Ready now?

[Bicycle Bill]

So you want to play the "guns don't kill people, people kill people" card?  OK, fine.

I therefore propose a new law that everyone in the country will report for a semi-annual psychological profile and testing with regard to mental instability that may manifest itself by random violent action.  Anyone failing said testing will be required to immediately surrender any weapons they may possess, including but not limited to rifles, pistols, knives, clubs, or archery equipment, and will be placed on a register forbidding them to purchase or possess the same until such time has passed that they are once again found to be mentally stable enough to be allowed to again possess weapons.

Yeah, I know.  Absolutely ridiculous, totally incapable of being implemented, and completely unenforceable.  But have you got any better ideas than "business as usual" for the gun manufacturers and dealers ... and the funeral directors?

-"BB"-

[Jarlaxle]

So you want to play the "guns don't kill people, people kill people" card?  OK, fine.

I therefore propose a new law that everyone in the country will report for a semi-annual psychological profile and testing with regard to mental instability that may manifest itself by random violent action.  Anyone failing said testing will be required to immediately surrender any weapons they may possess, including but not limited to rifles, pistols, knives, clubs, or archery equipment, and will be placed on a register forbidding them to purchase or possess the same until such time has passed that they are once again found to be mentally stable enough to be allowed to again possess weapons.

Yeah, I know.  Absolutely ridiculous, totally incapable of being implemented, and completely unenforceable.  But have you got any better ideas than "business as usual" for the gun manufacturers and dealers ... and the funeral directors?

-"BB"-

Start teaching about firearms in middle school. Nationwide shall-issue concealed carry. (CCW holders are-far and away, it's not close-the most law-abiding people in the country.) By HS graduation, every American should be able to safely load, unload, and shoot a rifle and pistol.

Start actually prosecuting people buying, owning, and using guns illegally. (Start with Hunter Biden.)

[Jarlaxle]

Of course we can't prove a claim like that.  But you have to admit that it does make logical sense, even from a simple mathematical standpoint.  Less weapons of quick and easy killing out there = less bullets likely to be flying around = less people dead and/or wounded.

And since it is impossible to prove a negative, neither can YOU conclusively state that if we DID ban 'assault weapons' like the weapon the Colorado shooter purchased less than ten days before his shooting spree — the Ruger AR-556, a semi-automatic "pistol" capable of accepting a 30-round magazine and fires the same cartridge (5.56 NATO) as a full-sized AR-15 ... in effect, an easily-concealable, cut-down, short-barreled assault rifle that successfully circumvents already existing rules covering purchases and background checks required for long guns — we WOULDN'T have fewer deaths.

And the gun nuts are too scared that someone is trying to take away their noisemakers that they are totally unwilling to say, "You know, maybe you ARE right.  Let's try it for a while and find out."

Billy, my boy, it is actually much simpler than that: we do not trust you. There is no "try it for a while" and we both know it.

So it's a stalemate, until the next shooting happens.....   which will probably be within a week to ten days.  Hell, it was only two days later (and barely a week after the other shootings at the Atlanta spas/massage parlors that left eight people dead) that another twenty-something-year-old whack-job walked into a supermarket in Atlanta with five or six weapons and fuckin' BODY ARMOR even, went into the bathroom, and suited himself up in full battle-rattle.  Fortunately, he was seen and reported and police were able to intervene and apprehend him before he could try to set a new high score.

Goddammit, Jarl, even a cement-head like you should be able to see that we need to do SOMETHING!!

-"BB"-

And whether or not it helps, who cares...because we had to do SOMETHING, and this is SOMETHING!

[Jarlaxle]

No evidence? What about history? A hundred years ago the only requirement in the USofA for possession of fully automatic firearms (the tommy gun for instance) was a willing seller and a willing buyer. Same for dynamite. The Marlin company sold a lever action rifle with a 15 inch barrel and it fired the .44-40 cartridge.
Hollywood with at least a couple of tv shows demonstrated the way a lever action could pump out a pretty fast stream of bullets. The Browning Automatic Light Rifle had a twenty round box magazine, fired the .30-06 cartridge (much more powerful than the little 5.56mm used in the Ruger AR556) and was only fully automatic. That is the gun Steve McQueen used in the movie The Sand Pebbles. The Winchester company made a pump action 12ga shotgun with a short bbl that could fire as fast as you could work the pump, if you just held the trigger back. Where were all the mass shootings back then?

