Plan B Forum

ex-khobar Andy wrote: Again I have no clue what you are getting at here.[/b]

[/quote]


It is not complex it boils down to this: The US can win no war that can’t be won by its professional military. It is an outstanding army but a mission like Russia it just too much to handle without civilian help. And there would be very few rushing to enlist. Without tactical nukes there Is nothing we can do about the Russians but make them pay a price for their victory and in the end that would be bad idea. Remember what happen to the German woman after WWII. Of course I could be wrong, as far as I know, there could be government warehouses filled with hundreds of thousands of combat ready robot soldiers, but I doubt it. That would be immoral.

The anti-war liberals of the Vietnam era wanted a pacifist America and they got it.

The anti-war liberals of the Vietnam era wanted a pacifist America and they got it.

Yeah....Other than ANGOLA l976-92 Command operation CIA assists South African-backed rebels. IRAN l980 Troops, nuclear threat, aborted bombing Raid to rescue Embassy hostages; 8 troops die in copter-plane crash. Soviets warned not to get involved in revolution. LIBYA l981 Naval jets Two Libyan jets shot down in maneuvers. EL SALVADOR l981-92 Command operation, troops Advisors, overflights aid anti-rebel war, soldiers briefly involved in hostage clash. NICARAGUA l981-90 Command operation, naval CIA directs exile (Contra) invasions, plants harbor mines against revolution. LEBANON l982-84 Naval, bombing, troops Marines expel PLO and back Phalangists, Navy bombs and shells Muslim positions. GRENADA l983-84 Troops, bombing Invasion four years after revolution. HONDURAS l983-89 Troops Maneuvers help build bases near borders. IRAN l984 Jets Two Iranian jets shot down over Persian Gulf. LIBYA l986 Bombing, naval Air strikes to topple nationalist gov't. BOLIVIA 1986 Troops Army assists raids on cocaine region. IRAN l987-88 Naval, bombing US intervenes on side of Iraq in war. LIBYA 1989 Naval jets Two Libyan jets shot down. VIRGIN ISLANDS 1989 Troops St. Croix Black unrest after storm. PHILIPPINES 1989 Jets Air cover provided for government against coup. PANAMA 1989 (-?) Troops, bombing Nationalist government ousted by 27,000 soldiers, leaders arrested, 2000+ killed. LIBERIA 1990 Troops Foreigners evacuated during civil war. SAUDI ARABIA 1990-91 Troops, jets Iraq countered after invading Kuwait. 540,000 troops also stationed in Oman, Qatar, Bahrain, UAE, Israel. IRAQ 1990-91 Bombing, troops, naval Blockade of Iraqi and Jordanian ports, air strikes; 200,000+ killed in invasion of Iraq and Kuwait; large-scale destruction of Iraqi military. KUWAIT 1991 Naval, bombing, troops Kuwait royal family returned to throne. IRAQ 1991-2003 Bombing, naval No-fly zone over Kurdish north, Shiite south; constant air strikes and naval-enforced economic sanctions LOS ANGELES 1992 Troops Army, Marines deployed against anti-police uprising. SOMALIA 1992-94 Troops, naval, bombing U.S.-led United Nations occupation during civil war; raids against one Mogadishu faction. YUGOSLAVIA 1992-94 Naval NATO blockade of Serbia and Montenegro. BOSNIA 1993-? Jets, bombing No-fly zone patrolled in civil war; downed jets, bombed Serbs. HAITI 1994 Troops, naval Blockade against military government; troops restore President Aristide to office three years after coup. ZAIRE (CONGO) 1996-97 Troops Marines at Rwandan Hutu refugee camps, in area where Congo revolution begins. LIBERIA 1997 Troops Soldiers under fire during evacuation of foreigners. ALBANIA 1997 Troops Soldiers under fire during evacuation of foreigners. SUDAN 1998 Missiles Attack on pharmaceutical plant alleged to be "terrorist" nerve gas plant. AFGHANISTAN 1998 Missiles Attack on former CIA training camps used by Islamic fundamentalist groups alleged to have attacked embassies. IRAQ 1998 Bombing, Missiles Four days of intensive air strikes after weapons inspectors allege Iraqi obstructions. YUGOSLAVIA 1999 Bombing, Missiles Heavy NATO air strikes after Serbia declines to withdraw from Kosovo. NATO occupation of Kosovo. YEMEN 2000 Naval USS Cole, docked in Aden, bombed. MACEDONIA 2001 Troops NATO forces deployed to move and disarm Albanian rebels. UNITED STATES 2001 Jets, naval Reaction to hijacker attacks on New York, DC AFGHANISTAN 2001-? Troops, bombing, missiles Massive U.S. mobilization to overthrow Taliban, hunt Al Qaeda fighters, install Karzai regime, and battle Taliban insurgency. More than 30,000 U.S. troops and numerous private security contractors carry our occupation. YEMEN 2002 Missiles Predator drone missile attack on Al Qaeda, including a US citizen. PHILIPPINES 2002-? Troops, naval Training mission for Philippine military fighting Abu Sayyaf rebels evolves into combat missions in Sulu Archipelago, west of Mindanao. COLOMBIA 2003-? Troops US special forces sent to rebel zone to back up Colombian military protecting oil pipeline. IRAQ 2003-? Troops, naval, bombing, missiles Saddam regime toppled in Baghdad. More than 250,000 U.S. personnel participate in invasion. US and UK forces occupy country and battle Sunni and Shi'ite insurgencies. More than 160,000 troops and numerous private contractors carry out occupation and build large permanent bases. LIBERIA 2003 Troops Brief involvement in peacekeeping force as rebels drove out leader. HAITI 2004-05 Troops, naval Marines land after right-wing rebels oust elected President Aristide, who was advised to leave by Washington. PAKISTAN 2005-? Missiles, bombing, covert operation CIA missile and air strikes and Special Forces raids on alleged Al Qaeda and Taliban refuge villages kill multiple civilians. Drone attacks also on Pakistani Mehsud network. SOMALIA 2006-? Missiles, naval, covert operation Special Forces advise Ethiopian invasion that topples Islamic government; AC-130 strikes and Cruise missile attacks against Islamic rebels; naval blockade against "pirates" and insurgents. SYRIA 2008 Troops Special Forces in helicopter raid 5 miles from Iraq kill 8 Syrian civilians YEMEN 2009 Missiles Cruise missile attack on Al Qaeda kills 49 civilians. LIBYA 2012- ??? - the US has been practicing pacifism.

