Israel at War

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Sue U
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Re: Israel at War

Post by Sue U »

Not me, either. Have you been calling your congressional rep, Senators and the White House to demand they put a stop to it? "Stop funding Israel's genocide in Gaza. Put all available pressure on Netanyahu to end his immoral and obscene war." Call them every goddam day. (Call, don't email.) It literally takes less than ten minutes, and it's literally the least you can do.

ETA: Rav Danya's post/sermon today, in the lead-up to Tisha B'Av:
to Jews, on the Gaza famine
an open letter: we have been commanded

Rabbi Danya Ruttenberg
Jul 24, 2025 • 8 min read

Image

My beloved fellow Jews. Yidden. Hevre.

Please, can we talk?

Whether you feel conflicted, because even as you acknowledge the dire situation in Gaza, you're concerned that opening access to aid could allow weapons to be smuggled in that could also have consequences on the scale of mass death–

(as I've heard a few times on social media in the last days– )

Whether you might be nervous about speaking out in places where you might be able to have some impact–

Whether you might have hesitated to take action so far–

Whether or not that's because you're concerned that acknowledging the gravity of the situation give add ammo to antisemites–

Please:

At least read this, OK?

Nearly 100,000 women and children are suffering from severe acute malnutrition, and a third of Gaza’s population is going days without eating, according to Ross Smith, the U.N. World Food Program's director for emergencies.

43 people have died of malnutrition in the past week, most of them children.

And that the share of children suffering from severe malnutrition has jumped from 2.4 percent in February to 8.8 percent in the first two weeks of July.

We have Rabbinic terms for parsing some of your concerns: It is a matter of a safek/uncertain case versus a vedai/the certain case.

That is to say: It's possible that weapons might get smuggled in.

It's possible that– well, a lot of things are possible.

It's a certainty, an absolute objective fact that children are dying now.

Our refusal to look at the basics of Rabbinic logic underscore the same fact, again and again:

The Jewish people have moral frameworks for this moment.
It is a choice not to heed them.

  • The principle of saving lives is so important that one can not only violate Shabbat to do so, but one who is vigilant– who acts quickly to help– is called "praiseworthy." (Talmud Yoma 84b)
  • The whole reason (Talmud Bava Batra 8b) that redeeming hostages is such an urgent mitzvah is because it includes the risks of famine and death– horrors which must be avoided at all costs.
  • Our most authoritative law code says explicitly, in clear language, that if someone is hungry, you must feed them. (Shulchan Arukh, Yoreh De'ah 250:1)
It's never been ambiguous.

Rabbi Jill Jacobs, CEO of T'ruah: The Rabbinic Call for Human Rights wrote yesterday,
In private, I’ve heard many Jewish leaders and even more Jewish community members acknowledge their horror at what is happening in Gaza and the worsening onslaught of settler violence in the West Bank.... But in public, most of the current mainstream leadership presents a united front in which no criticism of the Israeli government or military will be tolerated.
And yet, more and more Israelis are demonstrating. The vast majority of the nation is desperate to end the war as soon as possible. More people are refusing to serve in the army.
Haaretz' lead editorial today– published on behalf of the whole editorial staff— begins, in clear language,
Gaza is starving, and Israel is responsible.
David Horovitz, the founder of the Times of Israel, just wrote a piece titled, "How Israel made itself responsible for Gaza, and for all the death, hunger and destruction there."

We in galut, diaspora, must be willing to be as clear-eyed.

We must meet this moment as the people we are supposed to be. We must show up in integrity. Everything else flows from that.

Do you not hear Heschel? Heschel who couldn't pray because he kept thinking about children being napalmed?

Rabbi Abraham Joshua Heschel wrote,
“Morally speaking, there is no limit to the concern one must feel for the suffering of human beings. Indifference to evil is worse than evil itself, [and] in a free society, some are guilty, but all are responsible.”
We are past the time time, my friends, that history has called for us, specifically, to rise to our obligations.

Jews of every kind and stripe and flavor and background, please. Every human of every kind, please. And most certainly "us," my colleagues and comrades-in-arms: rabbis and cantors and executive directors and program professionals and comms people and everybody connected to any synagogue or community or any anything, Jews, my people.

This cannot be our moment for silence. It. Cannot.

