom need to re-visit G B Shaw's proposal. Mandatory death penalty for everything,, to be carried out by the Postal Service--but only for the second infraction. On report of any violation of societal norms, a form postal card would be delivered stating something to the effect "you have been observed parking your car outside the lines." Next time any violation at all of any kind what-so-ever, the mail man simply rings the bell and shoots the violator in the face. Eliminates all lengthy trials and messy appeals and need for jails.

snailgate.
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Re: Our leniency is absurd.

Postby Lord Jim » Sun Dec 01, 2019 12:23 am

Oh brother...

Excellent point, SG...

Clearly, having a system that releases convicted terrorists automatically after they've served half their sentence or having a system empowering mail carriers to shoot people dead for double parking are the only options available...

It's a clear-cut "either/or" choice ... :roll:
Last edited by Lord Jim on Sun Dec 01, 2019 9:29 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Our leniency is absurd.

Postby Gob » Sun Dec 01, 2019 8:43 am

Hanging is the answer, short sentence, and saves feeding an housing the fuckers.
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Re: Our leniency is absurd.

Postby Scooter » Mon Dec 02, 2019 6:47 pm

'Jack would be livid his death has been used to further an agenda of hate'

Dave Merritt
Mon 2 Dec 2019 16.30 GMT


Jack was proud. Jack was absorbingly intelligent. Jack was fiercely loyal. Jack loved music, art, eating good food with his family, and having more than one pint with his mates. Oh, and in case you haven’t realised by now … he was also devilishly handsome.

But Jack was also angry, frustrated, selfless, stubborn. He was angry because he saw our society failing those most in need. He was frustrated because the political elite have forgotten why it is important to be fair. He was selfless in his dedication to make things right in every second of his life. Jack devoted his energy to the purpose of Learning Together: a pioneering programme to bring students from university and prisons together to share their unique perspectives on justice. Unlike many of us, Jack did not just go to work. He lived and breathed fire in his pursuit of a better world for all humanity, particularly those most in need.

If Jack could comment on his death – and the tragic incident on Friday 29 November – he would be livid. We would see him ticking it over in his mind before a word was uttered between us. Jack would understand the political timing with visceral clarity.

He would be seething at his death, and his life, being used to perpetuate an agenda of hate that he gave his everything fighting against. We should never forget that. What Jack would want from this is for all of us to walk through the door he has booted down, in his black Doc Martens.

That door opens up a world where we do not lock up and throw away the key. Where we do not give indeterminate sentences, or convict people on joint enterprise. Where we do not slash prison budgets, and where we focus on rehabilitation not revenge. Where we do not consistently undermine our public services, the lifeline of our nation. Jack believed in the inherent goodness of humanity, and felt a deep social responsibility to protect that. Through us all, Jack marches on.

Borrow his intelligence, share his drive, feel his passion, burn with his anger, and extinguish hatred with his kindness. Never give up his fight.

To Jack Merritt. Now, and forever.
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Re: Our leniency is absurd.

Postby BoSoxGal » Mon Dec 02, 2019 7:01 pm

Excuse me, but wasn’t a paroled convicted murderer one of the heroes of the day who fought off the terrorist and thus limited the injuries and loss of life? This incident is not a reason to reject the focus on rehabilitation that is a major component of the UK justice system.
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Re: Our leniency is absurd.

Postby Gob » Mon Dec 02, 2019 8:15 pm

Just recipes for scum murdering innocent people.
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Re: Our leniency is absurd.

Postby Long Run » Mon Dec 02, 2019 9:09 pm

The attack was at a prisoner rehabilitation meeting, so it is not surprising that convicted felons helped subdue Khan. This highlights the difference between those who have a reasonable chance of rehabilitation compared to sworn enemies of the state who have not demonstrated they are safe to be in society.
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Re: Our leniency is absurd.

Postby Gob » Tue Dec 03, 2019 9:04 am

Long Run wrote: This highlights the difference between those who have a reasonable chance of rehabilitation compared to sworn enemies of the state who have not demonstrated they are safe to be in society.


It also highlights the difference between those who are merely deviant to societies norms, and those who are driven and supported by a hate filled religious ideology.
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Re: Our leniency is absurd.