America has a rather glaring history of being a pacifist nation. Even macho-man Teddy Roosevelt reminded us to "speak softly but carry a big stick." Note that he did NOT say we had to run around wielding it every chance we got. And for the most part, we didn't. Even in "The War to End All Wars" (WWI, which began in 1914) we didn't get involved until sometime in 1917. And then, when the inevitable sequel came (WWII) our official policy was to again stand by on the sidelines. By the time we entered the war in December 1941, Hitler and the Nazis had already swept across Europe; Paris had been occupied; Dunkirk had occurred; the Luftwaffe had been beaten back by the RAF in the Battle for Britain; and the Royal Navy had already found and sunk both the Bismarck and the Graf Spee.

And when we finally *DID* mobilize, we didn't have the latest and greatest equipment *OR* the biggest and best standing army. We pretty much made it up as we went along and used what we did have to the best of our ability. We took kids fresh out of high schools and turned them into fighter and bomber pilots, artillerymen, paratroopers, accurate riflemen, tank commanders, and naval crewmen. Our civilian industries moved to war production, becoming the arsenal to the Allies, with nary a hiccup. And less than four years after the bombs dropped in Hawaii, Germany was crushed, Hitler was dead, and the representatives of the Japanese emperor were on an American battleship -- a battleship that hadn't even been built yet when Yamamoto launched "Operation Z" -- signing unconditional surrender papers based on the efforts of what you insist on denigrating as a rag-tag army.

And that's the same thing that would happen if this so-called "Arctic Invasion" by the Rooskies that you keep obsessing about would ever happen. Yeah, maybe we'd have to take one on the chin, like happened in December 1941 or September 2001, to knock some of the apathy and complacency out of our collective psyche -- but in much the same way as a boxer comes back from a standing eight-count, we'd be even more dangerous than ever.

ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ, y'all.

-"BB"-

dp

R
Re: We can't win

Postby liberty » Tue Dec 04, 2018 2:59 am
Ex, check this out; this guy spent 34 years in the army. If you can’t prove hIm a liar he should know what he is talking about. Blacks are underrepresented in combat arms.

https://foreignpolicy.com/2014/09/18/do ... -commands/
Don’t blame my Army for the lack of black officers in combat commands

You have mis-quoted this every time. OFFICERS, BLACK OFFICERS

There is no evidence that blacks are proportionally underrepresented in combat positions overall and their rates of enlistment are far higher, they enlist at rates far higher than their proportion of the population.

yrs,
rubato

Apparently the village idiot believes he has the right to label her a coward.

Yes, but Anderson is retired now. She was no doubt forced to leave by her white guy handlers to eliminate her as an example of minority excellence in the military. We don't need that shit. It makes too many other good soldiers look bad.

