Opinion | Op-Ed Columnist
Repeal the Second Amendment
Let us say for the sake of argument that the 2nd. Amendment is repealed.
There are over 300 million firearms out there.
What about those?
If we allowed the same argument for air pollution and water pollution we would not have a cleaner environment today. Many guns are recovered by police across the country every year. Unfortunately I could not find an overall number for the entire US. But appropriate changes in the law and in the financial consequences of failing to secure a gun can surely incentivise people to choose not to keep guns and increase the rate of collection.
300 million guns in the hands of civilians (perhaps) The 2nd Amendment is repealed and what happens to all those guns?
NOTHING.
All the laws on the books, at the local, state, and federal level would still be in force. However, there might just be a grand sweep of new laws at every level that would be considered on their own merit--do they enhance our society? Without regard to some constitutional right to this particular form of personal property. Might actually look to what works in reality
rubato wrote:Early reports hat it that the WH is favoring outlawing bumpstocks but we will see. I don't see how a device which turns a semiautomatic rifle into out which fires like an automatic could have been legal in the first place. If it shoots like an automatic it is one.
yrs,
rubato
Talk to F-troop...they explicitly approved the bump stock as legal. Also note: bump-firing a rifle CAN be done without a bump stock.
The BATF ruled that they cannot regulate 'bump stocks' because they are not actually part of the firearm mechanism.
Fine. Give the issue to Consumer Affairs. Ban it as a dangerous product like Lawn Jarts.. No new law or even new regulation required.
(Lawn Jarts did not kill 50 + people in ten minutes)
The cops never went around with co2 sniffers looking at everyone's exhaust pipe.
Even in a draconian world of cops going around kicking in every door in every American residence, not even a fraction of firearms would be recovered.
No one is even suggesting that -- it is simply a terrifying strawman for those unable to think beyond their penile-inadequacy-compensation device. Repealing the Second Amendment doesn't make owning guns illegal and doesn't authorize the U.S. Department of Gun-Grabbin' to kick in anyone's door.
At its most basic level, the problem here, as I keep saying, is too many guns too readily available. If you require licensing and safety training for all gun owners and annual registration, safe storage and liability insurance for all firearms, coupled with a buy-back program for unwanted weapons, you will naturally decrease the sheer number of guns in circulation. If the 2d Amendment were repealed, state and local governments could decide for themselves what regulation fits the needs of their own citizens, whether it's limiting the number of guns you can register or the types of guns that can be owned or the kind of safety features that must be incorporated into products sold in the state.
Burning Petard wrote:The BATF ruled that they cannot regulate 'bump stocks' because they are not actually part of the firearm mechanism.
Fine. Give the issue to Consumer Affairs. Ban it as a dangerous product like Lawn Jarts.. No new law or even new regulation required.
(Lawn Jarts did not kill 50 + people in ten minutes)
snailgate.
They will still be readily available, because they are not difficult to make.
I have numerous gun loving friends. It comes with the territory of being a veteran myself, and hanging around motorsports. So a lot of them are pretty hard core Republicans, or at least quite anti-Democrat.
It may be "compensating" but people who like there guns do tend to see them as toys. No different than their ATVs, Lifted 4X4s, Snowmobiles, speedboats, etc. All things originally designed with a certain purpose but are now used for fun. I have my 4X4s and fast boats. It's my way of living life rather than just surviving it.
Oh, they will justify their guns for "home protection" but really it's about going out on the range and scattering brass. I've done it. I've fired an AR-15, and it was fun. Or it's true military counterpart, the M16. Nothing like watching your paper target pretty much evaporate on full auto.
So they see any repeal of the 2nd amendment, or a rewrite, as the first step in taking that away. Take registering guns. They don't want it because if the Government knows what you have, if the decide it's no longer legal, they come right to you. "You have X days to turn it it."
They see that if Gun ownership is no longer a right but a privilege, it can be taken away. Doesn't have to be the US Govt. Take an example. In 2004 I bought a boat. I registered the boat, and took it out on the lake. I was fully legal, followed the Coast Guard rules, etc.
In 2009 I was no longer allowed to operate the boat legally in State of Washington waters. I did nothing wrong. I was never cited, never broke a law. The State decided that everyone born on or after Jan 1 1955 would be required to take a boater safety course and acquire a boater id card. Because boating is a privilege, the law was changed by the State legislature without a public vote. Of course, eventually I took the class and got my boater education card.
But they see that as Infringing.
My Grandfather kept guns for home protection. Loaded pistols hidden in the chairs, in the rafters, in closets, you name it. When he was going into dementia my Uncle cleared the house of guns, at least the ones he could find, except my grandmother's .22 short rifle, which she kept loaded (and chambered) in her armoire. I unloaded it a few years ago at her behest because she had great-grandkids over weekly, but she forgot why and still complains about it not being at the ready anymore. That's just how it was, and that same thought pattern is ingrained. People rebelled against seat belt laws and helmet laws too. I don't think I know anyone who drives on public roads that follows speed limits 100% of the time. It's part of our culture.
Do I think it's a problem? Yes. Do I think there's an easy solution? No. At least not one that will pass the American People's scrutiny.
Death is Nature's way of telling you to slow down.
