We can't win

[Lord Jim]

I tell you that I'm not dictatorial, I'm not intolerant, I'm not overpowering! You're all wrong, wrong, wrong, I tell you! I'm the most relaxed and understanding of people! None of you, I insist, must ever say I'm dictatorial again!

I'm familiar with the quote; it was Chamberlain...

[liberty]

No Rub, the Russians won the winter war Finland lost better that 10 percent of their territory. They did humiliate the Russians by forcing then to pay a high price for their victory. But humiliating an enemy is no substitute for victory and could be counterproductive.

War with the Russians in Syria would be a good thing. With our superior air and sea launch capability and the Russians operating out their environment we would most likely win and that would feed the Russian’s inferiority complex and discourage future adventures. But if we humiliated them it could backfire by making them more aggressive and determined to prove themselves.

[ex-khobar Andy]

War with the Russians in Syria would be a good thing.

You know lib, sometimes I think that you are a sensitive and intelligent soul who is just plain wrong about most things. Maybe that's my Christian upbringing peeping through: forgiveness, understanding, trying to see the world through another's eyes, that sort of thing. And then you say that.

War with the Russians in Syria would never be a Good Thing. Not for us, not for the Russians, not for the Syrians, not for the human race. Never. (I might agree with you if I were a cockroach.) On an idiocy scale of 1 to 10 you are up there on rung 11 with your man Trump. Please come back down.

[rubato]

The Finns won their continued independence, the greater goal. Thus the war. The Russians ineptness and poor leadership cost them the war. Your "supermen" were hopeless then and now. As we have seen, Russia has lost many wars.

yrs,
rubato

[liberty]

War with the Russians in Syria would be a good thing.

You know lib, sometimes I think that you are a sensitive and intelligent soul who is just plain wrong about most things. Maybe that's my Christian upbringing peeping through: forgiveness, understanding, trying to see the world through another's eyes, that sort of thing. And then you say that.

War with the Russians in Syria would never be a Good Thing. Not for us, not for the Russians, not for the Syrians, not for the human race. Never. (I might agree with you if I were a cockroach.) On an idiocy scale of 1 to 10 you are up there on rung 11 with your man Trump. Please come back down.

Well Ex you are a good person, but you are also a good example of why liberals should not be in the military or perhaps surgeons. War is a meat grinder and those who cannot compartmentalize their thinking should not be in any position of responsibility. In war, for one to die so that ten can live is a good thing. When I was on active duty, some of the most intelligent and human individuals I ever knew were commanders and other military leaders. They liked me and I respected them but any one of them could have sent me to my death if it had been necessary and I wouldn’t have held it against them. If you can’t think like that you don’t belong in the military or at least the professional force you might be ok as a draftee where someone else can do your thinking.

[Big RR]

but lib, andy wasn't talking about how to fight a war, but whether fighting it would be in our interest--and he contends in Syria it would not. Vietnam showed us how ridiculous fighting a war with no real objective in mind is, Iraq 2 and Afghanistan as well. If you want to demand the ultimate sacrifice from your troops, you must at least give them something to sacrifice for. And entering into a war in Syria falls far short of that.

[MajGenl.Meade]

They liked me and I respected them but any one of them could have sent me to my death if it had been necessary and I wouldn’t have held it against them.

[liberty]

This was my first career field; I was a radar technician:

The Battle of Lima Site 85, also called Battle of Phou Pha Thi, was fought as part of a military campaign waged during the Vietnam War and Laotian Civil War by the North Vietnamese army and the Pathet Lao, against airmen of the United States Air Force 1st Combat Evaluation Group, elements of the Royal Lao Army, Royal Thai Border Patrol Police, and the Central Intelligence Agency-led Hmong Clandestine Army. The battle was fought on Phou Pha Thi mountain in Houaphanh Province, Laos, on 10 March 1968, and derives its name from the mountaintop where it was fought or from the designation of a 700 feet (210 m) landing strip in the valley below, and was the largest single ground combat loss of United States Air Force members during the Vietnam War.

During the Vietnam War and the Laotian Civil War, Phou Pha Thi mountain was an important strategic outpost which had served both sides at various stages of the conflict. In 1966, the United States Ambassador to Laos approved a plan by the United States Air Force (USAF) to construct a TACAN site on top of Phou Pha Thi, as at the time they lacked a navigation site with sufficient range to guide U.S. bombers towards their targets in North Vietnam. In 1967 the site was upgraded with the air-transportable all-weather AN/TSQ-81 radar bombing control system. This enabled American aircraft to bomb North Vietnam and Laos at night and in all types of weather, an operation code-named Commando Club. Despite U.S. efforts to maintain the secrecy of the installation, which included the "sheep-dipping" of the airmen involved, U.S. operations at the facility did not escape the attention of the North Vietnamese and Pathet Lao forces.
Towards the end of 1967, North Vietnamese units increased the tempo of their operations around Phou Pha Thi, and by 1968 several attacks were launched against Lima Site 85. In the final assault on 10 March 1968, elements of the VPA 41st Special Forces Battalion attacked the facility, with support from the VPA 766th Regiment and one Pathet Lao battalion. The Hmong and Thai forces that were defending the facility were overwhelmed by the combined North Vietnamese and Pathet Lao forces.

