Watch this documentary

[BoSoxGal]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=He3IJJhFy-I&rco=1

Then, let's discuss.

[Burning Petard]

OK. I have watched it. First reactions: the very last scene shows three boys on bikes (all with the seats way too low) riding in a suburban neighborhood, WITH NO CARS moving on the street. I cannot imagine a neighborhood that looks like that around here with NO car traffic. I was fascinated by the room with all the electronic music equipment, and the two parents and the two kids. The youngest child was always sitting next to the girl with the ripped jeans who was talking, saying things that moved the argument of the presentation forward powerfully. Yet the younger kid was there and watched her carefully or hid their own face while the girl spoke. Near the end the younger child finally said "I was so bored" but never anything else. All and all, it presented a strong argument that I recognized hit my bias confirmation buttons. I have no social media connections. My sister is married to a man that is the middle child of five boys. The oldest boy of that group of siblings is my age and I knew him when we were both members of the same boy scout troop. When I was about 25, that oldest brother of my future brother-in-law was arrested for making those notorious phones calls of that time--going to a public phone booth, dropping a dime in the slot (not a quarter, as this film said) and randomly calling numbers from the phone book that looked to be for a female, saying saying nothing when there was an answer, but heavy breathing. About two years ago my sister and her husband drove down to a federal prison in Louisiana when that older brother was released from federal prison. His full term was served for possession of child pornography. My sister called me about it. Her concern was that her husband and his family thought the prison term was unfair. After all Donald never DID anything with any child, he only accumulated this collection of pictures. He never MADE any pictures or sold anything. It was a victimless crime. My sister did not understand how her husband could feel that way. In my own mind, I said that whole family was a bunch of trailer trash. I did not tell my sister that. Her husband does have some good activities that makes their community a better place and generally does it without reward or recognition. And yet.

snailgate

[Sue U]

What struck me most was how much these apparently well-to-do suburban families had bought into the fear that it is unsafe to let their children roam the streets of their own neighborhoods/towns. And aside from the one girl who mentioned being an artist, it seemed the kids participated in no extra-curricular activities aside from "phone."

I agree that the all-consuming phone culture of "kids these days" presents a number dangers and can contribute to social maladjustment, particularly in the middle-school and early high school years -- when kids are most awkward, insecure and socially immature to begin with. I was a little surprised at the extent to which the kids in the film were invested in social media, but all of them seem to have had a pretty good understanding of their on-line world and seem to have come out relatively unscathed.

I'm not saying we were perfect parents or had any of this actually figured out by a longshot, particularly since smartphones were still relatively new when my kids were young (especially the boy-child). But when my kids were in middle and high school we talked with them a lot about responsible use of their phones and had rules about their use: no phones at the table or at family functions, no phones after bedtime (until sometime in mid high school). Were there issues with friend-groups and inappropriate online behavior? Of course. Tweens and teens are still largely idiots and prone to idiotic behavior. And middle-school mean girls are definitely still a thing. But I will say that soccer, baseball, softball, swim team, band, jazz band, chorus and religious school all helped my kids find a life beyond their phones and real-world communities for fun, belonging and mutual support.

[Burning Petard]

Society, the village, has an inherent duty to protect its children. Here in the USA this duty is heavily influenced by a deep value for individualism. But there is always a conflict among competing values and agendas in any group. The documentary presents a strong argument that the time children spend viewing or interacting with a screen are a clear and present danger. This is anecdotally confirmed in conversation with my daughter who has two adult children and a friend who is currently a public middle school teacher. Cyber bullying is both a risk and a hazard. Sexting is common among third graders. Twelve year-olds cannot judge the effects that comments and pictures on line may have 50 years from now. They CANNOT understand the life-long implications of being declared a sexual predator for only passing on what is legally child pornography. But we parents need to be able to know where are children are at any minute of every day. We cannot take away the children's phones. It would violate their freedoms; it would violate Elon Musk's right to make money.

Yet it is a major priority of many of our nation's legislators to prohibit "Drag Queens read to children" when there is zero evidence of harm to children from this activity. The only basis is the personal morality of the legislator. It may be destructive. I admit the possibility. Many children have a strong fear of clowns. Drag Queens easily could present similar fears. But I also see no actual indication of harm, beyond: I don't like it and I must interfere with the actions of parents who do not agree with me.

"A house divided against itself cannot stand." Any one who is not depressed has buried their head in the sand.

snailgate.