Please let us rise to meet this moment and see the shattered Temple around us, right now, and our responsibility to it.

In nine days we will sit on the floor and we will weep,

"Alas! Lonely sits the city

Once great with people!

She that was great among nations

Is become like a widow;"
(Lamentations 1:1)

Who will we weep for? What will we weep?

Who will we think of when we sing of the people who "sigh and search for bread," who have "bartered their treasures for food" (Lamentations 1:11), of the children asking their parents for food and dying in the city squares? (Lamentations 2:11-12?)

Let us meet this moment now. Right now.

Because if we don't– in fifty-nine days we will, what? Stand before God and ask God to forgive us?

Forgive us for –
For the children we have let die of hunger out of –

Can you stand before God and tell God coherent reasons why we let children die of hunger?

Do you have such audacity? I don't.

We are consistently commanded to prioritize care for those most marginalized – the widows, the orphans, the non-Jews who dwell in our midst.

We have been told to love our neighbor as ourselves– the greatest commandment, if you ask Rabbi Akiva.

Please, I beg you. If you have not: Go look at some real footage of those starving children, please go educate yourself about what is actually happening on the ground to the human beings happening there, and tell me that the uncertainty of a possibility takes precedence over the willful killing of children.

Please, I beg you. Our God commands us not to feed children to Molech. How could this be the Divine Will?

For me– well, my own theology is a longer conversation, but the moral stakes aren't.

Our obligations in this moment seem quite straightforward to me, frankly.

If you have any positional power whatsoever in the Jewish community– in an org, at a school, in a shul, on a board, in a rabbinic association, anywhere: Use it to demand that your community speak up and push towards political power.

Call your Senator and reps. (202) 224-3121

Donate if you can.

Our Rabbis taught, “Give sustenance to the poor of the non-Jews along with the poor of Israel. Visit the sick of the non-Jews along with the sick of Israel. Bury the dead of the non-Jews along with the dead of Israel. [Do all these things] because of the ways of peace.” (Talmud Gittin 61a)

“If a poor person asks for food and you do not give it to them, you are violating the mitzvah, 'Do not harden your heart and do not close your hand,’ (Deuteronomy 15:7)... You must immediately give them what they need.” (Maimonides, Mishneh Torah, Gifts to the Poor 7:2)

Do not stand by the blood of your neighbor;
I am God.

(Leviticus 19:16)

🌱❤️
Life Is A Sacred Text
GAH!

Burning Petard
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Re: Israel at War

Post by Burning Petard »

Thank you for posting this.

Snailgate

liberty
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Re: Israel at War

Post by liberty »

During the Black Hawk Down incident in Mogadishu, Somali militiamen used women and children as human shields while fighting American soldiers. As a result, women and children were killed. In your opinion, were the American soldiers who engaged in this action war criminals? A similar situation is unfolding in Gaza. Were The US soldiers war criminals? Ilhan Omar wants to know.
I expected to be placed in an air force combat position such as security police, forward air control, pararescue or E.O.D. I would have liked dog handler. I had heard about the dog Nemo and was highly impressed. “SFB” is sad I didn’t end up in E.O.D.

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BoSoxGal
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Re: Israel at War

Post by BoSoxGal »

liberty wrote:
Fri Jul 25, 2025 2:51 am
During the Black Hawk Down incident in Mogadishu, Somali militiamen used women and children as human shields while fighting American soldiers. As a result, women and children were killed. In your opinion, were the American soldiers who engaged in this action war criminals? A similar situation is unfolding in Gaza. Were The US soldiers war criminals? Ilhan Omar wants to know.
This has FUCK ALL to do with the intentional famine taking place in Gaza at the direction of Bibi Netanyahu and his genocidal government. They are withholding FOOD AID from CHILDREN and the IDF is intentionally gunning down starving Palestinians when they try to access FOOD AID - as many as 1000 Palestinians GUNNED DOWN at food aid centers trying to collect FOOD.
For me, it is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring.
~ Carl Sagan

liberty
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Re: Israel at War

Post by liberty »