Now we have all those scary 'black guns' and most of them shoot the feeble little military .223--feeble compared to a .45-70 or a 12 ga slug gun or even the venerable .30-06 that is available in many semi-auto rifles. What has changed in the last hundred years?

snailgate

Mostly...the media. Only recently has there been the nonstop 24-hour news cycle and the nonstop panic-porn.

[Bicycle Bill]

Billy, my boy, it is actually much simpler than that: we do not trust you.

But WE should trust YOU, and those people like you, who feel the need to carry a hidden, lethal, penis-substitute — and, of course, play the "mine-is-bigger-than-yours" game as the same time — under any and all circumstances... weddings, kid's soccer matches, graduations, dinner parties, Sunday church services, political gatherings, and even situations such as an afternoon watching the football game at a bar where you are intentionally going to consume something which RELEASES one's inhibitions.  Add one hot-head who finally decides "I'm mad as hell and I'm not going to take it any longer!", and it sounds like a formula for disaster to me.

As far as your half-baked "Start teaching about firearms in middle school. Nationwide shall-issue concealed carry. (CCW holders are-far and away, it's not close-the most law-abiding people in the country.)  By HS graduation, every American should be able to safely load, unload, and shoot a rifle and pistol." ..... Good luck on that one!  Many school districts can't even afford to teach kids how to drive a car as part of a public school education these days and have been forced to drop "Driver's Ed" (at least as I took it back in the 1970s with both classroom and behind-the-wheel training), and it's a lead-pipe cinch that a person these days will need to know how to safely operate a motor vehicle far more times than they will need to know "how to load, unload, and shoot a rifle and pistol."  Is the NRA going to suddenly see a resurgence and provide sufficient funding for such a program nationwide?  Or will we just plunk the kids down in front of a computer screen and the latest edition of "Grand Theft Auto"?

And while it may be true NOW that CCW holders are the most law-abiding people in the country, what happens once you give everybody a CCW permit?  Leopards do not change their spots, and I don't believe a CCW permit has special properties that will cause criminals to suddenly have a change of heart and become exemplary citizens just because of that card or piece of plastic in their pocket.

There is no "try it for a while" and we both know it.

Ah, but there is, and we have done it before. The 18th Amendment.  Prohibition, a/k/a "The Noble Experiment".  Tried it, it didn't work, and it was repealed.

And as far as firearms go, there have been plenty of other rules and restrictions that were passed with a specific end date and never renewed, such as the 'assault weapons' ban or the original Brady Bill.

-"BB"-

[Burning Petard]

BB you proposal for mental testing has one little problem--no such test exists. Our current 'correctional institutions' do lots of such testing before early release and they have a pretty poor record of predicting who will act again as a violent offender.

snailgate

[Jarlaxle]

Billy, my boy, it is actually much simpler than that: we do not trust you.

But WE should trust YOU, and those people like you, who feel the need to carry a hidden, lethal, penis-substitute — and, of course, play the "mine-is-bigger-than-yours" game as the same time — under any and all circumstances... weddings, kid's soccer matches, graduations, dinner parties, Sunday church services, political gatherings, and even situations such as an afternoon watching the football game at a bar where you are intentionally going to consume something which RELEASES one's inhibitions.  Add one hot-head who finally decides "I'm mad as hell and I'm not going to take it any longer!", and it sounds like a formula for disaster to me.

OK, one more time...concealed carry permit holders are the most law abiding people in the country. Other than traffic violations, they commit crimes at a lower level than anyone else, including police officers.