[Big RR]

Sexting is common among third graders

(and stopped)
Do you have a reference for that? I wonder what sort of "sexting" occurs among (or with) 8 year olds and would think it would be quite different from middle or high school sexting--maybe more like the doctor games many of us played at that age. Personally, while I think their toys change, I don't think the games change all that much. Bullying was fairly common when I was a kid, and when my dad was as well, as was playing we were older than we really were and any number of "show me" games. Yes, it makes it easy to make the bullying more widespread, and opens the door to some pedophiles. And overcharging is not new--remember the kindergarten kid who was charged with a sex crime (albeit as a juvenile) for pulling up a girl's (or maybe several girls') dresses? I recall some jerks doing that when I was a kid and the school handled it; now it's calling the cops and kids being charged with child porn for sending images on the phone (sometimes even of themselves). Don't get me wrong, I m not saying this is OK or boys being boys--but child pornography--punishing is not what that law had in mind. Taking away their phones will not solve anything.

That and parents getting their kids involved in other activities--sports, the arts...

[Burning Petard]

As the subject documentary argues, there is the difficult problem of intersectionality. Sexting, Bullying, Social Isolation and other particular indications of social problems will not be changed by the engineering tactic of breaking them down into separate smaller problems and attacking each one at a time. They all interact simultaneously with one another. The 'games' of doctor you played--were they recorded and transferred to a media that will be available to many people many years later? For many children, 8 years or 18 year olds-- the opinion of their peers is more important and more influential than the views of their parents. The 8 years olds are imitating the behavior they see and hear about among the glamorous older kids. Bullying was present before there were smart phones. But did any of the bullying precipitate a proccess of denigratinging an individual to the point of persuading the victim that they should kill themself? Is teen age suicide rate just a blip in modern life we need to just accept and move on? These electronic instructions to kill themself are sent and received during those sports and arts activities that Big RR advocates as the cure. The phone is in their pocket as they do the play rehearsal and sitting on the bench beside them during basketball.

snailgate.

[MajGenl.Meade]

The days are gone when schools had the moral authority to take care of problems like this. Now, in the main, the kids rule (not the decent ones), the parents refuse to hear of discipline and the authorities are hamstrung by leftist do-gooders who protect the villains and persecute the ones who might stand for just penalties against pig-ignorant thugs (and thugettes).

And it ain't gonna change back or get better. That horse is far from the barn. It gets worse from here on.

Ban damn cell phones from schools. We all went to school without phones for crying out loud and look how wonderfully well we turned out. Well, except for me and lib. And wesw.

[Big RR]

Ban damn cell phones from schools

They could try, but kids are pretty good at getting around that sort of rul; indeed, I recall there being a ring tome that could not be heard by people over 30 (when my kids were younger, and the kids just used that. Indeed, I recall listening to the world series (when it was played in the afternoon)in class with an earphone threaded up under my shirt; a lot of us did it. If we were caught we lost the radio for a day or week (then got it back) or, if it was a repeat one, our parents had to come in to pick it up.

But the big problem is that the use of phones at school is the tip of the iceberg--they'll use them when they get home.

As for discipline in the schools, I guess it depends on the administration. When my kids were younger, their schools enforced discipline, sometimes stupidly so (like punishing both parties in a fight, like it was a crime to fight back), others not so silly. I used to tell my kids that you have to observe the rules of the place where you are, even if you disagree with them, and accept the penalties (although I would tell them that does not always mean they did something wrong--I recall my daughter standing up for someone being bullied and getting a fight--she was punished in the school's one size fits all policy but I told her she did right; that reminds me of when my mother told me that even if the teacher was unfair to me (like one of my second grade teachers, I had to listen to her (within reason)). Not everyone did this, but the school stood firm in its rules.

[Big RR]

the 'games' of doctor you played--were they recorded and transferred to a media that will be available to many people many years later?

No, not that I am aware of, but if this sexting is as widespread as some claim, then no one will care if it is. face it, when I was a kid, I recall that being suspended or having something placed on your "permanent record" was a fate worse than death, but as it happened to a lot of us, it turned out no one really cares--this sort of photo will suffer the same fate if many have them online.

As for the bullying, kids have always been very cruel, and some kids left school and transferred elsewhere because of the bullying they received--some even moved away. We had xeroxed books called "Slam Books" where people wrote uncensored (and often untrue) comments on the pages about each person, and some were horrendous. I would venture to guess we all knew a victim or two--someone who just was never let alone, and it did affect some, while others rose above it and it groomed them for success. Sure, the online bullying can be more pervasive, but in some ways I would think it is easier to ignore--our phone even have ways to automatically block certain callers and I taught my kids how to do that.

Suicides--I am not sure; I recall a could of kids who died in auto accidents which were questionable (maybe on purpose?), but then when someone went away we generally had no way to remain in contact or even find out how they were.