Are Shootings Just Routine Now???

[Big RR]

I have to agree with Joe and BSG based on a lot of what I've seen written; some people see the second amendment as the ONLY thing that stands between us and dictatorship, and that we will rapidly sink into a dictatorship once we lose our guns.

I also do think that circumstances vary among the states; I know I (and probably most of us) live in a place where the police can be summoned within minutes, but I do know people who live in areas where the only police are the state police who are an hour or more away. Arming yourself for protection makes a lot more sense in remote areas like that (as does arming oneself to fend off aggressive wildlife as well). I doubt you'd ever be able to convince those people that they could be protected without their weapons.

[Sue U]

I live among the gun zealots, and they truly believe that the federal government is trying to control/manipulate every aspect of their lives, and the ONLY thing standing between them and that fate is their GUNS. The only thing that protects the Constitution is the 2nd Amendment - it means more than any other, because without it, the rest would be revoked by government decree in short order.

Many people would see the repeal of the 2nd amendment as the government taking away the right to defend ourselves and see that as eliminating our ability to protect the other rights that we have.

It very likely would convince a lot of non-gun nuts to become more interested in protecting the right to own firearms.

I have to agree with Joe and BSG based on a lot of what I've seen written; some people see the second amendment as the ONLY thing that stands between us and dictatorship, and that we will rapidly sink into a dictatorship once we lose our guns.

I also do think that circumstances vary among the states; I know I (and probably most of us) live in a place where the police can be summoned within minutes, but I do know people who live in areas where the only police are the state police who are an hour or more away. Arming yourself for protection makes a lot more sense in remote areas like that (as does arming oneself to fend off aggressive wildlife as well). I doubt you'd ever be able to convince those people that they could be protected without their weapons.

I have never been able to understand what it is these idiots think they are "defending" against and how their guns are of any relevance at all. First of all, the idea that owning handguns, shotguns, rifles or even AR-15s is going to somehow fend off "the government" is ludicrous. If "the government" wanted to bring military force to bear against the domestic civilian population (and that premise itself leapfrogs over all the fundamental questions of "why?" and "how?" and especially "WTF????"), do they really think their personal weaponry is going to be in any way effective against Apache gunships and Hellfire missiles, not to mention armored ground forces? Do these morons really think Red Dawn is a documentary?

Moreover, simply repealing the Second Amendment doesn't actually take away anyone's guns; it would only remove the limitations on regulation that the Court has read into the constitutional protection of gun ownership as a guaranteed right, allowing for states and municipalities to treat gun ownership as a regulated privilege instead. So if a city (like mine) wanted to generally ban handguns, it could be done without constitutional violation and years of litigation.

[Big RR]

Do these morons really think Red Dawn is a documentary?

Is that a rhetorical question? I'd bet they do (not a documentary per se, but an example of how an armed populace could ward off tyranny), and you couldn't convince them otherwise.

[Joe Guy]

I have never been able to understand what it is these idiots think they are "defending" against and how their guns are of any relevance at all. First of all, the idea that owning handguns, shotguns, rifles or even AR-15s is going to somehow fend off "the government" is ludicrous.....

Most gun owners probably understand that but it doesn't really matter to them. The constitutional right to gun ownership is the difference between a free country and a police state.

Moreover, simply repealing the Second Amendment doesn't actually take away anyone's guns; it would only remove the limitations on regulation that the Court has read into the constitutional protection of gun ownership as a guaranteed right, allowing for states and municipalities to treat gun ownership as a regulated privilege instead.

Can you imagine the reaction from Palin, Hannity et al. and their minions if Obama were to say that he endorsed the removal of the 2nd amendment?

[BoSoxGal]

Sue, while rational folks may understand and share your perspective regarding the limitations of the individual v. the government, the recent situation in Nevada with Clive Bundy and his militia buddies sending the Feds packing has greatly affirmed the views of the gun nuts.

[Joe Guy]

Just another routine day....

Deputy: Suspect dead in shooting at Oregon school
Updated 10:28 am, Tuesday, June 10, 2014

TROUTDALE, Ore. (AP) — A gunman killed a student at a high school east of Portland Tuesday and the shooter is also dead, police said.

"The student has died. I'm very, very sorry for the family," said Troutdale police chief Scott Anderson.

The Multnomah County sheriff's office said there were reports of shots fired about 8 a.m. at Reynolds High School in Troutdale.

Authorities say they're now focusing on reuniting students with their parents.

Students say they were told over the intercom there was a lockdown and to quietly go to their classrooms.

Students were evacuated from the school, hands on their heads, to be reunited with their parents in a supermarket parking lot.

Freshman Daniel DeLong, 15, said while waiting after the shooting that he saw a physical education teacher at the school with a bloodied shirt.

"I'm a little shaken up," DeLong said. "I'm just worried."

He said he was texting friends to make sure they were all OK.

"It just, like, happened so fast, you know?" he said.

Freshman Morgan Rose, 15, said she was hunkered down in a locker room with another student and two teachers.

"It was scary in the moment now knowing everything's OK I'm better," she said.

Teams were going through the school room by room, KGW-TV reported.

