Shade balls

[BoSoxGal]

Well I learn something everyday (about that one anyway). Thanks
I do know the reservoirs I have been to (NY city and Pa town water sources) are not chlorinated. As I said, all are full of wildlife.

Actually the Croton reservoir/aqueduct system has apparently been manually chlorinated for many years, at least historically: https://thisdayinwaterhistory.wordpress ... upply-nyc/

I'm still researching for current info.

I think you might be confusing shock chlorination, as in swimming pools and hot tubs, with the much lower levels of chlorine used in reservoirs & tributaries, which is not inconsistent with sustaining higher level amphibious life (chlorine is a naturally occurring substance). It's meant to control microbial crap that makes you sick with giardiasis, etc. if you consume it.

[BoSoxGal]

I don't understand why they are black. If they're black they will absorb more sunlight and heat up more and eventually transfer some of that excess heat to the water underneath.

If the were white they would heat less and I would think be better at reducing evaporation.


yrs,
rubato

Apparently they chose carbon black because any other color would have required dyes that would have potentially leached into the water supply. Some experts have expressed concerns that the absorption of warmth due to the color will eventually lead to increased bacterial growth in the reservoirs, as well as the very evaporation they are seeking to avoid.

[BoSoxGal]

Here's a source addressing current chlorination of the Croton Reservoir system:

Chlorination takes place at multiple locations in the Catskill/Delaware and Croton systems. Croton water is chlorinated at the Croton Lake Gate House to achieve a level of disinfection sufficient to satisfy the Surface Water Treatment Rule (SWTR) in the New Croton aqueduct. Additional chlorine is added at the Jerome Park Reservoir to maintain a residual within the distribution system. Similarly, the Catskill/Delaware system is chlorinated twice prior to the distribution of water into the City. Chlorine is initially added to both the Catskill and Delaware aqueducts as the water leaves Kensico. These chlorine levels are used to determine compliance with the SWTR. Additional chlorine is added to the Catskill aqueduct prior to Hillview downtake chambers to maintain residual levels in the distribution system.

Source: http://www.nap.edu/openbook.php?record_id=9677&page=65

[oldr_n_wsr]

Well I'll be a monkees uncle.
thanks for all that bigskygal. Guess the level is low enough for Reptiles and birds and fish but high enough for those tiny nasties.
I love learning.

[rubato]

I don't understand why they are black. If they're black they will absorb more sunlight and heat up more and eventually transfer some of that excess heat to the water underneath.

If the were white they would heat less and I would think be better at reducing evaporation.


yrs,
rubato

Apparently they chose carbon black because any other color would have required dyes that would have potentially leached into the water supply. Some experts have expressed concerns that the absorption of warmth due to the color will eventually lead to increased bacterial growth in the reservoirs, as well as the very evaporation they are seeking to avoid.

HDPE is sort of off-white and quite stable. No dyes there. And dirt cheap too.



yrs,
rubato

[Big RR]

rubato--that bottle looks pretty thick; I would thing thinner walls would let light through, which is what they are trying to avoid. I would think they'd want the balls as thin as possible to save money. and a think black wall would be more opaque than a thin white one.

[rubato]

rubato--that bottle looks pretty thick; I would thing thinner walls would let light through, which is what they are trying to avoid. I would think they'd want the balls as thin as possible to save money. and a think black wall would be more opaque than a thin white one.

The point is that there are a lot of polymers to choose from which are white, or off-white and cheap. The photo was chosen merely to illustrate that one. Opacity depends on which frequencies are important and can be achieved by either absorbing or reflecting light.

So you have not answered the question, why black? It still appears to be a poor choice.


yrs,
rubato

[Big RR]

Well rubato, I really don't know, but I would surmise it is because they are using a cheap polymer and trying to make it as thin as possible, and use the carbon black as a cheap pigment to prevent light transmission as they are more concerned with visible and UV light entering the reservoir than heat, possibly to prevent bromate formation, possibly because algae photosynthesizes and will not grow without the presence of light (allowing them to keep the chlorine concentration lower and still block algal growth). Also, it could be that white balls might attract water fowl such as geese and ducks to land on the reservoir as it would look like a pond from the air while a darker color might look like land and discourage them from landing on the reservoir. Of course, these are just some reasons why it might be used, but I would think the designers of the balls would have a pretty good idea of what the requirements are, and would have selected the one meeting these requirements at the lowest price.

[BoSoxGal]

Well I'll be a monkees uncle.
thanks for all that bigskygal. Guess the level is low enough for Reptiles and birds and fish but high enough for those tiny nasties.
I love learning.

Me too! I'd be a professional student if it were an option. I try to spend as much time as possible expanding my knowledge base in subjects of interest - and even some that aren't. Keeps the noggin healthy!

[Big RR]

Yep, thanks for the link BSG.

[Gob]

eta: Chlorine has been added to reservoirs in this country since the early 1900s;

I cannot find evidence that it is added to reservoirs? Post reservoirs yes.

[BoSoxGal]

I posted quotes and links to sources; there are dozens more (journal articles, EPA sources, etc.) that I found easily on Google while looking for the sources that I DID post; the article in the WashPo clearly confirms it, too. If you want more, find it yourself. You're just looking to get into pissing matches with me every time I post lately and it's beyond boring.

[Joe Guy]

The reason Shade Balls are black instead of white is because they are shade balls. If they were white, they wouldn't be shade balls.

It's hard to believe that I actually had to tell some people that....

[Gob]

I posted quotes and links to sources; there are dozens more (journal articles, EPA sources, etc.) that I found easily on Google while looking for the sources that I DID post; the article in the WashPo clearly confirms it, too. If you want more, find it yourself. You're just looking to get into pissing matches with me every time I post lately and it's beyond boring.