As far as your half-baked "Start teaching about firearms in middle school. Nationwide shall-issue concealed carry. (CCW holders are-far and away, it's not close-the most law-abiding people in the country.)  By HS graduation, every American should be able to safely load, unload, and shoot a rifle and pistol." ..... Good luck on that one!  Many school districts can't even afford to teach kids how to drive a car as part of a public school education these days and have been forced to drop "Driver's Ed" (at least as I took it back in the 1970s with both classroom and behind-the-wheel training), and it's a lead-pipe cinch that a person these days will need to know how to safely operate a motor vehicle far more times than they will need to know "how to load, unload, and shoot a rifle and pistol."  Is the NRA going to suddenly see a resurgence and provide sufficient funding for such a program nationwide?  Or will we just plunk the kids down in front of a computer screen and the latest edition of "Grand Theft Auto"?

Most instructors I know (including my wife, my mother, my uncle, and myself) would happily volunteer time to teach gun safety. My wife does it now. (In fact, she's DOING it right now, for another half hour.)

And while it may be true NOW that CCW holders are the most law-abiding people in the country, what happens once you give everybody a CCW permit?  Leopards do not change their spots, and I don't believe a CCW permit has special properties that will cause criminals to suddenly have a change of heart and become exemplary citizens just because of that card or piece of plastic in their pocket.

Criminals cannot get a CCW, nor can they legally own a gun. (Not that this STOPS them.)

There is no "try it for a while" and we both know it.

Ah, but there is, and we have done it before. The 18th Amendment.  Prohibition, a/k/a "The Noble Experiment".  Tried it, it didn't work, and it was repealed.

Yes, and it only took 12 years, a bunch of dead people, a giant expansion of bloated bureaucracy (much of it still around almost a century later), rampant corruption, and resulted in multiple generations who have widespread contempt for the law!

And as far as firearms go, there have been plenty of other rules and restrictions that were passed with a specific end date and never renewed, such as the 'assault weapons' ban or the original Brady Bill.

-"BB"-

Yes, because that was in the original (thank you, NRA). and even then, it came much too close to being as "temporary" as Mass Pike tolls.

[ex-khobar Andy]

OK, one more time...concealed carry permit holders are the most law abiding people in the country. Other than traffic violations, they commit crimes at a lower level than anyone else, including police officers.

In Kentucky at least, a concealed carry permit holder
- is over 21
- has undergone certified training
- has paid a $60 fee plus provided photos etc
- has provided ID such as a driver's license to verify residency
- has given full details such as DOB, SSN, address (and must inform sheriff's office of changes)
- is not a convicted felon

I don't mind if all gun owners go through this process. Sounds a bit like registration to me.

[Jarlaxle]

Most of that is required simply to legally buy a gun from a dealer.

[Gob]

OK, one more time...concealed carry permit holders are the most law abiding people in the country. Other than traffic violations, they commit crimes at a lower level than anyone else, including police officers.

Correlation, does not equal causation.

[MGMcAnick]

How does the 14 year old get that car from place of purchase to said private property? Oh, that's right, he can't, because it would be illegal for him to drive it there.

How does that 16 year old drive that car in public? Oh, that's right, he can't, because he can't get it registered or insured until he is 18.

Try harder.

Not true here, although I can't speak for any other state.

A 14 year old can get a restricted license for agricultural work on his or her family farm and to drive to and from school. Probably can't buy a gun on the farm. Not so sure about school, but guns within 1000 feet of a school are not legal without a CC permit.

A 17 year old can get a completely unrestricted license. The age was 16 when my kids started driving. Me too for that matter.

Insurance is expensive for any teen. I had that discussion with a mother of eight this morning. They pay $230 a month for only liability insurance on three dilapidated vehicles for the parents and two driving age kids still at home. Their newest car is a 1999. You can hear it coming two blocks away.

I just renewed my CDL, motorcycle and auto license this morning. Couldn't pass without glasses for the first time. It cost $55. I got my first auto license two weeks after my 14th birthday. It cost $2. I was the same 6'1" tall and 100 lbs lighter then. String bean.

[Econoline]