Police set up tape around the area and were not allowing people to pass through. Fire trucks were on the scene.

The shooting follows a spate of recent attacks at or near school campuses.

On June 5, a 19-year-old man was killed and two other people wounded when a gunman opened fire in a building at Seattle Pacific University.

Troutdale is a quiet tourist town of 15,000 near the Columbia River, about 16 miles east of downtown Portland.

source

[Sue U]

Most gun owners probably understand that but it doesn't really matter to them. The constitutional right to gun ownership is the difference between a free country and a police state.

Can you imagine the reaction from Palin, Hannity et al. and their minions if Obama were to say that he endorsed the removal of the 2nd amendment?

Sue, while rational folks may understand and share your perspective regarding the limitations of the individual v. the government, the recent situation in Nevada with Clive Bundy and his militia buddies sending the Feds packing has greatly affirmed the views of the gun nuts.

One of my points is that we shouldn't be letting a tiny minority of extremist gun-fetishists dictate the terms of a national public policy debate, regardless of whether their screaminess is given wildly disproportionate amplification by Fux News. As I said before, the overwhelming majority of the population wants real and effective gun control. Reasonable people can come to reasonable solutions and should not have to cater to lunatics.

[BoSoxGal]

Wow, what a difference of position from the NRA in 80 years!

By the way, if anybody's counting - today's shooting in Oregon is the 74th school shooting in the USA since the Sandy Hook massacre of first-graders and their teachers 18 months ago.

[BoSoxGal]

Interesting article about concealed carry and being 'the good guy with the gun':

http://gawker.com/its-really-hard-to-be ... 1588660306

[Econoline]

Wow. That really was a *GREAT* essay. Thank you for sharing that!

[BoSoxGal]

I stand corrected; it's 79 school shootings since Sandy Hook.

Another very good article on the issue of gun violence in the USA: http://billmoyers.com/2013/05/03/gun-vi ... e-newtown/

[Scooter]

So that is one school shooting every 7 days. Once every week. But no, guns clearly are not the problem.

[BoSoxGal]

There WAS that one kid who stabbed a bunch of kids at his school in PA in April; some were wounded pretty badly (I wasn't able to find an update to see if any of the victims later died).

Still, I'd like us to remove the guns and worry later about whether we'd end up with a spree of school stabbings in their place.

[rubato]

School shootings will be routine as long as the Republican party are whores to the NRA and the gun industry,regard the lives lost as 'by catch', and continue to shift the externalized costs of the shooting sports onto the victims.

yrs,
rubato

[Econoline]

Sue, we don't need a constitutional amendment repealing the 2nd; all we really need is 5 Supreme Court justices with enough sense to realize that a simple declarative sentence which begins "A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free State..." cannot possibly have been intended to PROHIBIT "regulation" of the "militia".

Indeed, that's not very many people needed, and not very much sense needed either.

[Guinevere]

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of our school children." -- Thomas Jefferson (attributed)

[Guinevere]

Interesting article about concealed carry and being 'the good guy with the gun':

http://gawker.com/its-really-hard-to-be ... 1588660306

What are you going to do with your concealed carry permit? Do you carry a gun to work every day, and will you continue to do so?

[Long Run]

Fixed that for you

Sue, we don't need a constitutional amendment repealing the 2nd; all we really need is 5 Supreme Court justices willing to ignore the majority of academic scholarship which is based on the history, purpose and origin of the 2nd Amendment, and hang their conclusion on the introductory clause "A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free State."

Fortunately, while the current majority notes that the 2nd Amendment guarantees personal rights just like the other rights under the Bill of Rights, all of the justices believe that there is room for significant regulation of firearms. The legislature has all of the authority it needs to seriously address gun violence, it just needs to exercise that discretion.

[BoSoxGal]

Guin, it was my intention to get a purse-size .380 or 9mm to carry to work, as my old boss and fellow deputy did. It was their position that the peace officer exception to the prohibition on firearms in the courthouse extends to prosecutors as well, and given that lawyers are sometimes the target of violence in courthouses, I think that's fair.

However, at first after I got my permit, it seemed like I always had something better to spend the money on. Later, as someone who struggles with SAD & recurrent clinical depression, I decided I wasn't sure I wanted to have a firearm around.

I'm glad for that, because after taking opiates for pain for 2-3 weeks following surgery last December, I became profoundly depressed during the withdrawal - so much so that I was thinking a lot like Jarl.

All better now, but I'm still undecided about getting a firearm for protection. The way my office is set up, I would have very little time to react if someone came in wanting to end me. I feel pretty safe at home with a dog who sounds like a pit bull from the other side of the door, plus I live in a place with zero random violence. I don't know what I'll do if I end up moving home to Massachusetts.

[Econoline]

[A]ll of the justices believe that there is room for significant regulation of firearms. The legislature has all of the authority it needs to seriously address gun violence.

Glad to hear that; they sure coulda fooled me.

I guess you (and the SC???) agree with me--and disagree with the NRA--then: regardless of the overall interpretation of the 2nd Amendment, the introductory clause has some meaning, some purpose...and it can't just be ignored or discarded.