From your links...

Chlorination takes place at multiple locations in the Catskill/Delaware and Croton systems. Croton water is chlorinated at the Croton Lake Gate House to achieve a level of disinfection sufficient to satisfy the Surface Water Treatment Rule (SWTR) in the New Croton aqueduct. Additional chlorine is added at the Jerome Park Reservoir to maintain a residual within the distribution system. Similarly, the Catskill/Delaware system is chlorinated twice prior to the distribution of water into the City. Chlorine is initially added to both the Catskill and Delaware aqueducts as the water leaves Kensico. These chlorine levels are used to determine compliance with the SWTR. Additional chlorine is added to the Catskill aqueduct prior to Hillview downtake chambers to maintain residual levels in the distribution system.

February 27, 1913: Chlorination of Croton Water Supply, NYC

Neither of which suggest that chlorine is added directly to reservoir waters.

[BoSoxGal]

It's stated very clearly in the WashPo article that discusses the shade balls you posted videos of to start the thread, and the two other sources I provided also confirm that chlorine is added directly to some reservoirs and aqueducts. You just re-quoted the quote I posted which says so clearly. Either you are confused, or more likely just poking at me as you have been for months.

Would you like me to leave your board, Gob? If so, just ask. You kicked me out of the clique some time ago and I'd just like you to have the balls (shaded or not) to come right out and say that now you don't like me anymore you'd prefer I stayed away. So you and the half dozen folks who actually post with any regularity here anymore can have your undisturbed circle jerk.

[Gob]

It's stated very clearly in the WashPo article that discusses the shade balls you posted videos of to start the thread, and the two other sources I provided also confirm that chlorine is added directly to some reservoirs and aqueducts. You just re-quoted the quote I posted which says so clearly. Either you are confused, or more likely just poking at me as you have been for months.

I'd not heard of it, and find it odd that chlorine would be added direct into reservoirs as the water is treated and filtered before delivery. Of the two links you've given one states it is added "at the gate house," which I presumed to be he filtration plant, and the other is about treatments in which were used in 1913.

Would you like me to leave your board, Gob? If so, just ask. You kicked me out of the clique some time ago and I'd just like you to have the balls (shaded or not) to come right out and say that now you don't like me anymore you'd prefer I stayed away. So you and the half dozen folks who actually post with any regularity here anymore can have your undisturbed circle jerk.

Oh grow the fuck up. There is no clique, so please explain how you were "kicked out of it".

[BoSoxGal]

Read the WashPo article. And YOU grow the fuck up; quit following me around sniping after my every post. The other day you attacked me merely for posting about a TV show I called 'life-affirming', which is a well-known phrase in the English language we both speak. You questioned the meaning, just so you could snipe at me. I have no doubt you'd never have posted such drivel had it been LJ or one of your other 'pals' who posted the exact same thing in a thread about fucking TV shows. You're being a fucking wanker and you know it; you just hate being called on it.

Put me on fucking ignore and leave me alone, why don't you? How is this any different from the behavior you lament from rubato?

[Gob]

Read the WashPo article.

Again, the Post article mentions it in passing, and may have been in error. If it's so fucking important to you, why not provide a decent source.

And YOU grow the fuck up; quit following me around sniping after my every post. The other day you attacked me merely for posting about a TV show I called 'life-affirming', which is a well-known phrase in the English language we both speak

You questioned the meaning, just so you could snipe at me. I have no doubt you'd never have posted such drivel had it been LJ or one of your other 'pals' who posted the exact same thing in a thread about fucking TV shows. You're being a fucking wanker and you know it; you just hate being called on it.

A term which I took as just hippy bullshit, something I find an anathema. I post as and when I feel the need or urge, if you think I'm going to have you dictate what and who I can reply to you're out of your tiny brain.

.Put me on fucking ignore and leave me alone, why don't you? How is this any different from the behavior you lament from rubato?

I have no one on ignore, (least of all the person who provides me with so my laughter, rubato.) If you don't want to see what I have to say, then the "ignore" ball is in your court,.

[Lord Jim]

Oh my...

Would you like me to leave your board, Gob? If so, just ask. You kicked me out of the clique some time ago

I have no doubt you'd never have posted such drivel had it been LJ or one of your other 'pals' who posted the exact same thing

Okay, now my ears are burning...


BSG, this reminds me of the post you put up several weeks ago, where you asked me if hanging yourself would make me happy...

(For the record, it wouldn't...)

I would suggest to you, that if you want to go back and review "previous posts" that you review your previous posts over the past few days...

And see if you might see a theme there that appears just the slightest bit paranoid and/or hostile...

[BoSoxGal]

Not paranoid at all; just not terribly tolerant of assholes the older I get and the more precious my time remaining becomes. While there are a half dozen or so posters here who are always enjoyable to read and interact with, there are also a half dozen who thrive on nastiness, and YES, I readily admit that has affected me in a very negative way and I'm sick of being hounded, name-called and called crazy for daring to have my own opinions and confidence in them.

You don't believe the sources I posted, Gob? YOU do the fucking research then! Don't post telling me I'm stupid and wrong just because YOU say so; who the fuck do you think you are, anyway??? As Andrew D said, a screw in a psych ward and nothing more.

I'll miss a few of the folks here, but they don't post much anymore anyway and its not worth tolerating the cuntishness to seek out the occasional gem from Econo, Scooter, Big RR, oldr, Sue . . . and the majority of the nicest folks here don't even hardly post.

I'm sure many of you will be very happy I'm gone again. Enjoy your circle jerk!

PS, now make sure you hurry up and start a thread in which you can post endlessly excoriating me in my absence, as you did for months on end after I departed last time. And you people think I'm nuts???? How fucking messed up does a person have to be to get so much pleasure from denigrating another human being?????