Maybe they should turn things like AR-15s, bump stocks, and large-capacity quick-change magazines over to the purview of the Consumer Product Safety Commission. Then the CPSC can declare them to be a hazard to public safety and ban them as they did those evil lawn darts — a product, I might add, that throughout its entire existence didn't kill as many people as did the guns, bump stocks, and high-capacity quick-change magazines in the hands of one madman in Las Vegas last Sunday night. -"BB"-
Yes, I suppose I could agree with you ... but then we'd both be wrong, wouldn't we?
"Stephen Paddock was a life time registered democrat and outspoken TRUMP hater"
Soon, I’ll post my farewell message. The end is starting to get close. There are many misconceptions about me, and before I go, to live with my ancestors on the steppes, I want to set the record straight.
liberty wrote:"Stephen Paddock was a life time registered democrat and outspoken TRUMP hater"
Yes, that's exactly what FOX News and Breitbart has been pushing, however, and typical of these bullshit "news" organizations, there isn't a whit of evidence at this point to substantiate such a statement. Merely wishful thinking by limited, alt-right minds.
Joe Guy wrote:Well then, now we know that someone said that a mass murderer didn't like Trump. That certainly is helpful information.
What would be helpful information?
This is what it would mean if it is true:
There are at least two America in this country and it is ok and in the minds of L Fs to attack, beat up and or kill one. The people attacked, CW fans, are my people not yours. Should Red Staters retaliate? The culture war has become violent and so far the violence is on the left.
Soon, I’ll post my farewell message. The end is starting to get close. There are many misconceptions about me, and before I go, to live with my ancestors on the steppes, I want to set the record straight.
liberty wrote:There are at least two America in this country and it is ok and in the minds of L Fs (whatinthehell is a 'L F' supposed to be?) to attack, beat up and or kill one. The people attacked, CW fans, are my people not yours. Should Red Staters retaliate? The culture war has become violent and so far the violence is on the left.
liberty, you are so full of crap that when you die, instead of embalming you the undertaker should give you an enema. Once all the shit is out of you they will be able to bury you in an empty Marlboro carton. -"BB"-
Yes, I suppose I could agree with you ... but then we'd both be wrong, wouldn't we?
liberty wrote:"Stephen Paddock was a life time registered democrat and outspoken TRUMP hater"
"Lib, could you please post a source for this?"
ETA:
The people attacked, CW fans, are my people not yours.
Lib, there's significant evidence that Paddock scouted out other possible venues that had nothing to do with country music. His prime motivation seems to have been to select a big-attendance target where he could get a vantage point for the killing that would enable him to inflict the maximum number of casualties:
Las Vegas Gunman Scouted Locations in Boston and Chicago, Officials Say
The gunman who massacred dozens in Las Vegas researched possible attack locations in Boston and Chicago, multiple senior law enforcement officials briefed on the investigation told NBC News.
Stephen Paddock's potential targets included the most recent Lollapalooza festival in Chicago, which was held Aug. 3 to Aug. 6 in Grant Park, the officials said. Paddock, 64, went as far as booking a room in a Chicago hotel but did not show up, the officials said. Among the thousands of people who attended the festival was Malia Obama, daughter of former President Barack Obama.
Paddock also did online research on hotels around Boston's Fenway Park, a senior law enforcement official with direct knowledge of the matter said. Most hotels in the area, however, have an obstructed view of Fenway — or no view at all.
The FBI and Boston police have been in touch since Wednesday on information tying Stephen Paddock's web searches to the city, Boston law enforcement officials said.
And Boston Police Commissioner William Evans has talked to Boston Red Sox officials to ensure that playoff games this weekend would have extra police resources in and around the ballpark. Some of those resources will be visible and some of those resources will be undercover, the official said.
The Boston Police said in a statement that there was no threat to any venue in the city, including Fenway Park.
Officials also said that Paddock searched for the Boston Center for the Arts.
There is no indication Paddock ever traveled to Boston or Chicago, the officials said.
The officials stressed that investigators still do not know Paddock's motive behind the Las Vegas shooting, in which he fired from a 32nd floor hotel room onto a country music festival Sunday night, killing 58 people and injuring 489. Investigators are trying to understand what the Chicago and Boston research was all about.
Authorities are also investigating whether Paddock rented several units at a luxury high-rise overlooking a bigger music festival, called Life Is Beautiful, the weekend before Sunday's slaughter, a law enforcement source said.
Joe Guy wrote:Well then, now we know that someone said that a mass murderer didn't like Trump. That certainly is helpful information.
What would be helpful information?
This is what it would mean if it is true:
There are at least two America in this country and it is ok and in the minds of L Fs to attack, beat up and or kill one. The people attacked, CW fans, are my people not yours. Should Red Staters retaliate? The culture war has become violent and so far the violence is on the left.
What Jim just said up there in the first sentence of his last post, and what Ray said in the first sentence of his last post (yesterday).
Also, there are tens of millions of registered Democrats and outspoken Trump haters, including many in the so-called "Red States", many country music fans (including myself), and many right here on this very forum. *NONE* of them are okay with what Stephen Paddock did, and *NONE* of them have any more idea than you or I do of why he did what he did.
People who are wrong are just as sure they're right as people who are right. The only difference is, they're wrong.
— God@The Tweet of God
The Los Vegas Massacre was done by an outspoken Trump hater? That's news to me. Every story I have read from people who actually had personal contact with him have been pretty consistent that he was not out spoken about anything. The big problem was getting him to say a few words about anything beyond the immediate business he was conducting.