BoSoxGal wrote:
Fri Jul 25, 2025 12:45 pm
liberty wrote:
Fri Jul 25, 2025 2:51 am
During the Black Hawk Down incident in Mogadishu, Somali militiamen used women and children as human shields while fighting American soldiers. As a result, women and children were killed. In your opinion, were the American soldiers who engaged in this action war criminals? A similar situation is unfolding in Gaza. Were The US soldiers war criminals? Ilhan Omar wants to know.
This has FUCK ALL to do with the intentional famine taking place in Gaza at the direction of Bibi Netanyahu and his genocidal government. They are withholding FOOD AID from CHILDREN and the IDF is intentionally gunning down starving Palestinians when they try to access FOOD AID - as many as 1000 Palestinians GUNNED DOWN at food aid centers trying to collect FOOD.
If you remember, what prompted the Black Hawk Down incident was the Somali warlord Idid hijacking U.S. emergency food shipments. The U.S. had a choice: they could continue to let him hijack the shipments, try to stop him, or leave the country and take their supplies with them. However, the military attempted to arrest him in hopes of persuading him to stop his people from stealing the food. That decision led to the tragic loss of lives, as the attempt was interrupted when a Black Hawk helicopter was shot down, and everything went sideways.

A similar situation seems to be unfolding in Gaza. Israel does not want the UN involved because they suspect that UN personnel may be smuggling contraband to Hamas, a possibility that prompted Israel to establish its own humanitarian aid program. Naturally, Hamas wants access to food supplies, and naturally, Israel wants to deny those supplies to Hamas. In response, Hamas is attempting to loot or disrupt food supplies, potentially provoking casualties that can be used as propaganda. Sadly, many in the West appear to be influenced by this narrative.

Considering the war crimes Hamas is accused of, I believe that Israel should set up a camp in the desert akin to Nuremberg, and name it Nuremberg, where captured Hamas leaders would stand trial. If found guilty, they would be executed by hanging, as happened at the original Nuremberg Trials.
I expected to be placed in an air force combat position such as security police, forward air control, pararescue or E.O.D. I would have liked dog handler. I had heard about the dog Nemo and was highly impressed. “SFB” is sad I didn’t end up in E.O.D.

Burning Petard
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Re: Israel at War

Post by Burning Petard »

Mr. Liberty your remind me of our own nation's war of extermination, when the leadership agreed that 'the only good indian is a dead indian'.

You speak of Hamas as if the IDF was checking id cards or something to find Hamas. Meanwhile the commanders of the IDF, right up to the top civilian, are acting as if the military objective is to eliminate the power of Hamas by killing everyone, not even making exception for female infants. See Matthew 2:16 for description of similar actions by the legally recognized political leader,

snailgate.

liberty
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Re: Israel at War

Post by liberty »

Burning Petard wrote:
Sat Jul 26, 2025 4:14 pm
Mr. Liberty your remind me of our own nation's war of extermination, when the leadership agreed that 'the only good indian is a dead indian'.

You speak of Hamas as if the IDF was checking id cards or something to find Hamas. Meanwhile the commanders of the IDF, right up to the top civilian, are acting as if the military objective is to eliminate the power of Hamas by killing everyone, not even making exception for female infants. See Matthew 2:16 for description of similar actions by the legally recognized political leader,

snailgate.
There is no reasoning with a zealot. A fanatic is going to believe what he wants to believe. If you choose to believe that Jews are evil people, that is your prerogative. However, ask yourself this question: what would you do if you were in their place? I fear we might find ourselves there someday.
I expected to be placed in an air force combat position such as security police, forward air control, pararescue or E.O.D. I would have liked dog handler. I had heard about the dog Nemo and was highly impressed. “SFB” is sad I didn’t end up in E.O.D.

Big RR
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Re: Israel at War

Post by Big RR »

Who is saying jews are evil? Despite the fact that I think "evil" is a ridiculous adjective which conjures up comic books and action movies, I think the criticism is and has been of the Israeli government and their policies. Do those jerks speak for all jews? Of course not; but you have to turn it into a racial issue as opposed to attacking a foreign government (and one that gets a lot of support from the US).

Is criticism of Putin also criticism of all Russians? Or criticism of Trump a criticism of all Americans?

