Just Curious - Gun Thread....

[Joe Guy]

What practical usage does a semi-automatic rifle have other than giving the shooter the ability to kill many people at one time? Why are people against banning them?

Do people want them allowed because if they're outlawed then only bad people will find them and get them illegally? How many examples can someone give of someone using a semi-automatic weapon to save lives?

Or do people want them in case they need to fight a civil war? Is that it? For Trump's army?

[TPFKA@W]

I have 46 of them and I keep them around just in case I encounter THEM.

[Joe Guy]

I have 46 of them and I keep them around just in case I encounter THEM.

That's the first good reason I've heard so far.

Note: I assume that's an old picture of you (on the right)...

[TPFKA@W]

It’s not me it’s my great ant.

[Bicycle Bill]

What practical usage does a semi-automatic rifle have other than giving the shooter the ability to kill many people at one time? Why are people against banning them?

When hunting critters like deer, if you miss with your first shot (hey, it happens!!) it gives you an opportunity to get off a second shot without taking the rifle down from your shoulder to work the bolt.  Same thing with semi-auto shotguns... you have a chance to get two birds on the wing in a single round.  In fact, 'doubles' are an accepted form of sport shooting — trapshooting — and is even a medal sport in the Olympics.

And, of course, to go back to the deer hunting — if you spook up something bigger and meaner than you and it attacks you, you can pump lead at it as fast as you can pull the trigger, which may mean the difference between life and death. Although I suspect that an occurrence like this is mighty damned rare.

-"BB"-

[Big RR]

I agree; as someone who owns no guns, I can see a semi automatic rifle would have utility in hunting (as Bill pointed out), for target shooting (certain types of matches make use of the repeating nature with pop up targets, etc.), and self protection (its pretty easy to miss when you are under a lot of stress, but you'll get another shot). None of these involves shooting many people at one time ))and before you pooh-pooh the self protection reason, remember, while many of us are within a very few minutes of a police response, in some states with remote areas, such responses could take 40 minutes to an hour or more--you are literally on your own for personal and home protection).

And if a persons who dies not own guns can come up with these quickly, I imagine there are other reasons as well that those who do own guns could point out.

[Burning Petard]

Well,there is always the option of the double barreled rifle, which was the traditional hunting rifle of choice for things like lions and buffalo in Africa.
It is basically very expensive. Although I think there was a combination rifle shotgun made in American specifically for hunting wild turkey that cost less than a new car.

Semi-auto .22 rimfire rifles have dominated that caliber, except for really expensive paper target competition, for about a hundred years. But the real question is not about the old semi-auto hunting models made by Winchester, Remington, Browning for about a hundred years, but about the AR and the AK -- commonly called 'black rifles' with connection to military infantry rifles since the 1960's. They have the advantage of the military heritage, which means they are designed for functional reliability, simple maintenance, and mass production. These qualities add up to cheap, and dependable for civilians.. Go to you tube and see the instructions on how to do routine maintenance on a lever action hunting rifle, the familiar 'cowboy' rifle of movie fame. Nobody is gonna take one down and put it back together in less than a minute blindfolded. Military doctrine has changed. The infantry rifle when I was wearing the uniform was heavy and long, mounted on a stout piece of wood that made a good club.. Now they are short, light and not a speck of wood attached. That all makes them handy for long walks in the woods or behind the seat of a pickup truck, and no immediate problems in rain or snow.

Call 911? I have a friend who is a deputy sheriff in a county in Michigan where there are three deputies on duty at night. One is at the station. There are three organized towns in the county and they only each have one person on duty at night who is in a car, restricted to city limits. Response time is frequently more than an hour. The original 'Tommy Gun" which would now be called a full-auto sub-machine gun, was originally marketed for farmers' self-defense. No need for such a thing? Go back and review the book or movie "In Cold Blood"

snailgate.

[BoSoxGal]

Call 911? I have a friend who is a deputy sheriff in a county in Michigan where there are three deputies on duty at night. One is at the station. There are three organized towns in the county and they only each have one person on duty at night who is in a car, restricted to city limits. Response time is frequently more than an hour. The original 'Tommy Gun" which would now be called a full-auto sub-machine gun, was originally marketed for farmers' self-defense. No need for such a thing? Go back and review the book or movie "In Cold Blood"

snailgate.