[rubato]

They liked me and I respected them but any one of them could have sent me to my death if it had been necessary and I wouldn’t have held it against them.

Only if they could find a useful purpose for a radar technician with a risk greater than a paper cut. a mental exercise which no commissioned officer ever met.


yrs,
rubato

[Joe Guy]

Liberty

[liberty]

Liberty

What did you do in the Cold War? I admit it wasn’t Combat arms but we did lose people. My additional duty was as a security police augmente.

I never was much of a fan of Teddy I liked Winnie the Pooh and Paddington bear.

[dales]

I don't know what Joe Guy did during "the cold war" but during the Viet Nam era I got lucky.

The draft lottery...….

I was classified 1A but due to my birthday (AUG 27) my draft number was 352, so there was very little chance of me being called.

By 1973 things were winding down, anyway.

If it looked like I was going to be drafted, I would have enlisted for a 4-year hitch in the USN and be done with it.

[MajGenl.Meade]

I was luckier - being English 'n all.

Hey lib - if you are going to lift chunks out of Wikipedia, why not (a) put it in quotes at least and (b) give credit?

[Scooter]

This was my first career field; I was a radar technician

Funny how what he purportedly did in Vietnam changes every time he tells it.

[Burning Petard]

Sept 26 1918

https://www.yahoo.com/finance/news/100- ... 31115.html


PARIS (AP) — It was America's deadliest battle ever, with 26,000 U.S. soldiers killed, tens of thousands wounded and more ammunition fired than in the whole of the Civil War. The Meuse-Argonne offensive of 1918 was also a great American victory that helped bringing an end to World War 1. . . . .

Pershing said "the success stands out as one of the very great achievements in the history of American arms.”. . . .

At the cemetery, eight wide grave sections with long regular rows of crosses stretch between the trees on the gentle slopes of a hill. On top is a chapel where the names of 954 missing American soldiers, whose bodies were never found or identified, are engraved.

More than six thousand uniformed US military have died in Afghanistan since Nine-Eleven. I guess we must be winning.

snailgate

[liberty]

BSG likes to point out the larger population of the US as compared to Russia, but what she doesn’t understand is that the population difference is irrelevant. Any war between Russia and the US would not be a war of nations. On one side there would be the US military about two million members and on the other side 150 million Russian men, women and children. Our military would be out numbered about 75 to 1. If you are thinking that young Americans would rush to enlist or submit to the draft you are a fool. Remember Vietnam and Iraq. And the few that would enter the military would be worthless; they would take forever to train and would be more of a danger to other Americans than the Russians. I remember a joke by a black comedian that went something like this: I was in the military I wanted to go for twenty, but then there was a war. I think that sums up the American military spirit; for all practical purposes it doesn’t exist. And you are too stupid to do anything about it.

[RayThom]

... I remember a joke by a black comedian that went something like this: I was in the military I wanted to go for twenty, but then there was a war...

I don't quite get the joke. Maybe if I had some context... who was this "black" comedian?

[ex-khobar Andy]

I didn't get it either, Ray. In his world, 'black comedian' usually refers to Barack Obama, but that didn't help me.

[Burning Petard]

I think the implied context is that black individuals will volunteer for military service, but do not want to serve in an actual war.
However, when I was in basic training during a hiatus in actual shooting wars, there were lots of black enlisted men around me with hershey bars on their right sleeves. Each bar denotes six months in a combat zone. Most of them also had a slim horizontal blue badge with a musket on it and a wreath around it, worn above their left pocket. This indicates actual exposure time with bullets intentionally flying in their direction, also known as the combat infantryman badge.

As usual, our village idiot reveals his depth of personal knowledge.

snailgate

[liberty]

I think the implied context is that black individuals will volunteer for military service, but do not want to serve in an actual war.
However, when I was in basic training during a hiatus in actual shooting wars, there were lots of black enlisted men around me with hershey bars on their right sleeves. Each bar denotes six months in a combat zone. Most of them also had a slim horizontal blue badge with a musket on it and a wreath around it, worn above their left pocket. This indicates actual exposure time with bullets intentionally flying in their direction, also known as the combat infantryman badge.

As usual, our village idiot reveals his depth of personal knowledge.

snailgate

Well Mr. Mother Fucker I was referring to the society in general, but since you brought it up blacks are underrepresented in combat arms about 3 or 5 of their military population. Exactly why that is the case I don’t think anyone can say for sure. It just might be the politically correct but military leaders tend to say that is caused by the desire of black recruits to obtain civilian applicable vocational skills.. If that was the case it would seem that there would near zero reenlistment for blacks in the military. In that case we would have heard about it.

And your Vietnam era example is useless since then there was a draft then and a draft now is not possibly.


https://apps.dtic.mil/dtic/tr/fulltext/u2/a499283.pdf


...
In particular, Blacks are under - represented among the combat arms. This condition can be termed occupational segregation. The U.S. Army's
leadership is concerned about the low number of Black officers serving in the combat arms for two reasons. First, the low number of Blacks in the combat arms reduces the diversity and perhaps the credibility of the U.S. Army’s leadership. Second, it makes it difficult for Blacks to attain
appropriate representation among general officers because seventy-
two percent of the U.S. Armys generals are selected from the combat arms.
—
Emmett E. Burke
“Black Officer Under representation in Combat Arms Branches”
School of Advanced Military Studies
2002