Please. :roll:

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Sue U
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Re: Israel at War

Post by Sue U »

I would have posted the NYT story the other day, but paywall and also NYT.
IDF Officials Say No Evidence Hamas Systematically Stole UN Aid in Gaza, NYT Reports

'For months, we and other organizations were dragged through the mud,' said a former UN official, after Israeli military sources told the New York Times there's no evidence Hamas systematically stole UN aid – contradicting Netanyahu's repeated claims

Haaretz
Jul 26, 2025

Senior Israeli military officials told the New York Times they never found proof that Hamas systematically stole humanitarian aid from the United Nations in Gaza – contradicting claims by the Israeli government that formed the basis for blocking aid deliveries for months.

According to two senior IDF officers and two other Israelis involved in the matter, the UN's aid distribution system, which Israel had criticized and sought to replace, was "largely effective in providing food to Gaza's desperate and hungry population."

"For nearly two years, Israel has accused Hamas of stealing aid," the report states, adding that "the government has used that claim as its main rationale for restricting food from entering Gaza."
Source: Haaretz.

Israel has already lost this war. It has brought its entire military might to bear on Gaza relentlessly for 22 months and still has not snuffed out Hamas. And it will not, it cannot, because resistance to Israel, the occupation and the blockade is all that is left for the Palestinians, and Israel's war has now made Hamas the avatar of their continued survival.
GAH!

liberty
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Re: Israel at War

Post by liberty »

Sue U wrote:
Mon Jul 28, 2025 7:13 pm
I would have posted the NYT story the other day, but paywall and also NYT.
IDF Officials Say No Evidence Hamas Systematically Stole UN Aid in Gaza, NYT Reports

'For months, we and other organizations were dragged through the mud,' said a former UN official, after Israeli military sources told the New York Times there's no evidence Hamas systematically stole UN aid – contradicting Netanyahu's repeated claims

Haaretz
Jul 26, 2025

Senior Israeli military officials told the New York Times they never found proof that Hamas systematically stole humanitarian aid from the United Nations in Gaza – contradicting claims by the Israeli government that formed the basis for blocking aid deliveries for months.

According to two senior IDF officers and two other Israelis involved in the matter, the UN's aid distribution system, which Israel had criticized and sought to replace, was "largely effective in providing food to Gaza's desperate and hungry population."

"For nearly two years, Israel has accused Hamas of stealing aid," the report states, adding that "the government has used that claim as its main rationale for restricting food from entering Gaza."
Source: Haaretz.

Israel has already lost this war. It has brought its entire military might to bear on Gaza relentlessly for 22 months and still has not snuffed out Hamas. And it will not, it cannot, because resistance to Israel, the occupation and the blockade is all that is left for the Palestinians, and Israel's war has now made Hamas the avatar of their continued survival.
If Hamas survives as an organization, they will continue to kill Jews. In response, the Israelis will continue to try to destroy Hamas. Hamas, in turn, will continue to use the people of Gaza as human shields and starve babies for propaganda.

The babies who are starving are suffering because Hamas will not allow them to receive food, not because they couldn't get food to them. Some children have been removed from Hamas’s control for medical treatment. Those babies can be taken out of Hamas’s grip in order to receive proper care, but Hamas won’t allow it. They want the babies to starve so that simple-minded people can be manipulated. I have no respect for people who are so easily manipulated.

Interestingly, I am not Jewish, but I am willing to treat Jewish people more fairly than you, even though you are Jewish. And I say that despite having no personal stake in the outcome, other than the principle that everyone deserves to be treated equally.
I expected to be placed in an air force combat position such as security police, forward air control, pararescue or E.O.D. I would have liked dog handler. I had heard about the dog Nemo and was highly impressed. “SFB” is sad I didn’t end up in E.O.D.

Big RR
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Re: Israel at War

Post by Big RR »

Interesting, Israel will destroy (or try to destroy) Hamas; Hamas will not attack Israel, but Jews. Doesn't appear you are treating everyone equally, just trying to stir things up; Israel is facing a political foe, Hamas is just trying to pursue a racist agenda. Sure :roll:

Reminds me of this:

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/hurri ... a-looters/
Last edited by Big RR on Wed Jul 30, 2025 1:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Sue U
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Re: Israel at War