Here’s what happened in the home invasion murders of the Clutters, the family depicted in In Cold Blood:

After driving more than 400 miles across the state of Kansas on the evening of November 14, Hickock and Smith arrived in Holcomb, located the Clutter home, and entered through an unlocked door while the family slept. Upon rousing the Clutters and discovering there was no safe, they bound and gagged the family, and continued to search for money, but found little of value in the house. Still determined to leave no witnesses, the pair briefly debated what to do; Smith, notoriously unstable and prone to violent acts in fits of rage, slit Herb Clutter's throat and then shot him in the head. Capote writes that Smith recounted later, "I didn't want to harm the man. I thought he was a very nice gentleman. Soft-spoken. I thought so right up to the moment I cut his throat."[10] Kenyon, Nancy, and then Mrs. Clutter were also murdered, each by a single shotgun blast to the head. Hickock and Smith left the crime scene with a small portable radio, a pair of binoculars, and less than $50 in cash.[11]

I’ve lived in rural places most of my life and can attest that even today, many people don’t lock their doors out in rural America.

Even where people do, the incidents of homeowners using firearms effectively to ward off attack from home invaders are few and far between.

There are far more stories of homeowners shooting dead their returning teenagers after they’d snuck out the house as teens will do; of homeowners having their guns used against them by another member of the family; of homeowners losing a child when that child uses the home defense firearm against a sibling in play; of homeowners using their home defense firearm to take their own lives and sometimes with the added bonus of wiping out the rest of the family first.

It’s just statistics. Facts. Bothersome things!

Perhaps it’s foolish to live one’s life without being in a constant state of heightened anxiety about potential home invasion and collecting firearms to win the battle when the invaders arrive - but if so, I choose foolish.

[Burning Petard]

I am delighted by this thread. It is nicely salted with humor and personal experience. NO wild paranoia. Nobody screaming about something somebody did not actually post.. Dare I say it? Civil exchange of views?

The first AK47 I saw outside a gun store was in the back of a pickup truck in the middle of Kansas and used to shoot jackrabbits while bouncing over the prairie. Cheap military surplus gun and ammunition. Three guys with guns shooting from a bouncing box of an old pickup truck was scary. I sat right under the rear window of the cab and held on to the box.

Why am I against banning them? Because I have seen no proposal to ban them that would actually be effective. Now one can even make one with pretty raw materials and need not have the skills or equipment of a tool-and-die man. Just motivation. Might even be cheaper than buying one.

snailgate

[Gob]

When hunting critters like deer, if you miss with your first shot (hey, it happens!!) it gives you an opportunity to get off a second shot without taking the rifle down from your shoulder to work the bolt.  
-"BB"-

And how many of these killing machines are used for deer hunting, as opposed to "stoppin the gubermint from taking ma guns"?

[Jarlaxle]

Hundreds of thousands. I suspect the AR platform is the most-common hunting rifle in the country. I wouldn't be surprised if it outnumbered all other rifles COMBINED.

[Bicycle Bill]

When hunting critters like deer, if you miss with your first shot (hey, it happens!!) it gives you an opportunity to get off a second shot without taking the rifle down from your shoulder to work the bolt.  
-"BB"-

And how many of these killing machines are used for deer hunting, as opposed to "stoppin the gubermint from taking ma guns"?

I don't hunt, so I don't know, but I'm sure there's more than just a couple of the old style, non-"black rifle" types still out there.  I do know that, back in the day, a few of the kids in my old Boy Scout troop had .22-caliber semi-auto rifles (that was back when you could buy one off the floor of a goddam Holiday gas station for less than forty bucks!!) and used them at summer camp to get their Marksmanship merit badge, and I also know my 'country cousins' had a couple that they used when they went out to shoot squirrels and sell the tails (it was my understanding that these were used by fishermen for tying flies).

The only 'shooting' weapons I own are my two old Daisy BB guns — a model 25 pump and a model 94 lever-action — the so-called "Spittin' Image" of a Winchester 1894, and I'm still pretty good with them.  I've also got an old wood laminate recurve bow that I haven't strung or shot in over 30 years floating around here somewhere — and I don't think I'd dare try it now unless I took it to someone who knows a lot more about them than I do and he checks it out first.

-"BB"-

[BoSoxGal]

In 2014 a survey was done and results were 27% of hunters were using the AR platform to hunt. I couldn’t find more recent results but there has been a massive recent effort to market these weapons to boys and men, with the gun being touted as a ‘man card’ somehow proving virility. This toxic and irresponsible advertising campaign is what Sandy Hook families sued Remington over, winning a $73 million settlement.

If boys and men really believe that they are proving their manhood but shooting defenseless animals with assault rifles, it’s no wonder so many boys and men are INCELs these days.

[TPFKA@W]

Personally I prefer to hunt deer with my car and have proven myself successful. Ask my insurance agent if you doubt me.