Not to mention...someone even liberty has heard of.

Greasy Shit for Brains is too stupid to realize that I didn’t label any individual a coward. Maybe the infected shit has reached what is left of the turd brain. Blacks are most likely no more cowardly than the rest of the US population, but that is not saying much. Actually they may be less cowardly considering how many of their own people they kill.

rubato wrote:

R
Re: We can't win

Postby liberty » Tue Dec 04, 2018 2:59 am
Ex, check this out; this guy spent 34 years in the army. If you can’t prove hIm a liar he should know what he is talking about. Blacks are underrepresented in combat arms.

https://foreignpolicy.com/2014/09/18/do ... -commands/
Don’t blame my Army for the lack of black officers in combat commands

You have mis-quoted this every time. OFFICERS, BLACK OFFICERS

There is no evidence that blacks are proportionally underrepresented in combat positions overall and their rates of enlistment are far higher, they enlist at rates far higher than their proportion of the population.

yrs,
rubato

This is form the same article. Did you miss it?

"In a previous life I was in a position to observe the intake of initial-entry soldiers into the Army. It became apparent rapidly that minorities of all types and black soldiers, in particular, were underrepresented in combat arms. We instituted an analysis of why and obtained no cogent results"

liberty wrote:Greasy Shit for Brains is too stupid to realize that I didn’t label any individual a coward. Maybe the infected shit has reached what is left of the turd brain. Blacks are most likely no more cowardly than the rest of the US population, but that is not saying much. Actually they may be less cowardly considering how many of their own people they kill.

I never thought I'd ever see someone on this board, not even wesw, who could get their head so far up their own ass that the smell of their own shit would affect their brain to the point that they would post such ludicrous, imbecilic, and just plain fucked-up crap as this.....
but goddamned if liberty didn't manage to do it.

-"BB"-

"obtained no cogent results"

yet another demonstration that he cannot read.

snailgate.

Only if you find libertys resuts cogent.

Blacks are most likely no more cowardly than the rest of the US population

Well, they are certainly less cowardly than the guy who lives here:





ETA:

One thing's for sure...

If the average American is anywhere near as much a coward as the Coward-In-Chief, then if the Russians attack, (or the Belgians, or the Liechtensteiners for that matter) we might as well just go ahead hoist the white flag...

Fortunately, it's highly unlikely that most Americans are that yellow...

Hey hey LBJ how many kids did you kill today. Hey hey ( insert name of future president) how many kids did you kill today. Hell no mother fucker we won’t go. Hell no mother fucker we won’t go. Hell no mother fucker we won’t go. Hell no mother fucker we won’t go.

If we're attacked, where would we have to "go"? That language referred to a fight we had no real stake in (or any exit plan or even a definition of "winning"); just a meat grinder designed to stroke some politicians' egos. So yes, people rightly (at least IMHO) refused to "go".

Big RR wrote:If we're attacked, where would we have to "go"? No we don’t; who cares about artic ice cubes. What would it matter if the Russian had little more ice for thier vodka . Worthless ice is certainly not worth dying over. That language referred to a fight we had no real stake in (or any exit plan or even a definition of "winning"); just a meat grinder designed to stroke some politicians' egos. So yes, people rightly (at least IMHO) refused to "go".

All war is a meat grinder and all politicians have ego except for Reagan and you hated him.

Certainly all politicians have big egos; actors as well and Regan scores on both counts--not sure why you exempted him.

IMHO, there is a big difference in fighting for one's homeland and family and repelling invaders, and in fighting in a country like Vietnam where we had no business being. If you don't see the difference, there is not much more to say, but I couldn't blame anyone for saying Hell no... Many of those, however, would fight for their homes and families.

And FWIW, while I never supported Reagan's policies, I never hated him.

Big RR wrote:Certainly all politicians have big egos; actors as well and Regan scores on both counts--not sure why you exempted him.

IMHO, there is a big difference in fighting for one's homeland and family and repelling invaders, and in fighting in a country like Vietnam where we had no business being. If you don't see the difference, there is not much more to say, but I couldn't blame anyone for saying Hell no... Many of those, however, would fight for their homes and families.

And FWIW, while I never supported Reagan's policies, I never hated him.

And just to make it crystal clear, I don't blame Trump for his sudden convenient case of bone spurs. Had I been up for the draft at that time, I might even have thanked the Lord for giving me that condition. But I do blame him for his enthusiasm for all things military and his dissing of McCain and the four young men who were killed in Niger and the idiotic (being kind here) attitude to Captain Humayan Khan's family. You can support the troops by not sending them off on foreign adventurist missions.

Agree on all points Andy.