Post by Sue U »

liberty wrote:
Tue Jul 29, 2025 4:24 am
If Hamas survives as an organization, they will continue to kill Jews. In response, the Israelis will continue to try to destroy Hamas. Hamas, in turn, will continue to use the people of Gaza as human shields and starve babies for propaganda.
They said the same about Fatah and the PLO, and now they run the Palestinian Authority. The propaganda you are willfully swallowing is that Palestinians are inhuman monsters who would see their children starved and their families wiped out ... for what, exactly? It's not Hamas that's shooting people seeking food at aid stations, or destroying municipal infrastructure, or bulldozing cities, or bombing displaced persons camps.
liberty wrote:
Tue Jul 29, 2025 4:24 am
Interestingly, I am not Jewish, but I am willing to treat Jewish people more fairly than you, even though you are Jewish. And I say that despite having no personal stake in the outcome, other than the principle that everyone deserves to be treated equally.
As an American I have the right to criticize the recipients of my country's military and economic aid and the US government officials who dole it out. As a Zionist I have a duty to protest the policies and acts of the Israeli government that are destroying the movement and its mission. As a Jew I have a moral obligation to not turn a blind eye to injustice -- not only in my local community, but with respect to other Jews as Am Yisrael, and particularly those who receive support from me both directly and indirectly as an American, a Zionist and a Jew. So you can kindly fuck off with how "fairly" you are "willing to treat Jewish people."
GAH!

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Re: Israel at War

Post by Joe Guy »

....So you can kindly fuck off with how "fairly" you are "willing to treat Jewish people.
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liberty
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Re: Israel at War

Post by liberty »

Sue U wrote:
Tue Jul 29, 2025 6:40 pm
liberty wrote:
Tue Jul 29, 2025 4:24 am
If Hamas survives as an organization, they will continue to kill Jews. In response, the Israelis will continue to try to destroy Hamas. Hamas, in turn, will continue to use the people of Gaza as human shields and starve babies for propaganda.
They said the same about Fatah and the PLO, and now they run the Palestinian Authority. The propaganda you are willfully swallowing is that Palestinians are inhuman monsters who would see their children starved and their families wiped out ... for what, exactly? It's not Hamas that's shooting people seeking food at aid stations, or destroying municipal infrastructure, or bulldozing cities, or bombing displaced persons camps.
liberty wrote:
Tue Jul 29, 2025 4:24 am
Interestingly, I am not Jewish, but I am willing to treat Jewish people more fairly than you, even though you are Jewish. And I say that despite having no personal stake in the outcome, other than the principle that everyone deserves to be treated equally.
As an American I have the right to criticize the recipients of my country's military and economic aid and the US government officials who dole it out. As a Zionist I have a duty to protest the policies and acts of the Israeli government that are destroying the movement and its mission. As a Jew I have a moral obligation to not turn a blind eye to injustice -- not only in my local community, but with respect to other Jews as Am Yisrael, and particularly those who receive support from me both directly and indirectly as an American, a Zionist and a Jew. So you can kindly fuck off with how "fairly" you are "willing to treat Jewish people."
It’s not just Jews that I treat fairly; I do the same for everyone, whether they’re Nazis or angels. Hell, I think I even extend to animals. When I was young, I was abused, brutalized, and treated unfairly. By all rights, I should be the type to do those things to others, but I’m not.
I expected to be placed in an air force combat position such as security police, forward air control, pararescue or E.O.D. I would have liked dog handler. I had heard about the dog Nemo and was highly impressed. “SFB” is sad I didn’t end up in E.O.D.

Big RR
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Re: Israel at War

Post by Big RR »

Good for you in not doing "those things"; but there are many who do, and they are not limited to one side of the political spectrum or one side of any dispute. Try looking at things fairly instead of through a political lens; join with Sue in not turning a blind eye to injustice and don't let your prejudices color the analysis.

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Re: Israel at War

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A very good conversation between two menschen.

For me, it is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring.
~ Carl Sagan

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Re: Israel at War

Post by BoSoxGal »

Is Bibi Netanyahu mentally ill? Is he a psychopath? Does he harbor a secret desire to harm his own people by destroying global good will toward them?

I just cannot fathom the reasoning behind continuing to defend these outcomes:
IMG_2831.jpeg
‘We are dying slowly, save us’: starvation takes hold in Gaza after a week of appalling milestones
For me, it is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring.
~ Carl Sagan

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