[liberty]

I am delighted by this thread. It is nicely salted with humor and personal experience. NO wild paranoia. Nobody screaming about something somebody did not actually post.. Dare I say it? Civil exchange of views?

The first AK47 I saw outside a gun store was in the back of a pickup truck in the middle of Kansas and used to shoot jackrabbits while bouncing over the prairie. Cheap military surplus gun and ammunition. Three guys with guns shooting from a bouncing box of an old pickup truck was scary. I sat right under the rear window of the cab and held on to the box.

Why am I against banning them? Because I have seen no proposal to ban them that would actually be effective. Now one can even make one with pretty raw materials and need not have the skills or equipment of a tool-and-die man. Just motivation. Might even be cheaper than buying one.

snailgate

My friend, my ex-team leader, has a computer-controlled CNC machine. The thing, as he describes it, is incredible. You can make almost anything out of metal, wood, plastic, or ceramic, and you don't have to be a machinist or very computer savvy; you only need the ability to follow instructions. It makes me think of the Star Trek replicator.

[Jarlaxle]

In 2014 a survey was done and results were 27% of hunters were using the AR platform to hunt.

Many hunters do not use modern rifles. Many deer are hunted with bows, shotguns, or BP muzzle-loaders. My old boss (shotgun) and his brother (bow and muzzle-loader) both hunt, but neither uses a rifle.

[Bicycle Bill]

Many hunters do not use modern rifles. Many deer are hunted with bows, shotguns, or BP muzzle-loaders. My old boss (shotgun) and his brother (bow and muzzle-loader) both hunt, but neither uses a rifle.

Exactly how are you defining "modern" rifles?  Must be "anything that was produced after the Berlin Wall fell".

If you look at the Winchester 1873 lever-action rifle, or the German-made Mauser Gewehr 98, there ain't a whole heck of a lot of difference between those items and a fresh-out-of-the-factory Henry lever-action or a Browning or Ruger bolt-action rifle you can buy at the gun store tomorrow morning other than maybe different calibers or better machining.  Heck, even semi-automatic weapons and machine guns have been around since before 1900.

I would argue that if it isn't a flintlock/matchlock or percussion cap muzzle-loader, or the rare breech-loader that DIDN'T use an all-in-one cartridge, it's a "modern" rifle, which leaves room for things like Grandpappy's old hand-me-down "heirloom" hunting firearms from the 1940s or earlier — just like you have "modern", "classic", "vintage", and "antique" cars.

-"BB"-

[Gob]

Personally I prefer to hunt deer with my car and have proven myself successful. Ask my insurance agent if you doubt me.

[Burning Petard]

Here in Delaware, it is illegal to hunt anything with a modern rifle. (legally defined as made since 1897) I don't know about muzzle loaders. The local deer hunters I know use bow and arrow. I don't do it, I have not hunted anything here but birds since I moved to Delaware in 1972.. And that was mostly to watch a good dog work. I was used to hunting rabbit and squirrel with a .22. It just did not seem right to me to go after them with a shotgun, just too likely to ruin too much meat for eating. My rifle shooting since then has been limited to paper targets or rifle hunting with local friends in New Mexico, Nebraska, Michigan, or Pennsylvania. I used a bolt action rifle for all of it

snailgate

[Jarlaxle]

Many hunters do not use modern rifles. Many deer are hunted with bows, shotguns, or BP muzzle-loaders. My old boss (shotgun) and his brother (bow and muzzle-loader) both hunt, but neither uses a rifle.

Exactly how are you defining "modern" rifles?  Must be "anything that was produced after the Berlin Wall fell".

Modern rifles, that can only be used to hunt in rifle season. (As opposed to a muzzle-loader.)

If you look at the Winchester 1873 lever-action rifle, or the German-made Mauser Gewehr 98, there ain't a whole heck of a lot of difference between those items and a fresh-out-of-the-factory Henry lever-action or a Browning or Ruger bolt-action rifle you can buy at the gun store tomorrow morning other than maybe different calibers or better machining.  Heck, even semi-automatic weapons and machine guns have been around since before 1900.

I would argue that if it isn't a flintlock/matchlock or percussion cap muzzle-loader, or the rare breech-loader that DIDN'T use an all-in-one cartridge, it's a "modern" rifle, which leaves room for things like Grandpappy's old hand-me-down "heirloom" hunting firearms from the 1940s or earlier — just like you have "modern", "classic", "vintage", and "antique" cars.

-"BB"-

Are you attempting to stumble upon a POINT?