Postby Lord Jim » Tue Dec 03, 2019 11:59 am

This incident is not a reason to reject the focus on rehabilitation that is a major component of the UK justice system.


It seems to me that a properly ordered legal system ought to be able to walk and chew gum at the same time...And that this ability is what the public deserves, and has a right to expect..

Having a system that uses rehabilitation where appropriate but also doesn't mindlessly automatically release people convicted of terrorism charges after serving half their sentence doesn't seem to me like too much to ask...

(To be honest, I suspect that if the terrorism involved here was motivated by White Nationalism rather than Radical Islamism there'd be more outrage about the release, and less inclination to be "understanding"... ;) )
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Re: Our leniency is absurd.

Postby Gob » Tue Dec 03, 2019 12:30 pm

:ok
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Re: Our leniency is absurd.

Postby Sue U » Tue Dec 03, 2019 4:30 pm

Khan was shot dead by officers after members of the public restrained him.


Such leniency!
GAH!
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Re: Our leniency is absurd.

Postby Gob » Tue Dec 03, 2019 5:15 pm

He was wearing a, (fake as it turns out,) suicide vest.
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Re: Our leniency is absurd.

Postby Crackpot » Tue Dec 03, 2019 5:20 pm

I don’t know it seems to have worked as described.
Okay... There's all kinds of things wrong with what you just said.
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Re: Our leniency is absurd.

Postby BoSoxGal » Tue Dec 03, 2019 6:31 pm

Lord Jim wrote:
This incident is not a reason to reject the focus on rehabilitation that is a major component of the UK justice system.


It seems to me that a properly ordered legal system ought to be able to walk and chew gum at the same time...And that this ability is what the public deserves, and has a right to expect..

Having a system that uses rehabilitation where appropriate but also doesn't mindlessly automatically release people convicted of terrorism charges after serving half their sentence doesn't seem to me like too much to ask...

(To be honest, I suspect that if the terrorism involved here was motivated by White Nationalism rather than Radical Islamism there'd be more outrage about the release, and less inclination to be "understanding"... ;) )


That’s fine. I was responding to posts which appeared to decry the concept entirely.

For what it’s worth, both the UK and the USA have abysmally bad recidivism rates - 75% and 76% respectively. Both countries put punishment ahead of true rehabilitation, but the UK imposes shorter sentences.

Norway, the country with the lowest recidivism rate in the world, has the most progressive sentencing scheme and the most humane, progressive, comfortable prisons. They treat prisoners like human beings who have done a wrong thing, not beasts who should suffer endlessly. They understand that what you do to people in prison in most cases comes back to haunt you in society. They have a mechanism in place to allow them to extend the prison sentences of those they believe are not actually rehabilitated.

https://www.businessinsider.com/why-norways-prison-system-is-so-successful-2014-12


But in the UK and the USA people would be outraged by such good treatment of prisoners - so we stay on the endless merry go round of destroying souls and massively high recidivism. Good for us!
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Re: Our leniency is absurd.

Postby Big RR » Tue Dec 03, 2019 6:43 pm

Gob wrote:He was wearing a, (fake as it turns out,) suicide vest.


This makes me seriously question this man's sanity; of what possible use would a fake suicide est be. Sure, it could make you more a target of lethal force (from the police, who I think would have some idea as to what such a vest would look like), but I would bet the average person wouldn't know what such a vest looked like (real or fake) , and would tackle/restrain any person making these attacks regardless of what he was wearing. It's not like waving a fake gun that looks real, but more like being a wannabe terrorist. Indeed, if he was part of an Al Qaeda cell, I think they just tolerated him and put him out in a fake vest to get rid of him; he seems like the Walter Mitty of terrorists. Sadly, anyone with a weapon can cause mayhem or even death, but this guy doesn't appear to be a hardened terrorist, more like someone menatally ill.
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Re: Our leniency is absurd.

Postby Econoline » Tue Dec 03, 2019 10:48 pm

"The only thing that can stop a bad guy with a knife is a good guy with a narwhal tusk."
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Re: Our leniency is absurd.

Postby Gob » Wed Dec 04, 2019 11:11 am

Big RR wrote:
This makes me seriously question this man's sanity; of what possible use would a fake suicide est be.


It could create more terror, and give you more time to get stabby.
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